ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[DC#]

On 12/20/2023 at 9:05 AM, GDN said:

Not likely we will see this guy reappear on eBay anytime soon.  I'd be on the lookout on other selling sites for MJ copies of SW8, X266, IH340.

The seller pulled IH340 MJ shortly after the initial IG post by 9.9newstand.  He pulled a lot of other listings.  When I first checked his page when this first happened he had a nice list of MJ and 9.8 newsstands for sale.  He removed all but the X266 and SW8 up till last night.  He pulled the X266 while the DaveAvengers/9.9Newstand YT show was going on.  It had a whole bunch of retracted bids before it was pulled.  Someone in the chat for that show claimed they were willing to take a strike on their eBay account and were bidding the SW8 up high with no intention to pay.  Not sure if that guy was just joking or was the guy who bid up to $21K before the seller pulled the listing with 30mins to go.

His store is definitely empty now - even some Superman item that was available alongside X266 and SW8 yesterday.    Kudos to many people in this community for being so alert and helping to protect the rest of us.   

[GDN]

Someone mentioned this earlier but take a look at the bid history for the X266MJ, ASM252MJ and SW8MJ....notice a certain "316" feedback bidder always driving up the price?  Yeah....this guy is scamming from every direction.

[Stefan_W]

On 12/20/2023 at 12:05 PM, GDN said:

Not likely we will see this guy reappear on eBay anytime soon.  I'd be on the lookout on other selling sites for MJ copies of SW8, X266, IH340.

The seller pulled IH340 MJ shortly after the initial IG post by 9.9newstand.  He pulled a lot of other listings.  When I first checked his page when this first happened he had a nice list of MJ and 9.8 newsstands for sale.  He removed all but the X266 and SW8 up till last night.  He pulled the X266 while the DaveAvengers/9.9Newstand YT show was going on.  It had a whole bunch of retracted bids before it was pulled.  Someone in the chat for that show claimed they were willing to take a strike on their eBay account and were bidding the SW8 up high with no intention to pay.  Not sure if that guy was just joking or was the guy who bid up to $21K before the seller pulled the listing with 30mins to go.

Unfortunately, nothing really prevents scammers from setting up new accounts on Ebay and lather/rinse/repeat. I have seen the same scams under multiple accounts there many times. He could also move books to different forums or even auction houses and trickle them through a book or two at a time while flying under the radar. 

I am pretty sure that the only thing that would prevent it entirely would be to have the criminal justice system involved and sniffing around him. 

Edited December 20, 2023 by Stefan_W

[migmtl76]

On 12/20/2023 at 1:29 AM, Comics said:

I find the "quality control is hard - give them a break" comments odd. This is what they do. They encapsulate and verify Billions of dollars worth of collectibles. Their quality control should be JUST UNDER what NASA's is. Especially if we find there is a lax QC system in place and someone realized this and decided to Game it. Repeatedly. Class Action lawsuits have been started for much less than this. At the very least, what is to stop me from requesting a FREE re-evaluation of all my slabs to make sure they are 'right'? This is a big, big problem. In certification - reputation is everything.

The new case help prevent newton rings but is easy to open without cracking the plastic. If some person figures out how to reseal it than CGC needs to change the case so it can't be tampered with. I used to not be able to open a case without visibly cracking and damaging the case. This is not the case (pun intended) no more...

Edited December 20, 2023 by migmtl76

[Stefan_W]

On 12/20/2023 at 12:36 PM, GDN said:

Someone mentioned this earlier but take a look at the bid history for the X266MJ, ASM252MJ and SW8MJ....notice a certain "316" feedback bidder always driving up the price?  Yeah....this guy is scamming from every direction.

Looking at this completely objectively (or as objectively as I can) it is really tough to prove that shill bidding is happening. They are all MJ insert books so that 316 feedback bidder may just be a collector who struck out three times on big MJ grails. Dont get me wrong, I definitely believe what you are saying is true. I am just pointing out that I am about 80% sure of the shill bidding rather than 99%+ sure something funky is going on like with the other parts of this story. 

[Mutant Manatee]

On 12/20/2023 at 11:36 AM, GDN said:

Someone mentioned this earlier but take a look at the bid history for the X266MJ, ASM252MJ and SW8MJ....notice a certain "316" feedback bidder always driving up the price?  Yeah....this guy is scamming from every direction.

 

Are the bid restractions also from the (316) bidder?  If so, that greatly increases the odds that there is shill bidding going on.

[Mikey C]

On 12/20/2023 at 12:36 PM, GDN said:

Someone mentioned this earlier but take a look at the bid history for the X266MJ, ASM252MJ and SW8MJ....notice a certain "316" feedback bidder always driving up the price?  Yeah....this guy is scamming from every direction.

The 316 bidder was the one who just left negative feedback on the seller’s eBay page (and seems to be the buyer of the NM98 9.6 MJ from late October). 

[comicwiz]

On 12/20/2023 at 12:36 PM, GDN said:

Someone mentioned this earlier but take a look at the bid history for the X266MJ, ASM252MJ and SW8MJ....notice a certain "316" feedback bidder always driving up the price?  Yeah....this guy is scamming from every direction.

Every which way but loose.

Edited January 5 by comicwiz

[OJ Pimpson]

The fact that CGC has yet to even acknowledge that they are aware of someone potentially defrauding the system and that they are investigating, suggests, to me at least, that they have uncovered a lot more fraud by this account and potentially others. They may want to announce a new more secure slab and/or a series of new security policies along side an admission that they were duped to soften the PR blow

[WolverineX]

On 12/20/2023 at 1:37 PM, Mikey C said:

The 316 bidder was the one who just left negative feedback on the seller’s eBay page (and seems to be the buyer of the NM98 9.6 MJ from late October). 

fascinating.  

[WolverineX]

this story is better than the wife stealer thread from last year. ..

[KatComics]

On 12/20/2023 at 1:46 PM, Hot Nickels said:

The fact that CGC has yet to even acknowledge that they are aware of someone potentially defrauding the system and that they are investigating, suggests, to me at least, that they have uncovered a lot more fraud by this account and potentially others. They may want to announce a new more secure slab and/or a series of new security policies along side an admission that they were duped to soften the PR blow

Oooo...more secure slab...return to creep engine??

[KatComics]

On 12/20/2023 at 9:50 AM, Silver Surfer said:

Waiting for an announcement that there will be a pause in reholdering. Not sure how they are going to deal with this for any existing inventory that needs to be processed. 

no pause will ever come - they have %'s to hit monthly and quarterly to appease the masters - and FYI, the masters are not the customers

[Stefan_W]

On 12/20/2023 at 2:00 PM, KatComics said:

Oooo...more secure slab...return to creep engine??

They can fix the issue by putting the label in the same inner sheath as the comic like you see in some designs. The trouble is that this will not work with their current outer slab design so they would have re-work it all. 

[Silver Surfer]

They can just line the inner slab with a seal. If it’s broken then it can be rejected. Just think of all the 9.6 books potentially inserted into 9.8 slabs.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Silver Surfer

[MAR1979]

On 12/20/2023 at 1:05 PM, Stefan_W said:

 

I am pretty sure that the only thing that would prevent it entirely would be to have the criminal justice system involved and sniffing around him. 

That is more unlikely than CGC allocating even a single thin dime to investigate.

[Jim Doerfler]

In full transparency, I'm listing a SW8 CGC 9.8 MJ on eBay tonight on auction.  I recently purchased the book from its original owner for an incredible deal.  Graded in 2020.  Had no idea that it was worth so much as there were no sales on GPA when I bought it. 

I'm here on the forums and on Instagram if there are questions about the book and its authenticity (@doerf_mn).

[jsilverjanet]

On 12/20/2023 at 4:59 AM, sledgehammer said:

That doesn't mean some grunt doing re holders isn't going to be lazy, or going to have Roy's eye to look it over for reasons why the comic book in the slab is not a 9.8.

I'm pretty confident that the grunt is not trained to grade, just to reholder, so he doesn't question it. Further I'll go out on a limb and he has zero instructions on when he should not reholder the book (if xyz exists, then book should not be reholdered due to tampering)

If there's anything CGC has proven in the past 3 years is that it's QC is not robust, full of holes with the goal to process quickly (or as best as they can)

whether we are talking about labeling, grading or even sealed books (wasn't there a post once about someone receiving books that the case was not sealed)

[GDN]

On 12/20/2023 at 10:37 AM, Mikey C said:

The 316 bidder was the one who just left negative feedback on the seller’s eBay page (and seems to be the buyer of the NM98 9.6 MJ from late October). 

Ah...that is interesting.  He was in the chat on the DaveAvengers/9.9Newstand YT vid last night.  He mentioned he was in discussion with the seller because of the 9.6 NM98.  So maybe he isn't shill bidding and just an avid MJ collector.

[Stefan_W]

On 12/20/2023 at 2:16 PM, MAR1979 said:

That is more unlikely than CGC allocating even a single thin dime to investigate.

Why? It is fraud which is a criminal offence.