PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[Midnightowl-migration]

The only thing I would add would be that in order to place someone on the probation list you would have to actually wait the 30 days. So, for example, I can have a 7 day payment policy in my sales thread. If someone doesn't pay within that time frame then I'm able to cancel the transaction and move forward. But, I wouldn't be able to nominate the individual for the probation list.

[miraclemet]

I take one day off... and look at the Probation thread! Such entertainment to get thru...

 

The original question from @nocutename was "How long do we currently have to wait for payment?"

 

The terms of the purchase did not specify timing at the time of purchase (either in the PMs or in the sale thread). There are no default timelines for transactions to be completed. Nothing is stated in the Usage Guidelines . Where there is a timing component listed is in the Probation Rules. So essentially a transaction can take any amount of time, but after 30 days the seller can nominate for PL if there's been no payment, and similarly the buyer can PL nominate if the deal hits 30 days without the books being shipped (granted the interpretation of "completed" can go a few different ways between book shipped, book received, etc, but I like to use shipped since that's the last thing that the seller has under his/her full control).

 

So again back to @nocutename's original question "How long do we currently have to wait for payment?" In function, the seller technically has up to 30 days to pay you before they could be nominated for PL (yes in reality that means if s/he takes the full 30 to pay, there's no way for the transaction to be completed in 30 days, but that's about the only way to read the rule without dipping into the huge variable of shipping time/USPS problems etc).

 

To the bigger question of can sellers dictate non 30 day payment requirements. The answer has to be yes. In function there have been plenty of sales with more prescriptive requirements than the forum dictates. Whether that's Paypal fees, shipping dictum (priory boxed only), or payment timings. There have been numerous "I need some cash fast to pay for a book/pay for bills, payment needed in 3 days", and if you commit to a purchase in that thread, you are buying based on those rules, and should be held to them.

 

As people have pointed out, this is a part time hobby to many, so they may state a purchase intent, and not be back to the boards for days (or the following weekend), thus violating the specific sales thread purchase agreement. But if they were so gung-ho to buy, shouldn't they be ready to pay, same time?

 

Its tough, I see both sides, but I think the sellers have a right to set the terms of their sales (at the time of posting, and in the same public way as they are posting the sale itself), and the buyer gets to decide if s/he wants to purchase in a thread and abide by those rules.

 

The question then is, if we were to amend the Probation rule with the language about transactions having 30 days to complete "unless otherwise stated in the specific sales thread requirements" does that mean that for the "3 day payment" threads the buyer could immediately be nominated at the end of the 3 days? I would venture to say yes.

 

Again back to the OPs case, since those terms were not specified in the thread the buyer has the standard 30 day window.

[comicdonna]

I would say no to the last question. 3 days should never be enough, to nominate someone for probation.

[skypinkblu]

I take one day off... and look at the Probation thread! Such entertainment to get thru...

 

The original question from @nocutename was "How long do we currently have to wait for payment?"

 

The terms of the purchase did not specify timing at the time of purchase (either in the PMs or in the sale thread). There are no default timelines for transactions to be completed. Nothing is stated in the Usage Guidelines . Where there is a timing component listed is in the Probation Rules. So essentially a transaction can take any amount of time, but after 30 days the seller can nominate for PL if there's been no payment, and similarly the buyer can PL nominate if the deal hits 30 days without the books being shipped (granted the interpretation of "completed" can go a few different ways between book shipped, book received, etc, but I like to use shipped since that's the last thing that the seller has under his/her full control).

 

So again back to @nocutename's original question "How long do we currently have to wait for payment?" In function, the seller technically has up to 30 days to pay you before they could be nominated for PL (yes in reality that means if s/he takes the full 30 to pay, there's no way for the transaction to be completed in 30 days, but that's about the only way to read the rule without dipping into the huge variable of shipping time/USPS problems etc).

 

To the bigger question of can sellers dictate non 30 day payment requirements. The answer has to be yes. In function there have been plenty of sales with more prescriptive requirements than the forum dictates. Whether that's Paypal fees, shipping dictum (priory boxed only), or payment timings. There have been numerous "I need some cash fast to pay for a book/pay for bills, payment needed in 3 days", and if you commit to a purchase in that thread, you are buying based on those rules, and should be held to them.

 

As people have pointed out, this is a part time hobby to many, so they may state a purchase intent, and not be back to the boards for days (or the following weekend), thus violating the specific sales thread purchase agreement. But if they were so gung-ho to buy, shouldn't they be ready to pay, same time?

 

Its tough, I see both sides, but I think the sellers have a right to set the terms of their sales (at the time of posting, and in the same public way as they are posting the sale itself), and the buyer gets to decide if s/he wants to purchase in a thread and abide by those rules.

 

The question then is, if we were to amend the Probation rule with the language about transactions having 30 days to complete "unless otherwise stated in the specific sales thread requirements" does that mean that for the "3 day payment" threads the buyer could immediately be nominated at the end of the 3 days? I would venture to say yes.

 

Again back to the OPs case, since those terms were not specified in the thread the buyer has the standard 30 day window.

 

Very well written (wish I could writel that clearly) . However, I agree with Mike, 3 days is too short a time period for probation nomination. YIKES can you imagine how many pages this would be?

 

I'd rather see something where after 3 ,10, 14 days (whatever is specified in the ad) the SELLER can relist the book without fear of being put on the probation list. For sellers who don't list a time period, then it's 30 days.

[miraclemet]

... However, I agree with Mike, 3 days is too short a time period for probation nomination. YIKES can you imagine how many pages this would be?

 

I'd rather see something where after 3 ,10, 14 days (whatever is specified in the ad) the SELLER can relist the book without fear of being put on the probation list. For sellers who don't list a time period, then it's 30 days.[/color]

 

Yes I agree too, 3 days is a really tight time frame, and a bit ridiculous to expect all to be able to accomplish since this is (for some) just a part time hobby, and as we all know many of us (though not all) have lives outside of comics/comic forums.

 

I agree the reasonable middle ground is that the seller can relist a book once his term date has passed and fear not the probation list, but does that also free the original buyer from any possible PL nomination?

 

And does merely relisting it cancel the prior obligation, or would it require the book to actually sell? [i would assume relisting, since that is more cut and dried]

[skypinkblu]

... However, I agree with Mike, 3 days is too short a time period for probation nomination. YIKES can you imagine how many pages this would be?

 

I'd rather see something where after 3 ,10, 14 days (whatever is specified in the ad) the SELLER can relist the book without fear of being put on the probation list. For sellers who don't list a time period, then it's 30 days.[/color]

 

Yes I agree too, 3 days is a really tight time frame, and a bit ridiculous to expect all to be able to accomplish since this is (for some) just a part time hobby, and as we all know many of us (though not all) have lives outside of comics/comic forums.

 

I agree the reasonable middle ground is that the seller can relist a book once his term date has passed and fear not the probation list, but does that also free the original buyer from any possible PL nomination?

 

And does merely relisting it cancel the prior obligation, or would it require the book to actually sell? [i would assume relisting, since that is more cut and dried]

 

Good point. This is why I liked it simple, . I await other's opinions, because I sure don't know the answer.

[comicdonna]

This is the problem. If a seller lists a specific time that payment is due and is not met by the purchaser, is the buyer eligible for probation?

 

To make this work correctly, the probation rules would need to be modified. As someone sugested, 2 weeks to pay/2weeks to ship.

 

Now, what if a seller states that payment is due within 1 week? I don't see a rght way to fix this so a deadbeat buyer can't slip through some of the loopholes.

[Ryan.]

There could be an overriding PL Rule (30 days) where a deadbeat buyer/seller gets nominated.

 

There could also then be a Stated Rules in Each Unique Sales Thread Rule where, whatever the seller states to be his/her rules, the seller is free to relist items if the buyer does not pay within the stated time frame but the buyer cannot be nominated for the PL.

 

The problem with this, of course, is that some buyers will inevitably click the I'll Take It, change their mind, and just wait out the seller's time frame without fear of the PL. However, the seller would know to cut that buyer out of future transactions and, when relisting the item, could state something like, "Item relisted due to non-payment".

[Bosco685]

And does merely relisting it cancel the prior obligation, or would it require the book to actually sell? [i would assume relisting, since that is more cut and dried]

 

I think the relisting cuts off any further concerns. But then, what if the item doesn't sell at the original price, and leads to a discount required to close the second deal. Does that lead to the previous buyer being on-the-hook for the difference?

 

[Bio-Rupp]

And does merely relisting it cancel the prior obligation, or would it require the book to actually sell? [i would assume relisting, since that is more cut and dried]

 

I think the relisting cuts off any further concerns. But then, what if the item doesn't sell at the original price, and leads to a discount required to close the second deal. Does that lead to the previous buyer being on-the-hook for the difference?

 

 

me head hurt

[Bosco685]

And does merely relisting it cancel the prior obligation, or would it require the book to actually sell? [i would assume relisting, since that is more cut and dried]

 

I think the relisting cuts off any further concerns. But then, what if the item doesn't sell at the original price, and leads to a discount required to close the second deal. Does that lead to the previous buyer being on-the-hook for the difference?

 

 

me head hurt

 

[bababooey]

Seller rules take precedence over PL rules with regard to timing. If a seller indicates something like:

 

I reserve the right re-list any books not paid for 10 days after invoicing.

 

The buyer who hasn't paid after the 10 days is only released of his obligation if the item is re-listed. If the item is not re-listed he goes on list according to 30 day rule.

 

In general a transaction can be broken down by the following actions:

Take it -> Invoice -> Payment -> Shipment -> Receipt

 

The first three 'should' happen fairly quickly (depending on the thread) and as a buyer I'd prefer that anything I paid for is shipped within a week of my payment.

 

[nocutename]

So I just sent a separate PM with notice that I payment is due by Sunday 3/24. I sorry but 16 days with three full weekends is plenty of time to come up with $18. I can understand that he is not on the boards often but I was approached after my sale. This isn't a case where he never read any invoice PM. He accepted my counter and I provided my paypal information within 2 hours of his acceptance. I am not waiting until April to list these books. That is unfair to ask of any seller.

 

On a side note, this deal was done after my sales thread so if I did have any rules technically, that would not hold water as it would have been a separate deal.

 

I didn't even think to mention that payment would be due by X number of days as again he approached me and he has been here since 2008. Also, he has read the PM with my paypal account info so he knows how to remit payment. I had sent a request to let me know if he is interested 5 days later hasn't been read yet.

 

So we'll see if he reads the new PM.

 

 

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Either way, by just bringing the matter up on the Probation discussion, that in itself is like a public hearing, where those who participate here are judge and jury in a way and the offended party is the executioner.

 

^^ ^^ ^^ ^^

 

[pwog]

Ok, so it hasn't been 30 days yet, but I had a sales thread (now closed). A boardie PMs me about a book. I respond with the price. He agrees, asks for total and my Paypal address. I responded back with my invoice, I haven't heard from boardie again. I have made a couple attempts to contact with no response. It has been 22 days since the above exchange. I'm not sure if it's appropriate at this point to name the boardie. However, I would like to put the boardie on notice publicly that if after 30 days I don't receive payment I will move that the boardie be placed on the probation list.The boardie in question has only 3 posts. It looks as if he pulled the same thing with another member's sales thread. As it stands now I am sitting on a book that I may be able to sell elsewhere, but I am bound by the rules to wait my 30 days plus 3 before that book is free and clear.

 

Do I call out the boardie publicly now or wait for the 30 days to pass?

 

Thanks!

[Boboset]

I would wait for 30 days to pass before outing him. After the 30 days, make sure you follow through here.

 

I'm probably being too nice, but if we strictly follow the rules then this is how it should go.

 

Good Luck.

[Giroux]

if you pay someone for books and its been 15 days and I replie asking if they shipped yet/tracking number and no response? What should i do so I don't lose out on the money

[N/A]

Ask again. You have 45 days if you used PayPal ( assuming it was not Paypal personal)

[PovertyRow]

I would wait for 30 days to pass before outing him. After the 30 days, make sure you follow through here.

 

I'm probably being too nice, but if we strictly follow the rules then this is how it should go.

 

Good Luck.

 

There is a difference between "calling someone out" and nominating them for the PL/HOS. The rules say nothing about calling someone out. Only for nominating them for the PL/HOS.

 

If someone is reticent to call them out here in the Probation Discussions thread, they may feel better calling them out in the "GENERAL DISCUSSION - keep the other threads clean" thread here in Forum Only selling. Sometimes a simple "call out" gets excellent results.

[Boboset]

I would wait for 30 days to pass before outing him. After the 30 days, make sure you follow through here.

 

I'm probably being too nice, but if we strictly follow the rules then this is how it should go.

 

Good Luck.

 

There is a difference between "calling someone out" and nominating them for the PL/HOS. The rules say nothing about calling someone out. Only for nominating them for the PL/HOS.

 

If someone is reticent to call them out here in the Probation Discussions thread, they may feel better calling them out in the "GENERAL DISCUSSION - keep the other threads clean" thread here in Forum Only selling. Sometimes a simple "call out" gets excellent results.

 

Good points. I see that the OP followed your advice as well. I hope it helps, but the particulars of his deal led me to believe otherwise.