Entry level keys, collectibility, and data 1 1

[twoseezy]

Opening a discussion with full disclosure about all of the nuances of entry-level Golden Age keys is of more importance than has previously been discussed. The cultural importance of these artifacts has never been higher, and modern price points require one to be more discerning about these nuances on what makes the grade. This way, better decisions of value can be assessed. For example, the recent sale of a 0.5 copy of Action Comics #1 at 408k illustrates the importance of discussing all of the nuances of the book that make one copy more valuable than another. Examples include:

    •    Presentable covers vs. cover missing 
    •    Tears to portions of the cover that remove key artwork and trade dressing.
    •    Writings and other obstructions to key artwork and trade dressing.

Many new and old collectors want to own these unrestored grails and this is the best way to help them properly assess purchasing at these levels. At this stage in the hobby, a clear disclosure and discourse of how entry-level grades are valued by collectors is more important than ever. Informational tools such as the CGC census, paid sales data websites such as GPA, and forums like ours that identify the nuances of defects and desirability of the structural presentation of the book are very important, especially with entry-grade copies.  

It has come to my attention that a coverless copy of Action #1 was given the 0.5 grade designation back in 2003. Let's discuss it!

[AJD]

On 9/19/2023 at 10:33 AM, twoseezy said:

It has come to my attention that a coverless copy of Action #1 was given the 0.5 grade designation back in 2003. Let's discuss it!

There's nothing to discuss. That was standard practice until 2008, when the NG designation was introduced for coverless and substantially incomplete books.

[twoseezy]

On 9/18/2023 at 6:47 PM, AJD said:

There's nothing to discuss. That was standard practice until 2008, when the NG designation was introduced for coverless and substantially incomplete books

Many coverless books have received 0.5 grades over the last few years. 

[LDarkseid1]

On 9/18/2023 at 7:19 PM, twoseezy said:

Many coverless books have received 0.5 grades over the last few years. 

Do you have any examples?

[twoseezy]

On 9/18/2023 at 11:22 PM, LDarkseid1 said:

Do you have any examples?

Here are a few that I found in new holders:

 

[Superman2006]

From what I've seen CGC has consistently given 0.5s to comics missing either the front or back cover that are otherwise complete.

[LDarkseid1]

On 9/19/2023 at 8:16 AM, twoseezy said:

Here are a few that I found in new holders:

 

Well both of those have back covers and are not fully coverless. That’s why they’re .5’s. The only reason I asked is because I personally at least have not seen any fully coverless .5’s in a looonnnnggg time. I believe what the other person said of them changing that setup back in 2008 with the advent of the NG grade would make sense. So when you said you’ve seen many in the last few years I was genuinely just curious to see a few. Those don’t qualify though as they still have back covers.

[waaaghboss]

I feel like the first post is trying to sell me a time share.

[twoseezy]

The key element of a book in terms of recognition is the front cover. For CGC to assign a 0.5 grade to a book with a fully intact front cover and the same grade to a book that is completely missing its front cover is unjustifiable. 

As a collecting community, evidence states that it is important for us to point out grading inconsistencies so that those who are grading books for us have an agreed-upon methodology for doing so. In this case, it is very clear that a book with a front cover should be seen as superior to one that has no front cover, yet still has a back cover.

Example:

CGC Cert # 0118834001 Grade: 0.5
COVERLESS/INCOMPLETE
Label Text: COVERLESS. CENTERFOLD MISSING, DOES NOT AFFECT STORY. INCOMPLETE. Grader Notes: Interior Centerfold Missing Staple Lite Rusted Whole Book Water Damage Through Book

Should CGC change its census report to state that one of the existing 0.5 grades is a “COVERLESS” copy?

Going forward, Should CGC have a new line time “0.5 NO COVER” on the census for books without the front cover? 

Otherwise, if there is no sales data on any of the paid websites such GPA, Go Collect, etc. a savvy collector has no way of knowing if the entry-grade copies have existing covers. The existence of a front cover is of monumental value and importance compared to the ones without it. This completely warrants a notation on the CGC census. As the non-existence of a front cover often leads to an NG grade, putting this notation is of great importance for full disclosure and awareness to collectors looking to acquire entry-level unrestored key books. The knowledge of which books are visually recognizable because of them having their front cover is a critical thing to consider when investing in these rarities.

[Cat-Man_America]

On 9/19/2023 at 6:52 PM, twoseezy said:

The key element of a book in terms of recognition is the front cover. For CGC to assign a 0.5 grade to a book with a fully intact front cover and the same grade to a book that is completely missing its front cover is unjustifiable. 

As a collecting community, evidence states that it is important for us to point out grading inconsistencies so that those who are grading books for us have an agreed-upon methodology for doing so. In this case, it is very clear that a book with a front cover should be seen as superior to one that has no front cover, yet still has a back cover.

Example:

CGC Cert # 0118834001 Grade: 0.5
COVERLESS/INCOMPLETE
Label Text: COVERLESS. CENTERFOLD MISSING, DOES NOT AFFECT STORY. INCOMPLETE. Grader Notes: Interior Centerfold Missing Staple Lite Rusted Whole Book Water Damage Through Book

Should CGC change its census report to state that one of the existing 0.5 grades is a “COVERLESS” copy?

Going forward, Should CGC have a new line time “0.5 NO COVER” on the census for books without the front cover? 

Otherwise, if there is no sales data on any of the paid websites such GPA, Go Collect, etc. a savvy collector has no way of knowing if the entry-grade copies have existing covers. The existence of a front cover is of monumental value and importance compared to the ones without it. This completely warrants a notation on the CGC census. As the non-existence of a front cover often leads to an NG grade, putting this notation is of great importance for full disclosure and awareness to collectors looking to acquire entry-level unrestored key books. The knowledge of which books are visually recognizable because of them having their front cover is a critical thing to consider when investing in these rarities.

It's a conundrum. Why would anyone require an entry level key if the front door is missing? 

[Semicentennial]

On 9/19/2023 at 4:52 PM, twoseezy said:

The key element of a book in terms of recognition is the front cover. For CGC to assign a 0.5 grade to a book with a fully intact front cover and the same grade to a book that is completely missing its front cover is unjustifiable. 

The knowledge of which books are visually recognizable because of them having their front cover is a critical thing to consider when investing in these rarities.

I'm pretty sure if I were to buy a .5 graded book, I'm going to be looking at the book and not the census to determine if I want the book or not.  Of course, whether or not it has a cover will definitely be factored in when I decide on a price I'm comfortable with.  I buy books based on how much I want it considering the defects.  

Why not break-out defects on 9.8's such as if the book is centered or not? 

[LDarkseid1]

I’m soo confused. I’m still waiting to see the abundance of CGC .5’s that have been graded the last few years and are purportedly completely coverless. When that day comes, my eyes will be opened. Front or back, a cover is a cover. There’s nothing unjustifiable about a book with a back cover and no front cover getting a CGC .5.

Edited September 20, 2023 by LDarkseid1

[fishbone]

On 9/20/2023 at 1:53 AM, LDarkseid1 said:

I’m soo confused. I’m still waiting to see the abundance of CGC .5’s that have been graded the last few years and are purportedly completely coverless. When that day comes, my eyes will be opened. Front or back, a cover is a cover. There’s nothing unjustifiable about a book with a back cover and no front cover getting a CGC .5.

I agree - what is this thread actually about ? I'm confused - if I wanted to drop $408K on a book, I can see it (auction houses actually show and fully describe the book). Plus, there are NO 0.5 comics that are completely coverless as far as I know (and others here know) ......

But the bottom line is you HAVE to see and know everything about a book if your are even spending hundreds on a book, let alone thousands ...

 

[Marty Mann]

Graded .RESTORED due to small amount of color touch on cover?  Requested location of color touch...

no response.  Might be for BLUE INK used for remainder copies.

[Yorick]

On 9/20/2023 at 11:35 AM, Marty Mann said:

Graded .RESTORED due to small amount of color touch on cover?  Requested location of color touch...

no response.  Might be for BLUE INK used for remainder copies.

 

Certainly a strange grade.  I have a few purple label books that have a stray pen mark or spot of paint that clearly do not cover a defect.  When someone writes their name on a book, is THAT restoration?

Personally, I am happy that many collectors are turned off by the Purple Label.  I've been able to acquire very rare books that would be out of my price range if they were "unrestored".  That's how I get my "entry level keys".

[fifties]

I too am not sure what the OP's point is.  If I like a book, I'll bid on it, with the condition factored in to determine how much I'm willing to pay for it.  CGC has graded books with "slightly brittle pages" as high as 3.5 (flying in the face of Overstreet guidelines which would assign it no better than Fair), as they give heavy emphasis to just the covers.

Once I receive it, the plastic slab goes into the recycle bin, as I buy to collect and read.  Not really interested in market value as they ALL are keepers, unless I can upgrade.

[Telegan]

On 9/20/2023 at 1:54 PM, Yorick said:

Certainly a strange grade.  I have a few purple label books that have a stray pen mark or spot of paint that clearly do not cover a defect.  When someone writes their name on a book, is THAT restoration?

Personally, I am happy that many collectors are turned off by the Purple Label.  I've been able to acquire very rare books that would be out of my price range if they were "unrestored".  That's how I get my "entry level keys".

I don't actively look for purple label books, but I've always found it humorous that a book with color touch gets a purple label thereby probably drastically reducing its value, but if you carve the color touch out such that the book looks like swiss cheese or just rip the cover off and throw it in the trash, it can get a blue label, and it becomes "ok to collect".  In this regard, I'm not sure I blame the CGC, but rather the consumer for creating this monster. lol.

I've even thought about actively looking for good deals on purple label books lately.

[10centcomics]

On 9/20/2023 at 11:38 PM, Telegan said:

I don't actively look for purple label books, but I've always found it humorous that a book with color touch gets a purple label thereby probably drastically reducing its value, but if you carve the color touch out such that the book looks like swiss cheese or just rip the cover off and throw it in the trash, it can get a blue label, and it becomes "ok to collect".  In this regard, I'm not sure I blame the CGC, but rather the consumer for creating this monster. lol.

I've even thought about actively looking for good deals on purple label books lately.

If CGC did away with different color labels for books and simply just listed defects and any restoration work on a standardized label, I bet restored books wouldn't be hit with as drastic a value reduction. 

And yes I wish everyone would stop the practice of scraping off CT. CGC should not "reward" this behavior with blue labels.

[LDarkseid1]

On 9/20/2023 at 11:54 AM, Yorick said:

Certainly a strange grade.  I have a few purple label books that have a stray pen mark or spot of paint that clearly do not cover a defect.  When someone writes their name on a book, is THAT restoration?

Personally, I am happy that many collectors are turned off by the Purple Label.  I've been able to acquire very rare books that would be out of my price range if they were "unrestored".  That's how I get my "entry level keys".

No, that’s not resto.

[LDarkseid1]

On 9/20/2023 at 8:38 PM, Telegan said:

I don't actively look for purple label books, but I've always found it humorous that a book with color touch gets a purple label thereby probably drastically reducing its value, but if you carve the color touch out such that the book looks like swiss cheese or just rip the cover off and throw it in the trash, it can get a blue label, and it becomes "ok to collect".  In this regard, I'm not sure I blame the CGC, but rather the consumer for creating this monster. lol.

I've even thought about actively looking for good deals on purple label books lately.

You can take the word “probably” out of that statement. It does simply drastically reduce the value, no probably lol. Well, the price reduction will of course depend on the level of color touch, but there will be a solid price reduction regardless.

As far as resto removal goes, I agree sometimes it can be a bit crude looking. Cutting off areas to remove the CT, because it can’t be scraped off. But my feelings is to each their own in that instance. I wouldn’t buy a book personally that has that weird look to it when parts have obviously been cut to remove CT, but if thats someone’s jam then go for it. I definitely don’t blame someone for doing it though. I mean I get the obvious intention.