PBA galleries auctioneers new collection 40000+ Every DC 9 9

[woowoo]

On 6/4/2023 at 7:25 PM, Bronty said:

That cover never passed the smell test for me.   It’s crudely drawn, poorly inked, the subject is unusual, etc.   IMO it just doesn’t look or feel right for what it purports to be.

The purple figure has far too many lines for something from 1940 and all at the same line weight ?   In the day of inking with brushes?   It looks like it was inked with a sharpie 😂 
 

So, I have to ask because I never knew or have forgotten - where  did that artwork come from? 

Ian told me on the phone that Matt Nelson put this together for him and from what he knows over the years this is what it would have looked like. I would say he was wrong since a copy did come to Auction on CC. I guess the answer to your question is 

 

[lou_fine]

On 6/4/2023 at 4:19 PM, RareHighGrade said:

Either Double Action 2 or New Adventure 26 is likely the rarest DC.  Because of their perceived rarity and related values, almost all known copies of both issues are slabbed, so the CGC counts of 7 and 8 issues, respectively, are fairly accurate, although there is at least one unslabbed copy of each still out there.

From a purely CGC census standpoint, New Adventure 15 is the least common, with only 2 slabbed Universal copies (4 copies total).

Absolutely love the adventure covers like NA 26 a whole lot more than the earlier "humour" style covers on the earlier pre-hero DC books.  

From reading Gary Carter's pre-hero DC article in either Overstreet 12 or 13, I still remember him pointing out early pre-hero books like New Comics 2, New Fun 2, and the Big Book of Fun comics as possibly being the rarest DC books.  Not sure about the latter two since CGC doesn't grade them but it would appear that New Comcs 2 is tough to find in grade at only 5 Universal copies to date, with the highest being the Billy Wright copy coming in at CGC 2.0.    

BTW:  Big time congrats to you on your stupendous "to die for" Church copy of New Adventure Comics 26.  

[IngelsFan]

On 6/4/2023 at 11:00 PM, lou_fine said:

Absolutely love the adventure covers like NA 26 a whole lot more than the earlier "humour" style covers on the earlier pre-hero DC books.  

From reading Gary Carter's pre-hero DC article in either Overstreet 12 or 13, I still remember him pointing out early pre-hero books like New Comics 2, New Fun 2, and the Big Book of Fun comics as possibly being the rarest DC books.  Not sure about the latter two since CGC doesn't grade them but it would appear that New Comcs 2 is tough to find in grade at only 5 Universal copies to date, with the highest being the Billy Wright copy coming in at CGC 2.0.    

BTW:  Big time congrats to you on your stupendous "to die for" Church copy of New Adventure Comics 26.  

New Comics 2 is one of my favorite early DC covers. First DC Christmas cover, First Federal Men, and pretty tough to find. It’s one that catches my eye anytime it’s up for sale. I know of only 2 copies that aren’t slabbed. One was from Bridwell’s collection, I bought it in 1987 and sold it in 1991. It had about 75% of the cover and was fairly brittle. The other one sold last October on eBay and had a completely split spine. 

[50YrsCollctngCmcs]

On 6/5/2023 at 3:42 PM, IngelsFan said:

New Comics 2 is one of my favorite early DC covers. First DC Christmas cover, First Federal Men, and pretty tough to find. It’s one that catches my eye anytime it’s up for sale. I know of only 2 copies that aren’t slabbed. One was from Bridwell’s collection, I bought it in 1987 and sold it in 1991. It had about 75% of the cover and was fairly brittle. The other one sold last October on eBay and had a completely split spine. 

I assume you mean E. Nelson Bridwell. Do you know if he had an extensive collection of pre-hero DC's?

[tth2]

Deleted because Andy beat me to the punch.

Edited June 5, 2023 by tth2

[tth2]

On 6/5/2023 at 7:19 AM, RareHighGrade said:

Either Double Action 2 or New Adventure 26 is likely the rarest DC.  Because of their perceived rarity and related values, almost all known copies of both issues are slabbed, so the CGC counts of 7 and 8 issues, respectively, are fairly accurate, although there is at least one unslabbed copy of each still out there.

I wonder where those unslabbed copies are. 

[IngelsFan]

On 6/5/2023 at 1:04 AM, 50YrsCollctngCmcs said:

I assume you mean E. Nelson Bridwell. Do you know if he had an extensive collection of pre-hero DC's?

Yes and while there were more pre-hero DC’s than I had ever seen in one place at the time, I’m not sure you’d call it extensive. I was working for Phil Levine at the Atlanta Fantasy Fair the year he bought the collection. I ended up with More Fun 9, 11, 13 and 23, and New Comics 2 and 3. He had New Fun 2-6, and a few other More Funs. Oddly enough there were no New Adventures or early Adventure in the collection.

[aardvark88]

On 6/4/2023 at 7:26 PM, RareHighGrade said:

 The 2-3 known lower grade copies of DA #2 were probably the product of a limited distribution.

Here is a link to raw lower grade Double Action 2 for your reading pleasure. Seems to be made up of reprints from 3 More Funs (including MF #28, 29) but all in black and white. Historical oddity.

[Aman619]

never saw the insides!  pretty nice artwork... I can only imagine how kids reading it would be thrilled by the characters and stories.. as simple as they are to our eyes, they were fresh to theirs.

[sfcityduck]

On 6/5/2023 at 3:46 PM, Aman619 said:

never saw the insides!  pretty nice artwork... I can only imagine how kids reading it would be thrilled by the characters and stories.. as simple as they are to our eyes, they were fresh to theirs.

I would run to buy an O'Mealia Archive.

[aardvark88]

On 6/5/2023 at 3:46 PM, Aman619 said:

 pretty nice artwork... I can only imagine how kids reading it would be thrilled by the characters and stories.. as simple as they are to our eyes, they were fresh to theirs.

At that time (cover date Jan, 1940), the More Fun stories reprinted were about 2 years old. Seemed like a DC test case to see if NY kids would spend 10c on Double Action #2, an all black and white comic with no ads, rather than a color comic with perhaps some black/white/red story art (like More Fun, Detective Comics, Action Comics) with color ads.

[sfcityduck]

On 6/5/2023 at 7:09 PM, aardvark88 said:

At that time (cover date Jan, 1940), the More Fun stories reprinted were about 2 years old. Seemed like a DC test case to see if NY kids would spend 10c on Double Action #2, an all black and white comic with no ads, rather than a color comic with perhaps some black/white/red story art (like More Fun, Detective Comics, Action Comics) with color ads.

Mark Seifert presented a convincing theory on the old thread I linked above:

 

Quote

 

Louis Silberkeit published pulps and magazines under at least a couple different corporate names in his pre-MLJ days, but he used two different brands that are important to us here: Double Action Magazines, and Blue Ribbon Magazines.

 

And a little tangent here -- this was a small world at this point. All these guys knew each other pretty well. Silberkeit and DC "silent partner" Paul Sampliner started out at the same Hearst newspaper. Silberkeit later worked for Sampliner at Eastern.

 

So: when MLJ started using one of Silberkeit's established pulp brands in comics -- Blue Ribbon Comics launched cover-dated Nov '39 -- DC probably saw that as shots fired. MLJ's likely next move was probably obvious.

 

MLJ probably wanted to follow Blue Ribbon with Double Action, and DC knew that but also knew they were in tight spot. This is likely just 4-6 weeks after Ned Pines backed Fawcett off of Thrill (the big picture there is that Pines thought he owned Thrilling as a cover-all brand through an extensive pulp line), so both DC and MLJ probably saw a fight coming.

 

Here's where we get into pure speculation: Why is Double Action #2 (Jan 1940 cover date, fitting our timeline here) the only color-cover ashcan? Based on what I'm seeing here, I think the possibility that they actually tried to do a test distro somewhere is near zero. But here's a good possibility -- DC wanted to show MLJ they were serious about using this mark -- maybe even wanted them to think they WERE using it (hence color cover, and perhaps two issues to show MLJ).

 

However that did actually play out, through the lens of history it looks like the two publishers reached an uneasy accord. DC did not register the trademark or attempt to use it, and MLJ did not use it ON published comics either. 

 

BUT! A couple months later, MLJ did start representing themselves for advertising purposes as... The Double Action Comics Group. They protected the mark but didn't use it as a brand on published comics. Checkmate.

 

Obviously some speculation there, but the verifiable data fits together pretty well (honestly, I think it's at least as supportable as the Fawcett/Pines Thrilling situation).

 

An interesting little footnote to this: Archie attempted to revive the Double Action Comics trademark in 2010. Given that the Silberkeit family has been involved with the company through its entire lifespan, one wonders if someone there still remembers how this all played out.

 

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by sfcityduck

[Bronty]

wow, that's very compelling!

[sfcityduck]

On 6/6/2023 at 6:46 AM, Bronty said:

wow, that's very compelling!

Seifert looked for a DC trademark filing for double action around the time 2 came out and did not find it.  Since that is the only reason to do an ashcan he went with the theory above. But now that we know there was a Double Action 1 the question is whether there was a trademark granted around that time.  If not, then I think that bolsters his theory.  Why would DC test a title for which they did not own the TM?  They would not. But would they print up a few to coerce  an agreement with MLJ? Yeah seems like a good reason. 

Edited June 6, 2023 by sfcityduck

[IngelsFan]

On 6/6/2023 at 7:28 AM, sfcityduck said:

Seifert looked for a DC trademark filing for double action around the time 2 came out and did not find it.  Since that is the only reason to do an ashcan he went with the theory above. But now that we know there was a Double Action 1 the question is whether there was a trademark granted around that time.  If not, then I think that bolsters his theory.  Why would DC test a title for which they did not own the TM?  They would not. But would they print up a few to coerce  an agreement with MLJ? Yeah seems like a good reason. 

Very well-reasoned assertion. If we go with that theory, then what about the outliers? The low graded copies are a mystery. Looking at just the issues that have been graded, we have one 9.4, two 9.2, and one 3.0 for blue labels. The qualified 9.0 is a mystery (maybe a frankenstein cobbled together-that might possibly explain the restored 0.5). Then there are the 5.5 and 0.5 restoreds. I can understand why people WANT it to have been distributed on a newsstand and the existence of lower graded copies would certainly seem to support that assertion (i.e. the ones from the Sol Harrison estate would have been in a file the whole time and should all be roughly the same condition). Now let’s muddy the waters a little more: where did Ian’s copy originate? It isn’t on the census (unless it was slabbed after the only picture of the collection I’ve seen circulating was taken), and it doesn’t appear to be in high grade condition. So, either there were X number of these printed up, never circulated, then at some point given out as souvenirs to visitors at DC’s offices, or they were distributed on at least one newsstand. Maybe one close to MLJ’s offices, so that they would be sure to see them? The offices were 2 1/2 miles apart so that wouldn’t be too difficult…..

We will likely never know for certain but it is fun to theorize.

As extra fuel for pontification, how many copies would have been in that print run?

[aardvark88]

On 6/6/2023 at 8:26 AM, IngelsFan said:

The low graded copies are a mystery. Looking at just the issues that have been graded, we have one 9.4, two 9.2, and one 3.0 for blue labels. The qualified 9.0 is a mystery (maybe a frankenstein cobbled together-that might possibly explain the restored 0.5). Then there are the 5.5 and 0.5 restoreds. I can understand why people WANT it to have been distributed on a newsstand and the existence of lower graded copies would certainly seem to support that assertion

We will likely never know for certain but it is fun to theorize.

As extra fuel for pontification, how many copies would have been in that print run?

Realistically a minimum 1k copy b/w print run with color cover then collated. Returns later pulped for the war effort?

[Bronty]

On 6/6/2023 at 11:40 AM, aardvark88 said:

Realistically a minimum 1k copy b/w print run with color cover then collated. Returns later pulped for the war effort?

Allan,

If all they needed or wanted was 10 copies it seems to me that the minimum order quantity is neither here nor there?    If I want 10 copies but your minimum quantity is 1,000 I can just have 10 printed and pay the rate for 1,000 - you as the printer aren't going to care as long as you get paid.    I might not even want the hassle of dealing with the extra 990 copies if I don't intend to distribute.

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by Bronty

[RareHighGrade]

On 6/6/2023 at 8:26 AM, IngelsFan said:

where did Ian’s copy originate? It isn’t on the census (unless it was slabbed after the only picture of the collection I’ve seen circulating was taken), and it doesn’t appear to be in high grade condition.

Ian de-slabbed all his books, so it's been my assumption that Ian's copy is the de-slabbed 3.0.  Do we have any evidence to the contrary; e.g., that his copy wasn't graded when he bought it?

[Yorick]

On 6/2/2023 at 10:11 PM, tth2 said:

If he manages to sell it for a lot, that'll be great because I've got a zillion copies ready to go!

TAKE.   

Seriously, I want a copy of that faux DA1, and not because of the cover. 

[sfcityduck]

On 6/6/2023 at 8:26 AM, IngelsFan said:

Very well-reasoned assertion. If we go with that theory, then what about the outliers? The low graded copies are a mystery. Looking at just the issues that have been graded, we have one 9.4, two 9.2, and one 3.0 for blue labels. The qualified 9.0 is a mystery (maybe a frankenstein cobbled together-that might possibly explain the restored 0.5). Then there are the 5.5 and 0.5 restoreds. I can understand why people WANT it to have been distributed on a newsstand and the existence of lower graded copies would certainly seem to support that assertion (i.e. the ones from the Sol Harrison estate would have been in a file the whole time and should all be roughly the same condition).

First, the only things we know that came from the Sol Harrison estate were the covers bought by Gary/Moondog and Fischler.  Fischler made a Frankenstein.

Second, we know that the first copy to ever pop up at all, the 1975/1976 copy was in nice shape according to someone who saw it back then for sale.  Could that have come from Harrison?  Maybe.  Or it could have been stolen from DC.  Same for the other high grade copies.  Maybe an early theft and a few years later a more expansive theft.

Third, we don't know where any other copy came from definitively.  Its certainly possible that a copy was given away to a kid visiting the DC offices back in the day. That without a doubt happened with an ashcan. The Double Actions had no legal or other significant to DC, so giving them away would have been no big deal (they just look like failed comics). So the low grade copies could have been in some kids collections and well-loved.