Baker Romance 43 43

[Sqeggs]

1 minute ago, szavisca said:

Fair enough! Like I said thinking out loud...its fun to debate.  There's probably no agenda, and I'd like to think they do the best they can which is why I considered that maybe they just don't wanna put to their name to a price on things for which there is no data and for which realized prices are just all over the place.  You're right anyway, there's no pleasing everyone no matter what you do.

I think he's been right over the years not to try to reflect what might be transitory price increases in thinly traded books.  If a couple of people drive up the price of a scarce GA book at auction, does that auction price represent a good benchmark for either dealers or collectors?  Maybe not if the guy who won the auction is no longer in the market for a copy and the next copy that comes to market is likely to sell for considerably less.

Similarly, a one-off low price doesn't necessarily mean that the hobby has moved on from a book and prices will be lower going forward. Maybe the book just got overlooked for one reason or another and the next copy will sell for a significantly higher price.  

An annual price guide can't really be expected to follow the twists and turns of the market, particularly these days when we have eBay and an endless procession of auctions.  You may be right, though, that he could do a better job of conveying uncertainty on the pricing of certain books.  Of course, that's what the "Prices vary widely on this book" notation is for, but maybe he should be using it (or other language) more frequently.

[N e r V]

6 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

The way I heard it back then was that the Guide was over priced on books he had, and under priced on books he wanted. 

[MrBedrock]

1 hour ago, szavisca said:

The people hurt most by OPG keeping their prices artificially low are naïve sellers new to the market.  Given that OPG advisors seem to be mostly dealers you can't help but wonder if there's an agenda keeping the listed prices low.  On the other hand...it also enables savvy collectors to get books below real value from uninformed dealers and collectors.  I'll freely admit I know very little about OPGs process or their advisors...so just thinking out loud here.  Furthermore, a seller new to the market who takes their time to figure out what their books are worth has access to tools like GPA, Heritage archives, ebay, etc. etc.  It's not terribly hard to figure out what stuff is worth anymore...except  things like rare Baker books for which there is little to no current sales data out there.

Consider also that the OPG makers just may not be comfortable putting, or raising,  a price on something for which there is little useful data out there.  It did annoy me for countless years that they refused to put a price on a TMNT #1 first print, instead for so many years it just said "prices vary widely on this book" ...anyone know the story as to why?.... Perhaps OPG could best serve it's readers by putting more such "prices vary widely" tags on especially rare books....the drawback being that prices vary widely on just about everything GA now! ... and it would clutter the book.  But it would be a better "guide" to people wading through the comic book market to put a statement like that, than a price that's essentially made up and meaningless.

 

The advisors being mostly dealers can affect pricing, but not in a way that you might think. I have long grumbled about the market reports. I stopped submitting them about eight years ago and every time I think about doing a new one I go and read the most recent reports and get annoyed all over again. The method of the market report in the Overstreet is so antiquated, unscientific and self serving that I think they actually do more harm than good. Here are a couple of the main reasons why...the folks who write that a particular genre is HOT HOT HOT possibly have a large inventory of those items. You cannot say something is HOT without actually having some to sell or without having sold some. It is a little self serving to have some and say they are hot because you sold some in the past. Flipside, if you never had any and haven't had anyone ask then you can't definitively say something is cold. Most dealers don't purchase Classic Illustrated, have none in stock, and continuously say they are dead. I sell the snot out of them. But I also stock the snot out of them. For me to say they are HOT would be self serving...for others to say they are dead is ridiculous. Present day...we all know that Centaurs are HOT right? Half the market reports in the Guide will say yes. But I bet half of those folks haven't sold a single Centaur in the last year. How in the world can a dealer announce that something is hot if he/she hasn't sold one? There is no filter or checks-and-balances to the market reports, but subliminally they affect the opinions of readers and more importantly those who calculate pricing.

[BakerFanOne]

4 hours ago, sacentaur said:

So here's my haul from SDCC, which pushed me past my goal of acquiring 50 Bakers this year (same goal as last year). 

 

Wow - awesome haul.  Congratulations on 50+!

[BakerFanOne]

11 hours ago, MBFan said:

I'm not sure what it has to do with my original comment that it's hard for Overstreet to accurately list Baker prices...but the answer to your question is no and it's not really a reverse of the scenario I'm talking about.

I'm referring to the distortion of pricing that occurs when people who have no interest in a particular item interject themselves into an auction only so they can turn around immediately and jack the prices up on true fans who they just outbid. 

To put it another way: Imagine you and I were at an in-person live comic book auction, and we were both rabid and ready to go to the limit for a 9.2 copy of Giant Comics Editions #12. (Dream big!)

Someone on the sidelines hears us talking and realizes that you and I don't care what it costs to land the book. That person came to bid on some Superman comics, but now they smell money and decide to outbid both of us on the GCE 12, and they have the finances to outlast both of us.

After the end of the auction, as I'm walking to my car, the winning bidder runs up to me in the parking lot and offers me the book for $1500 more than he just paid.

Maybe some people would be good with that. I would not.

And again, back to the subject that started this Baker thread sidebar: Likely being the only sale that year (or ever of course) for GCE 12 in such high grade, how should Overstreet list that issue & grade in the guide? The price at which you or I would have outlasted the other? The price the flipper outbid us to? Or the price after his mark-up? 

According to GoCollect, 78 9.8 copies of Amazing Spider-Man #300 have sold on eBay in the past 12 months. With that sales volume, even after some dealer hanky-panky, a reliable average price can be determined. Some of these Baker books, however, might sell once every 2 years or more, making it very hard to arrive at a reliable price for the guide. Between that and people who are manipulating the system at times, we may never see accurate Baker pricing in Overstreet. 

 

Remember that everyone has an equal opportunity to buy the book at that auction moment.  The buyer bears all the risk of trying to flip the book in the future.  I cannot begrudge someone for seeing a good opportunity and trying to make a profit.  Just like the person who sees an undervalued book at a local shop and buys it.  

[Yorick]

On 7/24/2017 at 8:51 AM, Ryan. said:

What about Love Romances 78?

This one?

Edited July 26, 2017 by Yorick
Where's my pasted image?!!!

[Yorick]

On 7/25/2017 at 11:11 AM, sacentaur said:

So here's my haul from SDCC, which pushed me past my goal of acquiring 50 Bakers this year (same goal as last year). 

 

Close-up photos of DS 16 and both those TAR 14s, PLEASE?  LOVE that group shot!  Congrats.

[Sqeggs]

5 minutes ago, Yorick said:

This one?

Baker with a megadose of Colletta, I think. 

[Yorick]

5 minutes ago, Sqeggs said:

Baker with a megadose of Colletta, I think. 

I think that Baker rubbed off a bit on Colletta when he was inking Baker.  Colletta was able to maintain a Bakerish look for a while, but it would be hard for me to put Baker's name on this one.

[Yorick]

On 7/24/2017 at 10:37 AM, ThothAmon said:

Posted in the under 10 census thread also.  Teen-Age Temptations 7.

 

On 7/24/2017 at 10:43 AM, Sqeggs said:

One of my favs, too, although from the looks of the guy with the receding hairline maybe it should have been titled "Middle-Age Temptations." 

Nice to see the other 7.5!  I think there are plenty of copies for all of us of this issue, despite what the census numbers are.  Maybe not too affordable however.  Baker didn't give us many "tail-lights" covers.

[29dukedog]

1 hour ago, Yorick said:

Baker didn't give us many "tail-lights" covers.

Boy, he really didn't.  Besides TT 7 and WR 16, what else have we got...?  Certainly not enough for a special, sub-category thread... which is a shame.  Coulda called it, "Baker's Behinds"... or "Beautiful Baker Butts".   

Edited July 26, 2017 by 29dukedog
added gags

[n2wdw]

On 7/25/2017 at 9:03 AM, MBFan said:

I'm not sure what it has to do with my original comment that it's hard for Overstreet to accurately list Baker prices...but the answer to your question is no and it's not really a reverse of the scenario I'm talking about.

I'm referring to the distortion of pricing that occurs when people who have no interest in a particular item interject themselves into an auction only so they can turn around immediately and jack the prices up on true fans who they just outbid. 

To put it another way: Imagine you and I were at an in-person live comic book auction, and we were both rabid and ready to go to the limit for a 9.2 copy of Giant Comics Editions #12. (Dream big!)

Someone on the sidelines hears us talking and realizes that you and I don't care what it costs to land the book. That person came to bid on some Superman comics, but now they smell money and decide to outbid both of us on the GCE 12, and they have the finances to outlast both of us.

After the end of the auction, as I'm walking to my car, the winning bidder runs up to me in the parking lot and offers me the book for $1500 more than he just paid.

Maybe some people would be good with that. I would not.

And again, back to the subject that started this Baker thread sidebar: Likely being the only sale that year (or ever of course) for GCE 12 in such high grade, how should Overstreet list that issue & grade in the guide? The price at which you or I would have outlasted the other? The price the flipper outbid us to? Or the price after his mark-up? 

According to GoCollect, 78 9.8 copies of Amazing Spider-Man #300 have sold on eBay in the past 12 months. With that sales volume, even after some dealer hanky-panky, a reliable average price can be determined. Some of these Baker books, however, might sell once every 2 years or more, making it very hard to arrive at a reliable price for the guide. Between that and people who are manipulating the system at times, we may never see accurate Baker pricing in Overstreet. 

 

As a collector -- I rarely sell -- I certainly don't like to pay higher than I have to.  Like everyone, I win some and lose some.  But I don't agree with your original premise that someone is artificially jacking up prices.  Say my max bid for a Baker is $500, and I get out bid by someone for $750.  Then say that person comes to these boards (or C-Link, C-Connect, whatever) and flips it for $1000.  Well, then that means the market value of that book is $1000 (or at least closer to his bid of $750 instead of my bid of $500).  I don't think the winning bidder has done anything inappropriate.  Sure, I wish I could have bought the book for $500.  But if the true market value of the book is $1000, and the other buyer knew it, then he deserved to win and I deserved to lose.  There's nothing wrong with that IMHO. 

Now, let's say the true market value of that book is really $500.  Well then, that means the winning buyer is going to lose his shirt when he tries to resell.  And honestly in the long run I don't care that I lost the auction.  If I'm right and the true market value is $500, then eventually I'll get my copy. 

 

[Robot Man]

2 hours ago, 29dukedog said:

Boy, he really didn't.  Besides TT 7 and WR 16, what else have we got...?  Certainly not enough for a special, sub-category thread... which is a shame.  Coulda called it, "Baker's Behinds"... or "Beautiful Baker Butts".   

This Bob would make time for THAT!

[Robot Man]

1 hour ago, n2wdw said:

As a collector -- I rarely sell -- I certainly don't like to pay higher than I have to.  Like everyone, I win some and lose some.  But I don't agree with your original premise that someone is artificially jacking up prices.  Say my max bid for a Baker is $500, and I get out bid by someone for $750.  Then say that person comes to these boards (or C-Link, C-Connect, whatever) and flips it for $1000.  Well, then that means the market value of that book is $1000 (or at least closer to his bid of $750 instead of my bid of $500).  I don't think the winning bidder has done anything inappropriate.  Sure, I wish I could have bought the book for $500.  But if the true market value of the book is $1000, and the other buyer knew it, then he deserved to win and I deserved to lose.  There's nothing wrong with that IMHO. 

Now, let's say the true market value of that book is really $500.  Well then, that means the winning buyer is going to lose his shirt when he tries to resell.  And honestly in the long run I don't care that I lost the auction.  If I'm right and the true market value is $500, then eventually I'll get my copy. 

 

Sounds like the true market value that day was $1,000. Baker stuff is so up and down these days that it is pretty hard to put any kind of a true "market value" on them... Now say it "guides" for $500. you might get lucky if the gods are with you.

[n2wdw]

14 hours ago, Robot Man said:

Sounds like the true market value that day was $1,000. Baker stuff is so up and down these days that it is pretty hard to put any kind of a true "market value" on them... Now say it "guides" for $500. you might get lucky if the gods are with you.

I think you make a good point.  Bakers aren't like ASM 300 or IH 181, where the market value is pretty stable, so you have a pretty good idea if any given sale is below or above market.  With Bakers it very much depends on who happens to be shopping at the time of any given auction.   It goes both ways -- sometimes prices are astronomical, other times you can get a deal.  For example, just a couple weeks ago I won Midget Comics 1 on eBay for 8 bucks.  (BTW, this is a cool comic.  I've posted it below in a silver age mylar -- you can see it's the size of a digest).

I keep track of all my Baker purchases.  So, my max bids and offers are based on what I have spent before.  So if on a given day my data says I should offer $500, yet someone else is willing to pay $750, then I let it go.  This helps me to take the emotion out of comic buying, and not over-pay by not competing with someone who really wants the comic and is willing to pay anything.

I'm not always successful.  For example, I probably paid too much for my GCE 12 because, in that instance, I was the bidder who really wanted the comic and was willing to pay (pretty much) anything.  I don't regret buying it though.  Sometimes I have buyer's remorse but it always goes away.  In fact, in my entire 40+ years of collecting, the only comic buys I regret are the ones I didn't make.

[Robot Man]

33 minutes ago, n2wdw said:

I think you make a good point.  Bakers aren't like ASM 300 or IH 181, where the market value is pretty stable, so you have a pretty good idea if any given sale is below or above market.  With Bakers it very much depends on who happens to be shopping at the time of any given auction.   It goes both ways -- sometimes prices are astronomical, other times you can get a deal.  For example, just a couple weeks ago I won Midget Comics 1 on eBay for 8 bucks.  (BTW, this is a cool comic.  I've posted it below in a silver age mylar -- you can see it's the size of a digest).

I keep track of all my Baker purchases.  So, my max bids and offers are based on what I have spent before.  So if on a given day my data says I should offer $500, yet someone else is willing to pay $750, then I let it go.  This helps me to take the emotion out of comic buying, and not over-pay by not competing with someone who really wants the comic and is willing to pay anything.

I'm not always successful.  For example, I probably paid too much for my GCE 12 because, in that instance, I was the bidder who really wanted the comic and was willing to pay (pretty much) anything.  I don't regret buying it though.  Sometimes I have buyer's remorse but it always goes away.  In fact, in my entire 40+ years of collecting, the only comic buys I regret are the ones I didn't make.

Ain't that the truth!

[sacentaur]

Any thoughts on the raw TAR #40 currently on ebay (I don't know the seller) - I checked the Census and the current top graded copy is only 5.0.

Edited July 27, 2017 by sacentaur

[comicjack]

He is Roger66 and a member on the boards Steve 

[sacentaur]

42 minutes ago, comicjack said:

He is Roger66 and a member on the boards Steve 

Thanks - one of the good guys!  

[comicnoir]

Picked this up recently. Not romance, no girl on the cover but I've always wanted a copy. There's a nice gun moll on the inside.