ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 2/21/2024 at 11:52 AM, CGC Mike said:

In other words, if your sole purpose here is to bash our company and/or promote our competitors, you may be escorted to the door.  Demanding us to do better is one thing.  Name calling and constant trashing is another.  I am hoping that this one action that I have taken will be the last.  I am not seeing this with most everyone else but, I thought I would post this to prevent any others from being banned from this topic or worse. 

Oh look ! The door!

[grendel013]

On 2/21/2024 at 3:16 PM, comicwiz said:

Thanks, excuse the repost of the vid because YT cut off about a minute and a half, which does cover some of the bit you had asked on:

 

 

Thanks man! I gave you a sub too.

[Iconic1s]

On 2/21/2024 at 11:52 AM, CGC Mike said:

While we do allow criticism, everything has it's limits.  Keep this in mind, or you may be banned from this topic.  This just happened to one person.  It could have been worse, as continuous name calling of CCG staff or our company could result in being banned.  In other words, if your sole purpose here is to bash our company and/or promote our competitors, you may be escorted to the door.  Demanding us to do better is one thing.  Name calling and constant trashing is another.  I am hoping that this one action that I have taken will be the last.  I am not seeing this with most everyone else but, I thought I would post this to prevent any others from being banned from this topic or worse.  Please do not dwell on what I have posted, as it is not up for discussion and could result in posts being removed.

Hello @CGC Mike  I hope all is well!  For the record, I was upset for a little while but have evidently gotten over it.  This thread can also be about forgiveness, and I just picked this up, which is a sign of forgiveness on my part!  It looks every bit a 9.9 to me and set me back s few bucks.  Because of this message, I don’t think this is necessarily off topic.  Thanks for all you do, sincerely.

 

[Sigur Ros]

On 2/21/2024 at 7:19 PM, Iconic1s said:

Hello @CGC Mike  I hope all is well!  For the record, I was upset for a little while but have evidently gotten over it.  This thread can also be about forgiveness, and I just picked this up, which is a sign of forgiveness on my part!  It looks every bit a 9.9 to me and set me back s few bucks.  Because of this message, I don’t think this is necessarily off topic.  Thanks for all you do, sincerely.

 

[brute_nm]

On 2/19/2024 at 2:05 PM, sledgehammer said:

I just took a look at the summary on page one, to see if that azwildcatz520, eBay user ID has been noted before.

I might have missed you noting it in one of your other posts, but that certainly seems like it would be another iteration of his user ID names.

@brute_nm

Thanks for the heads up! I had overlooked that.

I added azwildcatz520 to the thread summary post. If you or @comicwiz has a better idea of timeframe this username was active on eBay, please let me know and I'll update that, too.

Edit: I added it as unconfirmed until we find more corroborating evidence, because he may have just recycled scamboy's picture for that ASM 300 sale.  Please let me know if you find other listings or sales with our favorite rug background.  The eBay account has been around since 2007 and has great feedback selling cards, so I don't want to falsely accuse and tarnish an innocent seller's reputation.

Edited February 22 by brute_nm

[Iconic1s]

On 2/21/2024 at 6:33 PM, Sigur Ros said:

That’s a booger!  Book is fine.

[Sigur Ros]

On 2/21/2024 at 7:49 PM, Iconic1s said:

That’s a booger!  Book is fine.

Definitely a CGC 9.9 then.

Who cares about corners.

Edited February 22 by Sigur Ros

[GACollectibles]

On 2/21/2024 at 12:52 PM, CGC Mike said:

Please do not dwell on what I have posted

Now it's all I can think about.

[grendel013]

On 2/21/2024 at 8:10 PM, GACollectibles said:

Now it's all I can think about.

[grendel013]

On 2/21/2024 at 7:49 PM, Iconic1s said:

That’s a booger!  Book is fine.

@CGC Mike If ever someone deserved a quote...

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 2/21/2024 at 7:17 PM, grendel013 said:

On 2/21/2024 at 6:49 PM, Iconic1s said:

That’s a booger!  Book is fine.

@CGC Mike If ever someone deserved a quote...

"Want to know the rest, eh, buy the rights!" How Bizarre 

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 2/21/2024 at 7:25 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

"Want to know the rest, eh, buy the rights!" How Bizarre 

Spoiler

I had been waiting for the right time to post this one, it would have worked several times but I  forgot

I still hope to livin it up a little, but the detective work I'm sure goes on.

 

Edited February 22 by ADAMANTIUM

[comicjel]

On 2/19/2024 at 2:47 PM, comicwiz said:

ASM 300 CGC 9.8 - UNLISTED  ⬇️

(NOTE: This shifts the timeline of tampering further back to August 15, 2018)

Ten days ago I shared the first UNLISTED book (FF 48 CGC 5.5) and have continued compiling others. Today is a holiday here (Family Day) and I've tried to set aside some time to work/share another because I believe this is becoming even more important as events continue to unfold.

Applying the same details on the retrospective and current comparabiles analysis for books impacted by this "holder tampering." The purpose here is to use this unlisted book as an example of how one might arrive at a valuation suitable for redress and/or compensation.

While the serial number from the ComicVerify badge below is a sample, the data is live, and the screenshot takes you right to the sample appraisal and assessment, with notations, working links to diagrams, etc. Full disclosure,ComicVerify is an online appraisal service I began in March of 2022, along with an appraisal service called ToyVerify. It allowed me to streamline reports, and uses proprietary software I developed which helps accelerate the process of mining/discovery, recall, insight assement, as well as calculating comps using the desired valuation method, as well as offering real-time reporting, all accessible in a digital format (smartphone or on your computer).

Certification: 1333068004 (NOT ON THE LIST)

Amazing Spider-Man, The (1963) #300 CGC 9.8

Beginning first with the screenshot of the Cert for posterity:

Based on the assessment arrived at, replacement value would be the method of valuation best suited to handle the market fluctuations seen from the time the book was sold in August 3rd, 2018, and the current day, where consumers are being made aware of an alleged incident involving "holder tampering."

Click screenshot below to visit the online appraisal for further details

Additional notes for comparison, review, and posterity:

Sales history, this ASM 300 appears 4 times for sale, the order that follows is from the first appearance of this cert to the last

Cert: 1333068004
Amazing Spider-Man, The (1963) #300 CGC 9.8

1. 183297086318 | ebay | addict11 | 6/29/2018 | $2,265

 

2. 163182535151 | ebay | ncmultimarketing04 | 8/3/2018 | $2,702

Third appearance (The listing below is when we notice a change of the book inside the holder, while keeping the same certification number)

3. 283097153694 ebay | alleged seller Cert: 1333068004 [8/15/2018] - $2,475

 

4. 232918685477 | ebay | azwildcatz520 | 9/7/2018 | $2,325 (reuses the same images from previous sale)

Comicwiz, the weld line on the label (right below the CGC hologram) between the original version and the swapped version seems to be in two different places (the original one was closer to the right edge of the label).

So wouldn't this imply that a new label was printed and welded to the swapped book (i.e. reholdered), and if so, and since this is a generation of case that was not used in 2018, wouldn't this bring our timeline further back to before 2018?

Also, if this was in fact a reholder by the scammer, wonder why it is not on the 350 list?

Not sure if my logic is sound here, so I wanted to check with the expert! 

 

[Yorick]

On 2/19/2024 at 12:29 PM, comicjel said:

I'm starting to wonder if there are not multiple books out in the population that have the same cert number - I know we have not seen this yet, but it would not shock me at this point!

I was wondering why I wasn't allowed to add those books to my registry sets.... 

[Sigur Ros]

On 2/21/2024 at 11:06 AM, Mr. Zipper said:

This is pretty much how every "scandal" has played out since the beginning of these boards.

Weird that there are so many that you actually keep track of them.

 

 

 

Edited February 22 by Sigur Ros

[comicwiz]

On 2/21/2024 at 9:52 PM, comicjel said:

Comicwiz, the weld line on the label (right below the CGC hologram) between the original version and the swapped version seems to be in two different places (the original one was closer to the right edge of the label).

So wouldn't this imply that a new label was printed and welded to the swapped book (i.e. reholdered), and if so, and since this is a generation of case that was not used in 2018, wouldn't this bring our timeline further back to before 2018?

Also, if this was in fact a reholder by the scammer, wonder why it is not on the 350 list?

Not sure if my logic is sound here, so I wanted to check with the expert! 

 

These are all really good observations and questions. All I've been able to do at this point is note everything I'm seeing, but haven't been able to expand on them as well for a number of reasons. The label observation you made is something I did note in my review, but I have kept those details to myself, and for later review. 

Being brutally honest, I wasn't pleased to see what @sledgehammer noticed last week, with the cert change being made on a book on the list. It puts me in a very difficult situation now because while I have culled an UNLISTED book list from the sales history of the alleged seller, I am concerned that in sharing these, there is nothing stopping CGC from possibly doing the same IF someone comes forward and says, look someone posted my book as being tampered, and rather than addressing it, they just change the cert.

Despite this risk, I still am going to do my best to make time to share the UNLISTED books, it may be with time gaps, but I hope to get to them all. This is a task that is divided by needing to still go through thousands of records.

Observations like you've made are a great help, and I would encourage you and others to try to compile those observations (and if possible) report them as you have, or consolidate them in a combined review of "impacted" books, as I've got to be over 20 books that I've shared thus far. These observations, along with help from the community to monitor any attempts to sell any of these UNLISTED books are why I wanted to share what I can, in the hopes that (keeping with what I said in the video) we as a  community can try our best to stay ahead of this. 

Edited February 22 by comicwiz

[sledgehammer]

On 2/22/2024 at 5:48 AM, Sigur Ros said:

Weird that there are so many that you actually keep track of them.

What was weird was that he put scandal in quotes.

Maybe it's because he's from upper New York.

 

Edited February 22 by sledgehammer

[sledgehammer]

On 2/21/2024 at 6:46 PM, brute_nm said:

Edit: I added it as unconfirmed until we find more corroborating evidence, because he may have just recycled scamboy's picture for that ASM 300 sale.  Please let me know if you find other listings or sales with our favorite rug background.  The eBay account has been around since 2007 and has great feedback selling cards, so I don't want to falsely accuse and tarnish an innocent seller's reputation.

100%  

Worth keeping an eye on, just for re using that white carpet photo.

 

[comicwiz]

On 2/22/2024 at 6:48 AM, Sigur Ros said:

Weird that there are so many that you actually keep track of them.

 

 

 

Steve has been a long-time, OG member here. I understand that when someone drops in and sees some of the discord that emanates from a thread, and a topic that exposes raw nerves like this thread has, that it's easy to draw parallels. The dynamics are complex, lots of history that gets overlooked, and despite this, the discourse has been for the most part civil. Although, it's impossible for someone lurking or not participating for long periods to see the full picture. Regardless, he does know about past scandals. His blog is the last remnant of the internet which documents the list I shared back when the micro-trimming scandal happened. What gets glossed over is that there have been some casualties to the ildle inaction from the grading company - people who stuck their necks out to "help" the community ended-up becoming targets. Some of us have learned from this, and recalibrated with our reasoning for sharing what we feel comfortable sharing. Money is a hell of a thing, it causes people to make terrible choices, and this is the common thread each of these scandals share. It would be more accurate to describe it as unfortunate that these types of things continue to occur, but it's the only chance the community has of staying informed, because the history of web evidence reveals we would otherwise never know the extent, scale or that the odds are not in our favour it is ever reported at all.

Edited February 22 by comicwiz

[Mr. Zipper]

On 2/22/2024 at 8:06 AM, comicwiz said:

Steve has been a long-time, OG member here. I understand that when someone drops in and sees some of the discord that emanates from a thread, and a topic that exposes raw nerves like this thread has, that it's easy to draw parallels. The dynamics are complex, lots of history that gets overlooked, and despite this, the discourse has been for the most part civil. Although, it's impossible for someone lurking or not participating for long periods to see the full picture. Regardless, he does know about past scandals. His blog is the last remnant of the internet which documents the list I shared back when the micro-trimming scandal happened. What gets glossed over is that there have been some casualties to the ildle inaction from the grading company - people who stuck their necks out to "help" the community ended-up becoming targets. Some of us have learned from this, and recalibrated with our reasoning for sharing what we feel comfortable sharing. Money is a hell of a thing, it causes people to make terrible choices, and this is the common thread each of these scandals share. It would be more accurate to describe it as unfortunate that these types of things continue to occur, but it's the only chance the community has of staying informed, because the history of web evidence reveals we would otherwise never know the extent, scale or that the odds are not in our favour it is ever reported.

Thanks, Joseph. I have a lot of respect for your work and don't mean to diminish it. And clearly this matter is at a different level than most past issues. Frankly, I stopped following this thread closely because of the inevitable useless side comments, wild speculation and other typical message board noise. So, I probably have missed critical information. 

Some of the issues in the past were certainly tempests in a teapot, yet there were people running around with their hair on fire scolding anyone who wasn't also hammering the panic button. That is why I quoted "scandals," not because I live in Saratoga, NY. 

Edited February 22 by Mr. Zipper
typo