Show me your Timely's and I'll show you mine. Have a Cigar... 30 30

[sartrexpress]

Whats the most scarce Timely issue?  Not in grade, just the book itself? ( Not including funny animal titles)... Books we once thought scarce might not be any longer.

Just wondering on opinions, I have mine down to two or three. 

[Figment]

On 2/23/2023 at 2:23 AM, sartrexpress said:

Whats the most scarce Timely issue?  Not in grade, just the book itself? ( Not including funny animal titles)... Books we once thought scarce might not be any longer.

Just wondering on opinions, I have mine down to two or three. 

Maybe not exactly a Timely, but Motion Picture Funnies Weekly #1 (first printed appearance of Timely's Sub-Mariner) has to be up on that list.

[Primetime]

On 2/23/2023 at 12:23 AM, sartrexpress said:

Whats the most scarce Timely issue?  Not in grade, just the book itself? ( Not including funny animal titles)... Books we once thought scarce might not be any longer.

Just wondering on opinions, I have mine down to two or three. 

Some considerations that are not only scarce in the marketplace but historically aren’t as easily available: 

Red Raven 1

Daring Mystery 1-4

Mystics 3,4,8-10

Marvel 1,5,9

(MPFW1 is technically a Funnies, Inc movie premium that was never distributed publicly; 8-9 surviving file copies do make it quite rare)

Edited February 23, 2023 by Primetime

[Frisco Larson]

On 2/23/2023 at 2:23 AM, sartrexpress said:

Whats the most scarce Timely issue?  Not in grade, just the book itself? ( Not including funny animal titles)... Books we once thought scarce might not be any longer.

Just wondering on opinions, I have mine down to two or three. 

Actually, I wouldn't say any of them are scarce as far as copies that still exist. Scarce to the market is a different story. I'd say that Daring Mystery 3 & 4 are seldom seen, although I've owned 2 copies of 4, a vg-ish copy with a little work and one of the two 6.5 Universal copies on the census. Daring Mystery #1 I'd say isn't scarce. I have a picture from our second Timely Geek Club fest (1999) where randomly, all 4 of us have a copy of Daring Mystery #1 and had it WITH us! Mystic 4 can be tough as well as 8-10 but I think those are the ones people tend to hold on to. USA 3-5 I see less often, but most of the Cap issues I've seen quite a bit. I see less of Marvel Mystery 3 & 9 than most of the rest. Maybe 6 is less common too. I'd be interested to know your take on it, Steven. 

[Cat-Man_America]

On 2/23/2023 at 2:23 AM, sartrexpress said:

Whats the most scarce Timely issue?  Not in grade, just the book itself? ( Not including funny animal titles)... Books we once thought scarce might not be any longer.

Just wondering on opinions, I have mine down to two or three. 

The toughest to find in grade or not is probably Daring Mystery #5, though 1-4 are all tough books. Marvel Mystery #8 (first HT/Subbbie battle book) is a bit rarer than #9 if gauging by CGC census; #8 has a pretty cool yellow cover featuring the Angel, but doesn't pop up in auctions much; more attention is usually given #9 because of the Torch/Subbie battle cover. Mystic Comics Vol II books can be tough; I don't see them pop-up that often.  USA #3-5 are tough, although I managed to acquire copies of 3 & 5 when I wasn't even looking for 'em (lol).  I agree with Primetime and Frisco-Larson generally though. Which Timelys do you consider scarcest?

[Mike Bromberg]

On 2/23/2023 at 12:23 AM, sartrexpress said:

Whats the most scarce Timely issue?  Not in grade, just the book itself? ( Not including funny animal titles)... Books we once thought scarce might not be any longer.

Just wondering on opinions, I have mine down to two or three. 

All Select #3 is a tough one. Namora #3 is, too. Took me a few years to find a copy (although some have surfaced over the last year or so). All Winners #8 is tough. (I tend to only collect Schomburg Nazi covers mostly those with Captain America on them, but some Marvel Mysterys, like #51 and 52 and others.)

I could use an All Select #1, speaking of great ones - probably not super rare, but a pricey one, for sure. (And #4, which would be an upgrade.)

[sartrexpress]

On 2/23/2023 at 1:20 PM, Frisco Larson said:

Actually, I wouldn't say any of them are scarce as far as copies that still exist. Scarce to the market is a different story. I'd say that Daring Mystery 3 & 4 are seldom seen, although I've owned 2 copies of 4, a vg-ish copy with a little work and one of the two 6.5 Universal copies on the census. Daring Mystery #1 I'd say isn't scarce. I have a picture from our second Timely Geek Club fest (1999) where randomly, all 4 of us have a copy of Daring Mystery #1 and had it WITH us! Mystic 4 can be tough as well as 8-10 but I think those are the ones people tend to hold on to. USA 3-5 I see less often, but most of the Cap issues I've seen quite a bit. I see less of Marvel Mystery 3 & 9 than most of the rest. Maybe 6 is less common too. I'd be interested to know your take on it, Steven. 

1.There's scarce in grade, 2. scarce because collectors don't allow them seen by the light of day, and 3. just plain scarce as there are not many. Some overlap these criteria. In general Timely's are more scarce than DC's. And in general comics are more scarce than coins. Most first issues, generally the most valuable... collectors hold onto for appreciation, like Marvel 1... at one time there was a Marvel 1 in almost every sale, now not so many. Marvel 5 was thought to be the most scarce of the title years ago,, I think it still is along with 3,, then 4,and 6, as we are seeing many low grade 4's now pop up though. And I know there are more 9's out there but thats a book people hold onto as well.  USA 11 was thought to be one of the scarcest, still is to some degree but not like it was once thought to be.. I would say USA 5,7,14 are the most scarce in the run with #5 in the lead. Daring 2,3,4 are scarce also, although I have seen more 4's of late than usual. As far as Caps, lots of were printed but in grade and combined with some rarity 74 leads, with 69, 76,78 ( if we count Atlas) behind with some in the 20's like 21, 24,25. some of the later Sub-Mariners are tough like 32 and 33. But all in all, IMHO Torch 32,, then 34,37 ,Daring Mystery 2,3,4,9,  Red Raven 1, Namora 3, Marvel Mystery 3,5,  and Mystic 2,4,9 and Blonde Phantom 17-22 are the most rare. I may be off and would love to hear more opinions. 

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by sartrexpress

[Frisco Larson]

On 2/24/2023 at 2:42 AM, sartrexpress said:

1.There's scarce in grade, 2. scarce because collectors don't allow them seen by the light of day, and 3. just plain scarce as there are not many. Some overlap these criteria. In general Timely's are more scarce than DC's. And in general comics are more scarce than coins. Most first issues, generally the most valuable... collectors hold onto for appreciation, like Marvel 1... at one time there was a Marvel 1 in almost every sale, now not so many. Marvel 5 was thought to be the most scarce of the title years ago,, I think it still is along with 3,, then 4,and 6, as we are seeing many low grade 4's now pop up though. And I know there are more 9's out there but thats a book people hold onto as well.  USA 11 was thought to be one of the scarcest, still is to some degree but not like it was once thought to be.. I would say USA 5,7,14 are the most scarce in the run with #5 in the lead. Daring 2,3,4 are scarce also, although I have seen more 4's of late than usual. As far as Caps, lots of were printed but in grade and combined with some rarity 74 leads, with 69, 76,78 ( if we count Atlas) behind with some in the 20's like 21, 24,25. some of the later Sub-Mariners are tough like 32 and 33. But all in all, IMHO Torch 32,, then 34,37 ,Daring Mystery 2,3,4,9,  Red Raven 1, Namora 3, Marvel Mystery 3,5,  and Mystic 2,4,9 and Blonde Phantom 17-22 are the most rare. I may be off and would love to hear more opinions. 

 

Yes, there are certainly different levels and kinds of scarcity, but your initial post said "not in grade, just the books themselves" so I overlooked those hard to find specifically in high grade. There are some later Timely issues that are harder than others to find, no doubt! Human Torch #32 has always been tougher to find and almost impossible to find in grade. Although I've owned copies in the past, Human Torch #33 & #34 were also issues I saw less of. USA is a run I've had most of at one time. The ones I thought were toughest (and never owned) were #4, #5, #8 & #15. Subby #31 & #32 always seemed tough to find. I've owned the #31, but never the #32. Marvel Mystery probably has some later issues that are tougher, but it's been quite a while since I focused on that, and those issues aren't as memorable to me. Of the earliest Marvel Mystery issues, I've never owned #1, #8 or #9 (well, I DID own a coverless #9). I had shots at them, but they were always expensive. Cap has books at the end of the run which can be tough to find, but I had that part of my run completed before I started selling them. I've owned 2 copies of #74 but they were both tough to find and expensive. You could blanket statement say Caps in the 70s numbering are harder than the rest of the run and most wouldn't disagree. It used to be touted that Tough Kid Squad #1 was "tough" to find (sorry, so punny), but I've always seen that there are enough to go around. Namora #3 has been much harder to find than the other issues in the run. As far as other later comics, I've seen less of my favorite book in the series, Daring Comics #9. I've had one, but never was able to upgrade it. And I agree Steven, that the late Blonde Phantom issues are a challenge. I could probably go on for a while (and some of you are probably afraid that I WILL), but that's really the gist of it. I likewise look forward to reading other opinions on the subject. 

[Frisco Larson]

A tougher to find later issue.

[Badger]

Daring Comics #9 is tough for sure.

[L'Angelo Misterioso]

On 2/24/2023 at 2:12 PM, Badger said:

Daring Comics #9 is tough for sure.

Weird to see two Imperial Japanese tied up in the place of Toro and some damsel in distress

[sartrexpress]

On 2/24/2023 at 2:09 PM, Frisco Larson said:

Yes, there are certainly different levels and kinds of scarcity, but your initial post said "not in grade, just the books themselves" so I overlooked those hard to find specifically in high grade. There are some later Timely issues that are harder than others to find, no doubt! Human Torch #32 has always been tougher to find and almost impossible to find in grade. Although I've owned copies in the past, Human Torch #33 & #34 were also issues I saw less of. USA is a run I've had most of at one time. The ones I thought were toughest (and never owned) were #4, #5, #8 & #15. Subby #31 & #32 always seemed tough to find. I've owned the #31, but never the #32. Marvel Mystery probably has some later issues that are tougher, but it's been quite a while since I focused on that, and those issues aren't as memorable to me. Of the earliest Marvel Mystery issues, I've never owned #1, #8 or #9 (well, I DID own a coverless #9). I had shots at them, but they were always expensive. Cap has books at the end of the run which can be tough to find, but I had that part of my run completed before I started selling them. I've owned 2 copies of #74 but they were both tough to find and expensive. You could blanket statement say Caps in the 70s numbering are harder than the rest of the run and most wouldn't disagree. It used to be touted that Tough Kid Squad #1 was "tough" to find (sorry, so punny), but I've always seen that there are enough to go around. Namora #3 has been much harder to find than the other issues in the run. As far as other later comics, I've seen less of my favorite book in the series, Daring Comics #9. I've had one, but never was able to upgrade it. And I agree Steven, that the late Blonde Phantom issues are a challenge. I could probably go on for a while (and some of you are probably afraid that I WILL), but that's really the gist of it. I likewise look forward to reading other opinions on the subject. 

Nice to see a Namora #3 posted only 23 issues graded along with Torch 32 also with 23 total graded., they might be the most difficult of all the Timely's along with the late Blonde Phantom issues. I also forgot to include USA #8 as there are only 25 issues graded, that might be the scarcest from the title with issue #5 at 31issues #11 at 32 issues and #15 at 32 issues #14 at 32 graded and #7 behind at 35 issues graded including restored copies.  

In some cases there's overlap of scarcity and grade rarity, and it's sometimes difficult to ascertain which. Also, not all books in the world are CGC graded and there may be more unknown books out there, but CGC gives a good parameter on known books graded. Then again, there may be duplicates graded as people re-submit books.

If you look at the amount of DC's graded compared to Timely's, it's really staggering how rare Timely's are comparatively (with exceptions of some early 50's DC books).  Paper quality was higher on DC's so that might  also have contributed to what has survived. 

 

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

I agree with someone else up the chain that All Winners 8 is a very tough book. There’s been a 5.0 hanging around Ebay for a while now, but they are hard to find. @sartrexpressi know you have a 9.0, for which i am profoundly jealous, and maybe you’ve just forgotten how tough it is

[Frisco Larson]

On 2/24/2023 at 1:12 PM, Badger said:

Daring Comics #9 is tough for sure.

It's my favorite of the 4-issue run! #11 is probably second. I guess I dig the green logo banner look! Nice copy btw!!!  

[sartrexpress]

On 2/24/2023 at 6:06 PM, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

I agree with someone else up the chain that All Winners 8 is a very tough book. There’s been a 5.0 hanging around Ebay for a while now, but they are hard to find. @sartrexpressi know you have a 9.0, for which i am profoundly jealous, and maybe you’ve just forgotten how tough it is

Yes scarce in grade for sure and with All Winners #7 from   the run. #8 at 44 total copies graded with issue #7 at 39.

Edited February 25, 2023 by sartrexpress

[Frisco Larson]

On 2/24/2023 at 4:50 PM, sartrexpress said:

Nice to see a Namora #3 posted only 23 issues graded along with Torch 32 also with 23 total graded., they might be the most difficult of all the Timely's along with the late Blonde Phantom issues. I also forgot to include USA #8 as there are only 25 issues graded, that might be the scarcest from the title with issue #5 at 31issues #11 at 32 issues and #15 at 32 issues #14 at 32 graded and #7 behind at 35 issues graded including restored copies.  

In some cases there's overlap of scarcity and grade rarity, and it's sometimes difficult to ascertain which. Also, not all books in the world are CGC graded and there may be more unknown books out there, but CGC gives a good parameter on known books graded. Then again, there may be duplicates graded as people re-submit books.

If you look at the amount of DC's graded compared to Timely's, it's really staggering how rare Timely's are comparatively (with exceptions of some early 50's DC books).  Paper quality was higher on DC's so that might  also have contributed to what has survived. 

 

That's a pretty dazzling display of rarity right there Steven!!! I love them all, but I think Schomburg's inventive cover image on USA #8 and Syd Shores going above and BEYOND to give what is my favorite of his covers on USA #11, those two are the ones I could just stare at for a long time, of the ones you just posted. Not a weak cover in the bunch!!! 

[sartrexpress]

On 2/24/2023 at 3:45 PM, L'Angelo Misterioso said:

Weird to see two Imperial Japanese tied up in the place of Toro and some damsel in distress

yes... wonder whats going on there?  A terrific cover none the less. It's a tough book with only 27 total cgc graded.

[MrBedrock]

[adamstrange]

On 2/24/2023 at 7:21 PM, sartrexpress said:

On 2/24/2023 at 3:45 PM, L'Angelo Misterioso said:

Weird to see two Imperial Japanese tied up in the place of Toro and some damsel in distress

yes... wonder whats going on there?  A terrific cover none the less. It's a tough book with only 27 total cgc graded.

Those are Chinese soldiers being tortured by the Japanese.

[Badger]

On 2/24/2023 at 6:21 PM, sartrexpress said:

yes... wonder whats going on there?  A terrific cover none the less. It's a tough book with only 27 total cgc graded.

They are not Japanese; they are Chinese. That symbol on their caps is the Symbol of Chiang Kai Shek's Nationalist army which retreated to the island of Taiwan.