Fox Comics Appreciation Thread! 20 20

[lou_fine]

On 3/11/2023 at 7:06 PM, Straw-Man said:

You definitely can't go wrong with an Allentown copy of an book, especially since there's so very few of them in existence with a total of only 135 in the entire pedigree.  

Based upon the serial number, it looks like this copy here is a straight reholder since I remember this book when it was still in its original slab and sold for a whopping $5,750 or close to 7X top of guide in the big Greg Manning Auction back in 2000.  At a time when huge multiples like that was certainly not as common as it is nowadays.  

Edited March 12, 2023 by lou_fine

[buttock]

On 3/12/2023 at 12:41 AM, lou_fine said:

Yeah, similar to the Mystery Men 6 cover, as both of these covers were initially attributed to Fine by Overstreet for the longest while before he changed the credits to George Tuska in his guide.  

Heck, maybe if we wait long enough, we'll probably find out that all of those calssic early Fox covers was not done by Fine, but actually all of them were done by Tuska.       

IIRC Jon Berk confirmed both were by Tuska by speaking with Tuska directly.

[Spyder!]

On 3/12/2023 at 4:26 AM, buttock said:

IIRC Jon Berk confirmed both were by Tuska by speaking with Tuska directly.

Yes, I believe that is correct.

[comicjack]

On 3/12/2023 at 12:27 PM, Spyder! said:

Yes, I believe that is correct.

Weird comics 1 cover was done by Tuska we had talked about this back in the 90's.He also did Bull's Eye 11 cover from a splash page reused by Chesler i wish CGC would get those right.

[lou_fine]

On 3/12/2023 at 11:22 AM, comicjack said:

Weird comics 1 cover was done by Tuska we had talked about this back in the 90's.He also did Bull's Eye 11 cover from a splash page reused by Chesler i wish CGC would get those right.

Ask and ye shall eventually receive, as evident by the label on this copy that was graded in 2020 and auctioned off in January of 2021:    

[Professor K]

Fine definitely did covers up until April 1940 for Wonderworld (12), Mystery Men (9), and Fantastic (5). Science 3 gets a little iffy to me because the aliens don't look like anything from any other of his covers. The womans face doesn't really look like other women's Fine drew either. I've heard some of the old artists use the term "Slick". If I understand the term correctly Science 3 looks slicker than pretty much every other Fine cover up until then. You can tell by the man that Weird 1 isn't Fine. None of it looks like Fine really other than maybe the lady. I'm not anywhere near an expert on Tuska (Fine either at that) and if they say Weird 1 is Tuska I'll believe it. Just aren't enough Tuska covers from back then to compare it to. The monster guy and the gorilla are just so unusual. The monster guy is a little Simon looking even.

[adamstrange]

On 3/12/2023 at 11:44 PM, Professor K said:

Fine definitely did covers up until April 1940 for Wonderworld (12), Mystery Men (9), and Fantastic (5). Science 3 gets a little iffy to me because the aliens don't look like anything from any other of his covers. The womans face doesn't really look like other women's Fine drew either. I've heard some of the old artists use the term "Slick". If I understand the term correctly Science 3 looks slicker than pretty much every other Fine cover up until then. You can tell by the man that Weird 1 isn't Fine. None of it looks like Fine really other than maybe the lady. I'm not anywhere near an expert on Tuska (Fine either at that) and if they say Weird 1 is Tuska I'll believe it. Just aren't enough Tuska covers from back then to compare it to. The monster guy and the gorilla are just so unusual. The monster guy is a little Simon looking even.

Science 3 is not by Fine.  The creatures are swiped from a Paul pulp painting.  Nowhere in the image is there any sign of the exquisite inking and line work like on Science 2 or Mystery Men 9. 

My guess is Tuska, as it is more cartoonish than how Joe Simon usually drew.

Edited March 13, 2023 by adamstrange

[Professor K]

On 3/13/2023 at 12:14 AM, adamstrange said:

Science 3 is not by Fine.  The creatures are swiped from a Paul pulp painting.  Nowhere in the image is there any sign of the exquisite inking and line work like on Science 2 or Mystery Men 9. 

My guess is Tuska, as it more cartoonish than how Joe Simon usually drew.

Thanks for verifying that. The cgc label says Fine cover but I had my doubts. And yeah it looks nothing like the Simon covers of the following months. 

[Point Five]

On 3/12/2023 at 2:22 PM, comicjack said:

Weird comics 1 cover was done by Tuska we had talked about this back in the 90's.He also did Bull's Eye 11 cover from a splash page reused by Chesler i wish CGC would get those right.

That's cool! I never knew that. I can see it! Crisp lines and faces fairly similar to e.g. the Weird #1 cover.

 

[lou_fine]

On 3/11/2023 at 7:07 PM, Straw-Man said:

the next bump is a bridge too far for my fox collection.

Fantastic and absolutely gorgeous set of Fox pedigrees and I never get tired of seeing them and would your next bump up be this copy of an early Fantastic here:  

Then again, if my memory serves me correctly, wasn't there something here about an Allentown copy of Mystery Men 1 or some unforgettable book like that?     

[comicjack]

On 3/13/2023 at 10:30 AM, Point Five said:

That's cool! I never knew that. I can see it! Crisp lines and faces fairly similar to e.g. the Weird #1 cover.

 

Bloody red cover i always liked that one 

[Spyder!]

On 3/13/2023 at 12:52 AM, Professor K said:

Thanks for verifying that. The cgc label says Fine cover but I had my doubts. And yeah it looks nothing like the Simon covers of the following months. 

On more recent slabs, CGC no longer lists Fine as the artist for Science 3.

[Spyder!]

On 3/12/2023 at 9:14 PM, adamstrange said:

Science 3 is not by Fine.  The creatures are swiped from a Paul pulp painting.  Nowhere in the image is there any sign of the exquisite inking and line work like on Science 2 or Mystery Men 9. 

My guess is Tuska, as it is more cartoonish than how Joe Simon usually drew.

Didn’t know it was swiped from Paul, but of course it was! He loved those big elephant ears! 

[adamstrange]

On 3/13/2023 at 2:18 PM, Spyder! said:

Didn’t know it was swiped from Paul, but of course it was! He loved those big elephant ears! 

 For the first few issues of the Fantastic Adventures pulp, Paul painted scenes of what flora and fauna would be like on different planets.  These were printed on the back cover of these bedsheet-sized issues and one of them included the big-eared creatures swiped for Science 3.  With my limited time, I was unable to find the exact issue.

[comicjack]

On 3/13/2023 at 2:16 PM, Spyder! said:

On more recent slabs, CGC no longer lists Fine as the artist for Science 3.

I'm  thinking Tuska had a hand in that one i see no Fine at all but who knows they all have passed 

[Spyder!]

On 3/13/2023 at 12:27 PM, adamstrange said:

 For the first few issues of the Fantastic Adventures pulp, Paul painted scenes of what flora and fauna would be like on different planets.  These were printed on the back cover of these bedsheet-sized issues and one of them included the big-eared creatures swiped for Science 3.  With my limited time, I was unable to find the exact issue.

Looks like this one

[Professor K]

On 3/13/2023 at 2:16 PM, Spyder! said:

On more recent slabs, CGC no longer lists Fine as the artist for Science 3.

I hadn't seen that. Good. 

[lou_fine]

With all of the more knowledgeable Fox aficionados in this thread here, thought it might be better to ask this question here, as opposed to the CC thread where I first posted it.  

With all of the recent very strong prices that we have now seen with Mystery Men 2 during the past couple of years, has this book now pass Mystery Men 3 to become the 2nd most valuable issue in the pantheon of early Mystery Men books, a spot long held by MM 3:  

On 3/17/2023 at 8:42 PM, lou_fine said:

Then again, if you are referring to the CGC 3.5 graded copy of Mystery Men 2 that sold for just over $6K, I would tend to agree with you more.  

Definitely a beautiful brightly color very early robot cover, but has this book vaulted ahead of Mystery Men 3 to move into the second most valuable issue in the Mystery Men run and a spot which was long held by MM 3?  Especially since CGC 3.0 to CGC 3.5 graded copies of MM 2 have now seen multiple sales in the $6K to $7K price range (or up to 9X+ condition guide value) over the past couple of years, with the only outlier being the CGC 3.0 copy that sold for $5,040 at Heritage in August of 2022.  

Especially since the Heritage archives (no sales in this condition range in the CC archives) indicates the last CGC 3.0 sale for Mystery Men 3 was for only $2,280 back in November of 2020.  Looks like the HA archives indicates that copies of MM 3 in CGC 4.5 and CGC 4.0 managed to hit only $5,160 and $4,800 in May and December of 2022 respectively.  Wow, lower graded copies of MM2 selling for higher prices than higher graded copies of MM 3 on a seemingly consistent basis.  Go figure that!!!    

https://www.comicconnect.com/item/988078

Although I've personally always like the brighter cover colors when it came to Mystery Men 2, I also totally agree with the point made by @adamstrange that the whole si-fi image with spaceships, ray guns, robots, etc. tend to have wider appeal.  

No need to ask our other long time resident fellow boardie here, namely @MrBedrock himself,  because he'll simply think we've all gone bonkers from our weekend hangover and it's really all about Mystery Men 10.    

Edited March 19, 2023 by lou_fine

[RareHighGrade]

Availability could be a factor.  MM #2 seems to come up for sale less often than #3 and there are fewer copies on the census.

[lou_fine]

On 3/19/2023 at 1:39 PM, RareHighGrade said:

Availability could be a factor.  MM #2 seems to come up for sale less often than #3 and there are fewer copies on the census.

When it comes to availability or really more lack thereof, besides the goulish cover which is so IN with collectors nowadays, rarity in any grade with only a meagre 5 Universal unrestored copies graded so far must also have been one of the main factors driving this copy here all the way up to $24K only a few short months ago:    

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/mystery-men-comics-30-fox-1942-cgc-vg-45-off-white-to-white-pages/a/40214-81108.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

Especially considering that an equivalent CGC 4.5 graded copy had sold for only $227 back in 2009.