Hulk #181 CGC 9.8...record GPA low

[sufunk]

I was thinking the same thing. I assume CGC at this point has a legal team/lawyer handling things for them. Unlike most scams, this seems like one that CGC might want to get involved in.

[mintcollector]

This is the scariest thread I have ever read. I am truly sorry for your troubles. I will stick to either eBay sellers I know or Comic Link for my purchases...

[sufunk]

This is the scariest thread I have ever read. I am truly sorry for your troubles. I will stick to either eBay sellers I know or Comic Link for my purchases...

 

Who's to say someone a little more advanced than this guy couldn't fool comiclink?

 

This IS scary and the type of thIng that could hurt CGCs business. I definitely think they should be given a heads up and get involved in this one (thumbs u

[aelelarkin]

Eeeyikes!

That's some scary mess.

I've luckily never been a victim of fraud on eBay before, but I will certainly be looking at high value books more suspiciously than ever.

Alternatively, I could just keep buying books from trustworthy boardies!

[Warren Oates]

This is the scariest thread I have ever read. I am truly sorry for your troubles. I will stick to either eBay sellers I know or Comic Link for my purchases...

 

Who's to say someone a little more advanced than this guy couldn't fool comiclink?

 

This IS scary and the type of thIng that could hurt CGCs business. I definitely think they should be given a heads up and get involved in this one (thumbs u

 

I'm sure they have paid some attention. I think I recall from the thread last year somebody reported limited success in fishing labels without cracking the case. That may have been on older slabs though. Still troubling. If somebody was not so crude in their attempt as this one..

[mschmidt]

This is the scariest thread I have ever read. I am truly sorry for your troubles. I will stick to either eBay sellers I know or Comic Link for my purchases...

 

Who's to say someone a little more advanced than this guy couldn't fool comiclink?

 

This IS scary and the type of thIng that could hurt CGCs business. I definitely think they should be given a heads up and get involved in this one (thumbs u

 

I'm sure they have paid some attention. I think I recall from the thread last year somebody reported limited success in fishing labels without cracking the case. That may have been on older slabs though. Still troubling. If somebody was not so crude in their attempt as this one..

 

I've cracked a ton of "new label" books and have never been able to get access to the label without the corner posts shattering - unless CGC's quality control department screws up and sends out a slab that has been put together incorrectly, I just don't see how it can be done :shrug:

[silverweb]

Timmay, I'm the guy who bought one of the 9.8s from Estate liquidators. He doctored mine just like yours. In July he won an 8.5 Hulk 181 for around $900. That ebay auction is 330596236567. The CGC serial # from that auction is 1032729002.

 

In the auction I won he was showing a CGC 9.8 with a serial # 0956380004. When I got the 9.8 comic last week it had a spliced top label, a barely noticable crack at the bottom of the case, and what looks to be a 9.8 sticker put over the top of the 8.5 label. Also the same "blue sticker" carefully placed over the serial number to make it difficult to read the serial number. After carefully peeling back that little sticker I called cgc just to double check the serial number (because it was different from the one shown in the auction page). CGC confirmed that the serial number matched the 8.5 he had won in July.

 

I've explained all of this to ebay yet my case is still being investigated. To me it seems like this is a no brainer. I don't know what is taking them so long to find in my favor, especially with all the other cases against this guy!

 

If the accused has somehow slipped a bogus label inside the CGC case without cracking the posts, then CGC needs to immediately investigate this by examining the book themselves and make appropriate changes to their encapsulation process!

[Jeffreykli]

2. The interior blue label with the 9.6 grade and book information was somehow doctored. The 8.0 was turned into a 9.6, although the rest of the label is likely untouched (including the cert #). I'd like to know how he turned the 8.0 in the grade box into the 9.6. The label is supposed to be a single piece of paper, including the grade. The only thing added to the label is the CGC hologram. Is the "9.6" a sticker, or is something covering the original 8.0 in the box? If it's all a single piece of paper, then that's very troubling...

 

The label is a single piece of paper - the grade is not a sticker.

 

If you have a scanner & a color printer, it's really not that hard to manufacture your own CGC labels - you scan two labels:

 

 

And simply copy the grade from one label to the other:

 

 

If you're a smart scumbag scammer, you then tweak the CGC serial so it's actually valid for the book in question:

 

 

Thanks, Mike. That's what I was missing; it didn't occur to me to scan and reprint with a color printer.

 

Lesson learned: Be very wary of CGC slabs with broken posts.

[PolarSilver]

Timmay, I'm the guy who bought one of the 9.8s from Estate liquidators. He doctored mine just like yours. In July he won an 8.5 Hulk 181 for around $900. That ebay auction is 330596236567. The CGC serial # from that auction is 1032729002.

 

In the auction I won he was showing a CGC 9.8 with a serial # 0956380004. When I got the 9.8 comic last week it had a spliced top label, a barely noticable crack at the bottom of the case, and what looks to be a 9.8 sticker put over the top of the 8.5 label. Also the same "blue sticker" carefully placed over the serial number to make it difficult to read the serial number. After carefully peeling back that little sticker I called cgc just to double check the serial number (because it was different from the one shown in the auction page). CGC confirmed that the serial number matched the 8.5 he had won in July.

 

I've explained all of this to ebay yet my case is still being investigated. To me it seems like this is a no brainer. I don't know what is taking them so long to find in my favor, especially with all the other cases against this guy!

 

Dude...I've escalated my PayPal case for a refund as well. With two of us pursuing this against the same seller it should especially be a no brainer. Let me know how you make out. If you want to exchange email addresses, let me know.

[PolarSilver]

You lose the watermarking on the number portion of the label.

 

 

There is an indication of the watermarking on the number portion...it may have been picked up by the scanner and printed in a light grey...I'm not sure.

[PolarSilver]

Any chance we can get a name of the person who is running this scam?

 

Yeah, I'd like to see his name / mailing address as well.

 

estate_liquidators77 is his eBay handle.

 

Here's one of the auctions: Hulk 181 9.8

 

 

 

'estate_liquidators77' is his new name. He was 'undacuvahunta' around August 1st

[Gotham Kid]

This is a critical thread... Although I suspect that not enough board members are reading up on it as it is in the Bronze Section. Not to downplay Bronze but there may be a large number of board members that probably don't come to this section. I feel this should be shared with all and opinionated by all. This affects us all as a collecting community.

 

[silverweb]

Yes, the slab is cracked. Also, the sticker on the top edge with the '9.6' is separate (cut in the middle) from the title 'Hulk 181'. The serial number doesn't matche the '9.6' but instead matches a '8.0'.

 

Sorry, I did not catch this earlier along with the picture. Cracked slab = label swap

 

What a "spoon". Hope you get your money back soon!

 

Lessons learned: get a back cover scan if possible, pay with credit card, don't trust anyone with Private Feedback.

 

[namisgr]

Any chance we can get a name of the person who is running this scam?

 

Yeah, I'd like to see his name / mailing address as well.

 

estate_liquidators77 is his eBay handle.

 

Here's one of the auctions: Hulk 181 9.8

 

For this completed auction, it is readily apparent that the serial number has been doctored using Photoshop. I reported the auction to E-Bay as fraudulent, for what that's worth.

 

This thread points out some valuable lessons for buying off E-Bay, besides the obvious one of avoiding sellers with private and poor feedback:

 

- Look over the scans of the labels carefully, paying close attention to the serial number and watermark

- Look over the scans of the front and back covers carefully

[mintcollector]

This is the scariest thread I have ever read. I am truly sorry for your troubles. I will stick to either eBay sellers I know or Comic Link for my purchases...

 

Who's to say someone a little more advanced than this guy couldn't fool comiclink?

 

This IS scary and the type of thIng that could hurt CGCs business. I definitely think they should be given a heads up and get involved in this one (thumbs u

 

I figure for how much time Comic Link spends putting their name label on each and every CGC book I buy; they can at least spend some time looking over them as well...

 

That being said, I have gotten some damaged slabs from Comic Link as well. Nothing too major, but some that needed to be reholdered ASAP...

[RockMyAmadeus]

You lose the watermarking on the number portion of the label.

 

 

There is an indication of the watermarking on the number portion...it may have been picked up by the scanner and printed in a light grey...I'm not sure.

 

So, was it a sticker, or a homemade label?

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

There's really no need to be frightened, here.

 

Simple precautions will take care of nearly every problem.

 

1. Pay with a credit card.

 

2. Know the label, including security features.

 

3. Know what a "typical representative" for that grade would look like.

 

4. Confirm Cert numbers.

 

5. Carefully examine slabs for anything suspicious like cracks or loose stickers.

 

6. Check previous auction appearances for identifiers, if possible.

 

And if you're spending enough on a book to worry about the loss, you should be doing this homework anyways.

[Warren Oates]

What if they fish the label on an old slab? Say they yank out 9.6 slight resto, then put in a 9.6 U, and they know a legit serial to put with it. And you just bought the book at a con, and were conned!

 

Sorry playing devil's advocate.

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

What if they fish the label on an old slab? Say they yank out 9.6 slight resto, then put in a 9.6 U, and they know a legit serial to put with it. And you just bought the book at a con, and were conned!

 

Sorry playing devil's advocate.

 

 

I already explained that. To make a label that overcomes the security features would be very difficult, and "fishing out a label" sounds much, much easier than it actually is. Do you think no one's thought of this before now...?

[PolarSilver]

You lose the watermarking on the number portion of the label.

 

 

There is an indication of the watermarking on the number portion...it may have been picked up by the scanner and printed in a light grey...I'm not sure.

 

So, was it a sticker, or a homemade label?

 

 

I just took a closer look. I think it's a 9.6 sticker stuck (glued?) on a genuine CGC label.