ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[HighGrade]

On 1/4/2024 at 5:37 PM, darkstar said:

From the submission below the only cert on the list is 4277700004. Why? 

4277700004    asm 252
4277700001    spider-man 1
4277700002    asm 252
4277700003    asm 252
4277700005    killing joke
4277700006    batman 442

That Batman 442 in 9.0 is not even a 442, it's a actually #436 look at the picture with the cert. why was that even graded, unless maybe it was a 436 reprint that sold for high amounts, I guess it got mislabeled, but never sent back to correct. That's just weird all the way around.

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 1/5/2024 at 8:25 PM, HighGrade said:

That Batman 442 in 9.0 is not even a 442, it's a actually #436 look at the picture with the cert. why was that even graded, unless maybe it was a 436 reprint that sold for high amounts, I guess it got mislabeled, but never sent back to correct. That's just weird all the way around.

Or maybe this is just an instance where he swapped the book just to see if CGC would even catch something so obvious.  Which obviously they did not.

Either way this one needs to be recalled and fixed. 

[gmasstermcd]

On 1/5/2024 at 9:25 PM, HighGrade said:

That Batman 442 in 9.0 is not even a 442, it's a actually #436 look at the picture with the cert. why was that even graded, unless maybe it was a 436 reprint that sold for high amounts, I guess it got mislabeled, but never sent back to correct. That's just weird all the way around.

Oh probably because the inside guy did it on purpose to allow the scammer to save on shipping by bundling reholders with that book as a mechanical error.

[HighGrade]

On 1/5/2024 at 9:32 PM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

Or maybe this is just an instance where he swapped the book just to see if CGC would even catch something so obvious.  Which obviously they did not.

Either way this one needs to be recalled and fixed. 

That's just it, why hasn't been sent back? And why was it submitted to begin with, I'm guessing he just wanted it in a fresh inner well to swap into a 9.8. Still odd situation but that's maybe why it was never corrected.

[360flip]

On 1/4/2024 at 2:37 PM, darkstar said:

From the submission below the only cert on the list is 4277700004. Why? 

4277700004    asm 252
4277700001    spider-man 1
4277700002    asm 252
4277700003    asm 252
4277700005    killing joke
4277700006    batman 442

There are at least 25 books in this 4277700 submission. I don't think it was a briva3 submission as the majority of the books aren't his general pattern. He just got the 9.8 from the 4277700004 and swapped out the book and resubmitted for custom label.

[360flip]

4277700006 and 4277700007 are 436 in 442 slabs

4277700008 and 4277700009 are 442 in 436 slabs

I think the grader just got them mixed up

Edited January 6 by 360flip

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 1/5/2024 at 9:22 PM, 360flip said:

4277700006 and 4277700007 are 436 in 442 slabs

4277700008 and 4277700009 are 442 in 436 slabs

I think the grader just got them mixed up

CGC 

[BlancoBros]

On 1/5/2024 at 3:11 PM, comicwiz said:

And there's certainly older. That first book on the "impacted" list was sold by zaneglor in 2016.

What if the list of 350, is just a sampler?
A lil bit of everything that has gone thru Briva3 hands. From 2016 and up.
We got signature series, submissions, reholdering, etc.

Maybe they are doing it to determine what year the scam started. Also ruling out things like, was he swapping signature series books?

 

On 1/5/2024 at 3:23 PM, LordRahl said:

If there are 270 Qualified IH 181's out there sitting in Blue slabs, and this book is frequently CPR'd, you don't think someone would have stumbled on one of them by now when they cracked it and sent it in? That goes for every book on the list that isn't a 9.8, so far more than 270 total books. 

 

A lot of people don't like taking chances doing cpr a pricey book. It's risky. Especially if it looks like it was pressed already?
What if you get a grade drop?
Briva3 was banking on that. The customer would just be happy with the grade of the book.

Like it was mentioned, one or two were opened. And they can simply be written off as, maybe cgc "missed it". We've seen the many many slabbing errors. It would just be another laughing point on the boards.
Similar to that IH181 book Bry was talking about on his channel a month or so ago. It was a blue label that was opened and found to be missing the MVS.

Edited January 6 by BlancoBros

[HighGrade]

On 1/5/2024 at 10:05 PM, 360flip said:

There are at least 25 books in this 4277700 submission. I don't think it was a briva3 submission as the majority of the books aren't his general pattern. He just got the 9.8 from the 4277700004 and swapped out the book and resubmitted for custom label.

OK, got it, he is probably not even submitter to many of these submissions since the cert number would not change, heck anyone could be linked to these submissions if he purchased said book and the sent for reholder that cert stays with the original submission number.

That explains a lot, everyone saying hey why isn't this book on the list too, why don't they put all these books on from this sub...because it's not his submission just the book he purchased.

 

[drotto]

On 1/5/2024 at 3:20 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Why submit the green label 181?

He needs the inner well if the books was bought raw.

[BrashL]

The silence from CGC on what’s actually going on is deafening. The list they released just created more questions. 

[maz25]

On 1/5/2024 at 1:31 PM, paqart said:

I disagree. True, they are currently wasting resources doing what appear to be illegal things, but a case like this would help nullify the bad image they've developed of late, and it would be a fairly easy win for them.

I agree to disagree.  That "bad image", in other words, credibility, has been completely nuked over the previous 8 years.  

[paqart]

On 1/6/2024 at 1:03 AM, maz25 said:

I agree to disagree.  That "bad image", in other words, credibility, has been completely nuked over the previous 8 years.  

I'm not saying they can actually fix their image. I agree with you there. It's unrecoverable at this point. However, from their perspective, a normal case where they do their real job, like this CGC fraud, is the kind of thing their PR people might think would help their image. Again, I agree it is doubtful it would work, but I think they would do it anyway both because it is their job and they need every particle of good publicity they can get.

[Iconic1s]

On 1/5/2024 at 5:32 PM, Nick Furious said:

I agree, and for this very reason I think that CGC completely owns every bit of this until they name names.  The full extent of the perp's activities deserves scrutiny.  If CGC doesn't facilitate that by naming him, I will then assume that there is something bigger being kept under wraps.  

I hope that CGC isn’t naming names because they are taking this as seriously as they should be.  Working with law investigators and law enforcement to make sure they can bring the most serious charges possible.  If some sleuth drops a name that’s one thing, but maybe if CGC drops names too soon it compromises the case.

At least this is what I am hoping. 

[Iconic1s]

On 1/5/2024 at 5:42 PM, HighGrade said:

I still firmly stand by the fact that any attempt to swap and reseal will be noticeable if you look, and CGC should be talking about that fact that there will be signs of tampering.  Maybe they fear saying that plain and simple an employee just did not checked well enough on cracked holders would be worse for them, but eaving this "you can easily swap and reseal good enough to fool CGC themselves is hurting MUCH more than just admitting a "bad" employee did not do his job on cracked holders would be better.

Agree with this 100%.  The case is supposed to be “tamper evident” but evidently either, it is NOT tamper evident… which would be a really BIG problem OR they, meaning CGC, just weren’t checking for the evidence of the tampering.

[LordRahl]

On 1/5/2024 at 5:10 PM, wiparker824 said:

I understand what you are saying but I’m not sure even if I cracked a slab for CPR after buying from the scammer that I’d have been instantly thinking I got scammed. I’ve spent too much time in the CGC Quality Control thread to know they mislabel books at a regular enough rate that I’d just assume I got unlucky and they mislabeled a book I bought. The only way I’d be suspicious is if I bought several books from that seller on eBay and then attempted CPR on all of them and they all came back as qualified, restored, missing things, etc. Then it’s no longer conceivable to be coincidence with that many book from one source. But one book? No, it wouldn’t be my first thought to think I was scammed. But that’s just me.

You're conflating two different things here. A mislabel which wasn't caught by QC and a book missing the MVS and that not being caught by the graders. In the former (a QC mislabel issue) the graders notes will identify that the book is missing the MVS. In the latter, CGC missed that the MVS is missing. The former happens with some regularity, the latter... well I'm not going to say it's never happened but the likelihood is extremely low.

[godzilla43]

On 1/6/2024 at 7:23 AM, drotto said:

He needs the inner well if the books was bought raw.

Yes, but he is also a creature of habit. I believe there is also CGC books that have swapped books which also have fake inner wells. Also there are CGC books that does not have any inner wells.

Edited January 6 by godzilla43

[shadroch]

On 1/5/2024 at 1:43 PM, LordRahl said:

He isn't going to say anything of any actual worth. "Pssst... I know something and it's HUGE" but never actually divulges what that something is so as to not be taken to task for it when it's proven incorrect.

I have nothing of worth to add. If you want to go with perp rather than perps, feel free.  I don't know anything huge.  I know what I've read in various places, but don't know how much is accurate. I don't know how big this is, and I can't hazard a guess about the numbers.  I don't know what I posted that gave you any other impression. 

[shadroch]

On 1/5/2024 at 6:03 PM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

It was brought up a few times even  before I said it, but has been lost in the shuffle

Just seems to keep getting glossed over. 

Danny lived in Floral Park or Little Neck, right on the Nassau Border.  He's about ten miles from Forest Hills.      

Edited January 6 by shadroch

[waaaghboss]

On 1/5/2024 at 10:18 PM, Iconic1s said:

I hope that CGC isn’t naming names because they are taking this as seriously as they should be.  Working with law investigators and law enforcement to make sure they can bring the most serious charges possible.  If some sleuth drops a name that’s one thing, but maybe if CGC drops names too soon it compromises the case.

At least this is what I am hoping.