• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC
50 50

Started by spidermanbeyond,

9,029 posts in this topic

Chip Cataldo

Chip Cataldo

Posted
Posted
On 1/13/2024 at 7:13 PM, agamoto said:

Ok, cool, you keep believing that. I'll just ignore your future comments. 

Ignoring reality, you mean. Keep shouting against the wind, sir. It's amusing to watch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
agamoto

agamoto

Posted
Posted
On 1/13/2024 at 4:10 PM, sledgehammer said:

I came across two ASM 129's recently. One of them was a 9.6 and the other one was a 9.8.

In each of their graders notes, it says slight crushing of spine. 

 

These were briva3/Zaneglor submissions? Speaking of grader's notes, I noticed when I was poring through the notes on all the books in the list, I was surprised how many of the notes had the exact same wording.

For example, the 9.8 ASM 194's have the sole grader's note "very light spine stress lines to cover" 17 times. 

Further to that, there are 3 more 9.8's that also say "very light spine stress lines to cover" followed by "breaks color" 3 more times. 

Still 9.8's

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dr. Love

Dr. Love

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 1/11/2024 at 11:34 AM, agamoto said:

It reminds me of what Mike Nelson once said about the best restoration he's ever seen, and that's the restoration they didn't catch. 

Have you tried reaching out to Mike Nelson about your concerns?

Edited by Dr. Love
Link to comment
Share on other sites
comicjel

comicjel

Posted
Posted
On 1/13/2024 at 7:11 PM, Domo Arigato said:

That's how it was eventually.....but there was a time before that where it wasn't so clear cut.

 

If there was ever a case study about the pros and cons of pressing books, the 9.8 Curator ASM #1 that just sold on Heritage would be Exhibit #1 - I have seen that book "evolve" over time - I guess it's a good thing!?! - certainly to the one who had it bumped from 9.6 to 9.8!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Domo Arigato

Domo Arigato

Posted
Posted
On 1/13/2024 at 6:34 PM, comicjel said:

If there was ever a case study about the pros and cons of pressing books, the 9.8 Curator ASM #1 that just sold on Heritage would be Exhibit #1 - I have seen that book "evolve" over time - I guess it's a good thing!?! - certainly to the one who had it bumped from 9.6 to 9.8!

Always makes me wonder who has the cajones to crack and press a book like that. 

Wouldn't take much for it to drop in grade.  Slightest handling mishap.......grading the day after a CGC graders bachelor party........etc.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dark Knight

Dark Knight

Posted
Posted
On 1/13/2024 at 4:31 PM, Dr. Love said:
On 1/11/2024 at 11:34 AM, agamoto said:

It reminds me of what Mike Nelson once said about the best restoration he's ever seen, and that's the restoration they didn't catch. 

Have you tried reaching out to Mike Nelson about your concerns?

Who's Mike Nelson?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
comicjel

comicjel

Posted
Posted
On 1/13/2024 at 7:42 PM, Domo Arigato said:

Always makes me wonder who has the cajones to crack and press a book like that. 

Wouldn't take much for it to drop in grade.  Slightest handling mishap.......grading the day after a CGC graders bachelor party........etc.

 

I've thought the same thing many times!!

I have several unpressed 9.6 candidates that I am too chicken to risk trying for 9.8

Link to comment
Share on other sites
sledgehammer

sledgehammer

Posted
Posted
On 1/13/2024 at 6:29 PM, agamoto said:
On 1/13/2024 at 6:10 PM, sledgehammer said:

I came across two ASM 129's recently. One of them was a 9.6 and the other one was a 9.8.

In each of their graders notes, it says slight crushing of spine. 

 

These were briva3/Zaneglor submissions? Speaking of grader's notes, I noticed when I was poring through the notes on all the books in the list, I was surprised how many of the notes had the exact same wording.

It didn't look like one that smelled quite as much like one of his as some others I've seen. 

The 9.8 is in the CL auction going on right now, and the 9.6 was in the same 14 book submission.

The grade date is late November '23.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Lightning55

Lightning55

Posted
Posted
On 1/13/2024 at 6:51 PM, Chip Cataldo said:

First of all, who cares who he told what to and what he said to them? I've collaborated with the President on Foreign Policy, with Paul McCartney on a song and with Bill Parcells on the NY Giants defense during their Super Bowl win. See? Anyone can say anything...doesn't mean it's true. He lied.

The public doesn't know about this "scandal" at all. 98% of the people who submit comics to CGC don't know about this. Most of them probably wouldn't care, anyway. It doesn't affect their lives as collectors or sellers. How many people can afford to spend $5-20k on a comic book? That number is very small. I was talking to a local collecting friend of mine last night. He has lots of CGC books. Lots. He buys them on eBay and from the local shops. He had no clue about any of this, and none of the local shops do either. The general collecting public doesn't care.

I think that what CGC has told the public is exactly what Blackstone/Blackrock/Blackface's lawyers WANT them to say. No more, no less. They could give a rat's behind what the public wants/needs/demands, ESPECIALLY the faceless vocal rabble on an internet message board.

Do they need to say anything? Nope. As I've said before, the money will continue to roll in as it has before.

This "scandal" will affect none of that.

+1

Saved me sooooo much typing.

We will have full transparency from CGC right after treasure is found at Oak Island.

As in never.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Chip Cataldo

Chip Cataldo

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 1/13/2024 at 8:11 PM, Lightning55 said:

We will have full transparency from CGC right after treasure is found at Oak Island.

...or when Ghost Adventures finally find one! Do you realize they've been on 17 YEARS??? Lol.

Edited by Chip Cataldo
Link to comment
Share on other sites
drotto

drotto

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 1/13/2024 at 6:28 PM, agamoto said:

While I remember 9.9 talking about chatting with Zaneglor about the 9.8 252 MJ variant, I don't recall him talking about having any discussion with Zaneglor months before about the 266 X-Men MJ Variant and the claims made by Zaneglor about associations with higher-ups at CGC. So, still news to me. 

It just underlines how I've felt about this from the beginning. When I first got involved in this, The 9.8 252 MJ, a 266 X-Men and a few Hulk 181 switcheroos had been identified. I then found hundreds of more listings going back to 2016 and when I counted the dozens upon dozens of Spider-Man 300 9.8's in play, I mentioned it here in the forums and I knew, right there and then, that the scope of this was massive and something law enforcement needed to get involved in.  

This goes along with my gut feeling that the scammer is not inside CGC, but is well known to them and has a relationship with them. I have a few friends that have been very active in comic circles for years that get preferred treatment with CGC. This is not fair to your average collector, but it is the way the world works, because they have spent so much money with CGC. You think all these sig series artist and store exclusive variant covers go through the regular CGC witness process?

 

I will even admit to benefiting from it at one point, get mad at me if you wish. I had bought a sketch cover, the dealer gave it to me to take over to CGC for a signature cover slab, immediately after getting it (admittingly a break in SS protocol). CGC said initially they would not except it, because they did not witness the artist complete the sketch and sign it. Exactly what they should have done, they did not know who I was. I told the artist representative the issue, he went over to the CGC booth with me, got on the phone with a higher up at CGC, and they accepted his word that the sketch cover was authentic. CGC gave me the yellow label, because he was well known to CGC and has a long standing relationship with them.

 

This is but a small example, but I suspect stuff like this happens all the time.

Edited by drotto
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Silver Surfer

Silver Surfer

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 1/13/2024 at 4:42 PM, Domo Arigato said:

Always makes me wonder who has the cajones to crack and press a book like that. 

Wouldn't take much for it to drop in grade.  Slightest handling mishap.......grading the day after a CGC graders bachelor party........etc.

 

I’m pretty sure that it would have been someone who knows the brass at CGC and almost certainly would have given them the heads up of what they were thinking of doing. Who knows maybe they even did the pressing. There is no way this book just shows up in the mail for processing one day.

Edited by Silver Surfer
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Lightning55

Lightning55

Posted
Posted
On 1/13/2024 at 7:29 PM, agamoto said:

These were briva3/Zaneglor submissions? Speaking of grader's notes, I noticed when I was poring through the notes on all the books in the list, I was surprised how many of the notes had the exact same wording.

For example, the 9.8 ASM 194's have the sole grader's note "very light spine stress lines to cover" 17 times. 

Further to that, there are 3 more 9.8's that also say "very light spine stress lines to cover" followed by "breaks color" 3 more times. 

Still 9.8's

 

Same notes on dozens of my books, verbatim. But not on any 9.8's, so there's that....

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nick Furious

Nick Furious

Posted
Posted
On 1/13/2024 at 8:11 PM, Silver Surfer said:

I’m pretty sure that it would have been someone who knows the brass at CGC and almost certainly would have given them the heads up of what they were thinking of doing. Who knows maybe they even did the pressing.

Yeah, doubtful a book like that was sent in anonymously on a hope and a prayer like a commoner would be doing.   Would imagine there were some preliminary conversations/evaluations and some verbal reassurances involved.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Popular Post
Domo Arigato

Domo Arigato

Posted
  • Popular Post
Posted (edited)
On 1/13/2024 at 8:11 PM, Silver Surfer said:

I’m pretty sure that it would have been someone who knows the brass at CGC and almost certainly would have given them the heads up of what they were thinking of doing. Who knows maybe they even did the pressing. There is no way this book just shows up in the mail for processing one day.

 

On 1/13/2024 at 8:19 PM, Nick Furious said:

Yeah, doubtful a book like that was sent in anonymously on a hope and a prayer like a commoner would be doing.   Would imagine there were some preliminary conversations/evaluations and some verbal reassurances involved.   

No doubt.....which is a slap in the face to all the other "peasant" submitters, and to what CGC was "supposed" to be when they first came into existence over two decades ago.

Still taking a huge risk (for a huge reward, obviously) on a book that was worth well over 6 figures in its original 9.6 form.  I've always been very careful with my more important books, but have still managed to make an occasional mistake.  And I trust myself FAR more than the ham-handed individuals that seem to be currently employed at the world's preferred grading company.

I've got books right now worth less than $100 I'd like to have graded and encapsulated.....but there's no way in hell I'll be sending them in with what I've seen over the last few years.

 

Edited by Domo Arigato
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
50 50
Go to topic listing