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Hulk #181 CGC 9.8...record GPA low

Started by RockMyAmadeus,

322 posts in this topic

RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

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Fake slabs...and even counterfeit books...are already being made.

 

Don't worry about giving thieves ideas...if it's possible, it's been thought of, by someone, somewhere. It's certainly easy to have identical slabs with proper cert numbers, grade, page desginations, etc.

 

That is why one should never, ever, ever pay for anything on eBay with anything but a creidt card, and not just any credit card, but a credit card that you KNOW and have RESEARCHED has a solid fraud protection process.

 

It is unfortunate that the hobby is now expensive enough to make it attractive to cons, but with some diligence, fraud can be avoided. Like I said, eBay's buyer protection has made some of us lazy, but so long as I've paid with the CC, all is well.

 

I've been scammed numerous times on eBay since 1998, and only one got away with it...and that was because I sent an MO in 1999 for $180. Sigh.

 

Otherwise, just call up the CC company and yank that money back out.

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Gotham Kid

Gotham Kid

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Fake slabs...and even counterfeit books...are already being made.

 

Don't worry about giving thieves ideas...if it's possible, it's been thought of, by someone, somewhere. It's certainly easy to have identical slabs with proper cert numbers, grade, page desginations, etc.

 

That is why one should never, ever, ever pay for anything on eBay with anything but a creidt card, and not just any credit card, but a credit card that you KNOW and have RESEARCHED has a solid fraud protection process.

 

It is unfortunate that the hobby is now expensive enough to make it attractive to cons, but with some diligence, fraud can be avoided. Like I said, eBay's buyer protection has made some of us lazy, but so long as I've paid with the CC, all is well.

 

Just call up the CC company and yank that money back out.

 

^^

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CR

CR

Posted
Posted
Fake slabs...and even counterfeit books...are already being made.

 

Don't worry about giving thieves ideas...if it's possible, it's been thought of, by someone, somewhere. It's certainly easy to have identical slabs with proper cert numbers, grade, page desginations, etc.

 

That is why one should never, ever, ever pay for anything on eBay with anything but a creidt card, and not just any credit card, but a credit card that you KNOW and have RESEARCHED has a solid fraud protection process.

 

It is unfortunate that the hobby is now expensive enough to make it attractive to cons, but with some diligence, fraud can be avoided. Like I said, eBay's buyer protection has made some of us lazy, but so long as I've paid with the CC, all is well.

 

Just call up the CC company and yank that money back out.

 

^^

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think charge backs reflect negatively on your credit score. (shrug)

 

I like to ruffle as few feathers as possible.

 

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The Kaptain

The Kaptain

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front.jpg

 

back.jpg

 

Certification # 0762545001

Grade Date 05/15/2006

Title Incredible Hulk

Issue 181

Issue Date 11/74

Publisher Marvel Comics

Country

Variant

Pedigree

Category Universal

Grade 8.0

Page Quality OFF-WHITE TO WHITE

Grade Text

Art Comments Len Wein story

Herb Trimpe and Jack Abel art

Herb Trimpe cover

Key Comments 1st full appearance of Wolverine.

Wendigo appearance.

Issue Year 1974

 

If the serial number matches an 8.0 and the book likely is an 8.0, I would say that this is a case of a misprinted label by CGC. Isn't the "9.6" printed on the label (not a sticker)? I have seem examples of CGC misprinting labels before, but I have never seen the grade misprinted before.

 

I would think that if he swapped labels, he would swap the entire label not just the number grade.

 

That's still a mystery for me; I'm not sure how that aspect was done.

 

However, I believe this was entirely intentional and not merely a misprint. The sticker on the 'spine' is in two pieces ...meaning the "Incredible Hulk #181" is separate fromthe "9.6". Also, I've just discovered only this morning that the "Incredible Hulk #181" portion is stuck over another sticker : "Wolverine: Origins #5".

 

So he took two labels (one for a 8.0 Hulk #181 and one for a 9.6 Wolverine Origins #5) - cut the 8.0 part from the Hulk #181 label, and then glued it on top of the Wolverine Origins #5 label?

 

Also, notice in the photo that the words "CGC" and "Grade" at the very top of the label are not even with the slab. It looks like he slipped the fake/incorrect/doctored label through the slit at the top of the slab??? I don't think any of the labels on my CGC books are uneven like this.

 

Therefore, my guess would be that he somehow tore the correct label out. Then he somehow got his hands on an undamaged label and was somehow able to slip it in through the slit at the top of the slab. I am guessing that the crack on the back of the slab allowed him to spread the slab open enough to get the label in and out.

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gadzukes

gadzukes

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Timmay, I'm the guy who bought one of the 9.8s from Estate liquidators. He doctored mine just like yours. In July he won an 8.5 Hulk 181 for around $900. That ebay auction is 330596236567. The CGC serial # from that auction is 1032729002.

 

In the auction I won he was showing a CGC 9.8 with a serial # 0956380004. When I got the 9.8 comic last week it had a spliced top label, a barely noticable crack at the bottom of the case, and what looks to be a 9.8 sticker put over the top of the 8.5 label. Also the same "blue sticker" carefully placed over the serial number to make it difficult to read the serial number. After carefully peeling back that little sticker I called cgc just to double check the serial number (because it was different from the one shown in the auction page). CGC confirmed that the serial number matched the 8.5 he had won in July.

 

I've explained all of this to ebay yet my case is still being investigated. To me it seems like this is a no brainer. I don't know what is taking them so long to find in my favor, especially with all the other cases against this guy!

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Brian48

Brian48

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I've explained all of this to ebay yet my case is still being investigated. To me it seems like this is a no brainer. I don't know what is taking them so long to find in my favor, especially with all the other cases against this guy!

 

It took over two months for me to resolve my issue and get my 2k back for the Orr rookie I mentioned. I did involve PSA though (they sent me a formal letter to pass onto PayPal). Not sure if CGC is willing to do this as well. This was insurance for me in case the dealer disappears and I would wind up dealing with just eBay and PayPal. I would then have formal documentation to back my case in that event.

 

Similar to your situation, the seller slightly cracked the slab of a lower grade card and then switched the labels. I didn't notice it until I actually got the card. When confronted with all this evidence, he still didn't want to send me a refund citing that he could no longer resell the card again (meaning, pass it onto another sucker). When I involved PSA, they took the card out of the slab and adjusted the serial # in their system, which was the correct thing to do.

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Jeffreykli

Jeffreykli

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If the serial number matches an 8.0 and the book likely is an 8.0, I would say that this is a case of a misprinted label by CGC. Isn't the "9.6" printed on the label (not a sticker)? I have seem examples of CGC misprinting labels before, but I have never seen the grade misprinted before.

 

I would think that if he swapped labels, he would swap the entire label not just the number grade.

 

There are two issues:

 

1. Top slab sticker: It appears that he had a Wolverine Origins CGC 9.6, and cut the "Incredible Hulk #181" portion of the 8.0 sticker to cover up the "Wolverine Origins".

--Not that big a deal, since it's only the label, but necessary to help cover up his fraud.

 

2. The interior blue label with the 9.6 grade and book information was somehow doctored. The 8.0 was turned into a 9.6, although the rest of the label is likely untouched (including the cert #). I'd like to know how he turned the 8.0 in the grade box into the 9.6. The label is supposed to be a single piece of paper, including the grade. The only thing added to the label is the CGC hologram. Is the "9.6" a sticker, or is something covering the original 8.0 in the box? If it's all a single piece of paper, then that's very troubling...

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mschmidt

mschmidt

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2. The interior blue label with the 9.6 grade and book information was somehow doctored. The 8.0 was turned into a 9.6, although the rest of the label is likely untouched (including the cert #). I'd like to know how he turned the 8.0 in the grade box into the 9.6. The label is supposed to be a single piece of paper, including the grade. The only thing added to the label is the CGC hologram. Is the "9.6" a sticker, or is something covering the original 8.0 in the box? If it's all a single piece of paper, then that's very troubling...

 

The label is a single piece of paper - the grade is not a sticker.

 

If you have a scanner & a color printer, it's really not that hard to manufacture your own CGC labels - you scan two labels:

 

labelscam-1.png

 

And simply copy the grade from one label to the other:

 

labelscam-2.png

 

If you're a smart scumbag scammer, you then tweak the CGC serial so it's actually valid for the book in question:

 

labelscam-3.png

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

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CGC's anti-fraud protection is actually pretty sophisticated, and with a few tweaks, would make it essentially not worth the time for counterfeiters. They'd rather focus on counterfeiting $100s, not fairly unique comic books.

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VintageComics

VintageComics

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Any chance we can get a name of the person who is running this scam?

 

Yeah, I'd like to see his name / mailing address as well.

 

estate_liquidators77 is his eBay handle.

 

Here's one of the auctions: Hulk 181 9.8

 

Just getting caught up here.

 

Has CGC been notified about this thread?

 

This is outright fraud with their product.

 

 

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