Pressing

[shrunkenhead]

Im curious what others will say in the morning when they chime in. If Im greatly outnumbered, Il\\ promics I'lll drink the Kool Aid too and stop being so negative. Okay?

 

Till morning, then. I'm off to bed.

[Aman619]

For the record, I have never had any work done on my comics. I hate restoration. I HAVE bought books with work unknowingly and Im pissed about it. In recent years I have bought a bunch of slabbed books and hope none were pressed. But I have no idea if they were, same as CGC. I believe 100% that pressing IS restoration. I WISH CGC could or would detect it.

 

The best suggestion here tonight was working to catch pressing done to Pedigree books because they are traceable. THAT would be a greta start. Also, if your suggestions of everyone disclosing which slabbed books they know have been pressed could work if they would post the serial #s of the books when they own up. That way we could trace them, and, if anyone wanted to "wash" them and put them back into circulation, they have to pay to have then reslabbed so it would be a bit more cosly for them to do so.

[The Brain]

no one here wants you to"drink the Kool Aid", ala Jim Jones. But again it is about choice. if a dealler or seller will NOT

 

back with a refund that what they sell IS what they say it is DON'T BUY IT .

 

Lets pick this up in the AM. Good Night For Now.

[Aman619]

wait - - since its undetectable, whats to stop ALL dealers from signing the pledge??? You should be after the pressers to stop doing it. that way the maateur wokr might be more detectable for CGC.

[Red Hook]

oh, and peace in the world too, please!!!!

 

Does anyone here really expecy the honor system to suddenly replace the greed system everpresent in our hobby, and all aspects of life?? Even if we all try really hard???

 

If buyers continue to make an increasingly larger stink about it, yes. There's been a shift already. Go back a year on the boards. You'll be amazed. We were debating whether dealers were even doing pressing at all. A year later, it's an accepted fact that they do.

 

And it's not that dealers are going to do it out of the goodness of their heart. They'll end up deciding that it's better for business.

 

Look, I've said this several times......dealers are their own worst enemy on this. The logic disconnect goes like this......

 

 

Dealer: " There's nothing wrong with pressing. It's not restoration. It doesn't do any damage to the book."

 

Query: " So you approve of pressing, and have no trouble admitting that you're doing it, right?"

 

Dealer: "Hey, look over there, at the funny monkey!"

 

[nik]

oh, and peace in the world too, please!!!!

 

Does anyone here really expecy the honor system to suddenly replace the greed system everpresent in our hobby, and all aspects of life?? Even if we all try really hard???

 

Its all about the "benjamins"

[blazingbob]

Boy what a Post.

 

Can I change the topic and ask that all sellers of their comic books take a HONESTY oath. That when they promise to sell me something they really do it!

 

Instead of labeling all dealers crooks they actually deal with me and determine that for themselves. That they look in the mirror and take judgment of themselves before they take the holy high road and become God passing judgment about business practices and how we are all pressing books making loads of money. I don't see too many dealers riding around in Mercedes Benz with hot chicks on their arms smoking cigars lit with $100 bills. I also don't see us hanging on the corner with our bling bling and fancy suits parading down the red carpet at oscar time.

 

.

[drbanner]

Boy what a Post.

 

Can I change the topic and ask that all sellers of their comic books take a HONESTY oath. That when they promise to sell me something they really do it!

 

Instead of labeling all dealers crooks they actually deal with me and determine that for themselves. That they look in the mirror and take judgment of themselves before they take the holy high road and become God passing judgment about business practices and how we are all pressing books making loads of money. I don't see too many dealers riding around in Mercedes Benz with hot chicks on their arms smoking cigars lit with $100 bills. I also don't see us hanging on the corner with our bling bling and fancy suits parading down the red carpet at oscar time.

 

.

 

I see a photoshop opportunity in the making!

 

I haven't read 100% of the posts in this thread, but if there was really a proposal that dealers take some kind of oath or become "certified" that they do/do not press their books then that is simply hilarious. I picture myself at Heroes Con this summer walking up to some random dealer with the following exchange:

 

Me: "I love this book, but before I buy it can I please see your Pressing Disclosure Certification Statement?"

 

Dealer: "WTF are you talking about!?!?"

 

Ain't gonna happen, no way, no how...

[Red Hook]

Boy what a Post.

 

Can I change the topic and ask that all sellers of their comic books take a HONESTY oath. That when they promise to sell me something they really do it!

 

Instead of labeling all dealers crooks they actually deal with me and determine that for themselves. That they look in the mirror and take judgment of themselves before they take the holy high road and become God passing judgment about business practices and how we are all pressing books making loads of money. I don't see too many dealers riding around in Mercedes Benz with hot chicks on their arms smoking cigars lit with $100 bills. I also don't see us hanging on the corner with our bling bling and fancy suits parading down the red carpet at oscar time.

 

.

 

Bob, you're just not getting yourself on the right guest lists!

 

http://users2.ev1.net/~davistud/halperin/jim50bday/PB022380-pp.JPG

[Ze-man]

Boy what a Post.

 

Can I change the topic and ask that all sellers of their comic books take a HONESTY oath. That when they promise to sell me something they really do it!

 

Instead of labeling all dealers crooks they actually deal with me and determine that for themselves. That they look in the mirror and take judgment of themselves before they take the holy high road and become God passing judgment about business practices and how we are all pressing books making loads of money. I don't see too many dealers riding around in Mercedes Benz with hot chicks on their arms smoking cigars lit with $100 bills. I also don't see us hanging on the corner with our bling bling and fancy suits parading down the red carpet at oscar time.

 

.

 

 

To be clear Bob.. are you saying in a round about way that you have not recently(in the past year or so) sent any books in to a restorer to be NDP pressed , ship them off to have them slabbed, then sell those books on your site?

 

I guess I am flat out asking you, for the record

 

 

What cracks me up as I re read this thread.. is that I have been told by many long time dealers/collectors that the practice of PRESSING books has been around a loooonnng time. So we have no idea the amount of books we currently own that might have had pressing work previously done.

no harm no foul.. just shame shame on the greedy motivated seller back then.

 

So with that said...because back then only the dealers and a few small handfull of people even knew about pressing a book. So NOBODY knew they were buying books that were pressed.

Fast foward to todays market.. it seems alot more of the collecting population is aware of what pressing is. But we still have no dam way of knowing if a book we are buying has had pressing work done to it.

 

The only way I know of for pressing to be policed /tracked is if all the restorers get together, decide as a group to take a stance on pressing. And not only disclose to the submitter the book the info that it was pressed.. but also to place that information on their website, similar to a visual catalog that lists every book they worked on. And what was done to the book.

Of course this is a huge pipedream.. and will not likely ever happen. But since THEY are the people doing work to the books.. THEY have the ability to police/track this issue.

So they say.. "Well I told the client what was done to the book.. after that it is out of my hands.. I cannot control is he chooses to pass along this info to future clients."

Pressing is not considered resto.. but will also be frowned upon by many potential buyers..so most sellers will never reveal any work was done to the books. Well to me all that just smacks of a snowjob. Do not try and tell me differently

For restorers to keep this info private, or non public.. to protect their clients interest is horse hockey. If what they are doing is not a bad thing.. then why the need to be so hush hush about it?

 

I know, I know.. then the people who make a living at working on funny books will see a drop off in submission/commisions.

 

Well..as I see it. With the current situation as it stands today.

 

Dealers/restorers 1

Collectors/buyers 0

 

 

I am not trying to blast people who restore comics.. I think it is an art.. and a true skill. Or say this is how everyone does business.

There are plenty of innocent people, and restorers who get work done on a book to preserve it, and keep in their collections.

We are talking about PRESSING only. Since it cannot be detected by anyone.. it is being abused in the fashion we are all recently talking about.

With the current set up as we have it today. They work on the books.. tell the seller what was done. Then in most cases that information is lost forever.

And anytime I see a group of people wanting to try and keep a lid on something.. well usually there is something under that lid worth knowing.

 

 

 

 

Ze-

 

 

Edit.. as others have said.. look back a year and see what we were talking about. so I hope a year from now we can look back at these threads and see how they , in a small way affected our hobby in a positively.

Education/Discusion on any level is a wonderful thing..

[DiceX]

This is my funny book! There are many like it, but this one is mine! My funny book is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it, like I master my life. Without me, my funny book is useless. Without my funny book, I am useless. I must press my funny book true! I must press straighter than my enemy who is trying to price gouge me. I must screw him before he screws me! I will! Before God, I swear this creed...My funny book and myself are defenders of my country. We are the masters of our enemy. We are the saviors of my life! So be it! Until there is no restoration! But Peace! And that!

[Red Hook]

 

To be clear Bob.. are you saying in a round about way that you have not recently(in the past year or so) sent any books in to a restorer to be NDP pressed , ship them off to have them slabbed, then sell those books on your site?

 

I guess I am flat out asking you, for the record

 

 

Even Cotton Mather feels this is a bit over-zealous and unfair to ask.

[Ze-man]

 

To be clear Bob.. are you saying in a round about way that you have not recently(in the past year or so) sent any books in to a restorer to be NDP pressed , ship them off to have them slabbed, then sell those books on your site?

 

I guess I am flat out asking you, for the record

 

 

Even Cotton Mather feels this is a bit over-zealous and unfair to ask.

 

==========================================================

Was not meant to be a personal attack on ol' Bobby.. he was the one who said..

 

Can I change the topic and ask that all sellers of their comic books take a HONESTY oath

 

 

So I took him up on it.. and asked a simple question.

 

 

Ze-Mather

[Red Hook]

I thought he was being....um....like...ironic?

[Ze-man]

I thought he was being....um....like...ironic?

 

Of course he was.. He was just being grumpy Bobby.

I was just being a .. um..eerrr..an insufficiently_thoughtful_person.

 

Besides.. it was just one little question.

 

He can roast me.. give me a verbal whupin if he wants.

 

 

 

Ze-

[skybolt]

Aman, you and I are in agreement. Like yourself, I'm completely against pressing, and will never ever have my books pressed. However, here are a few problems with disclosing pressing for certain books:

 

- If the book is a Pedigree and was initially graded as 9.0 by CGC, but someone had it pressed to a 9.6 and reslabbed. Since the only way to track that book is due to its Pedigree status, then what's to stop the seller from taking it out its slab and resubmitting it as a non-Pedigree. How many Pedigree books would be lost in the shuffle due to people's greed. I realize that even a pressed Edgar Church book is worth more in 9.0 condition than a regular book in 9.6 condition, but how many other Pedigrees can we say this about. I would hate to see Pedigree books take the brunt of the attack, while other pressed books fly under the radar and still sell for multiples of guide.

 

- I purchase a book from a major dealer at 1.25 X guide, 2 years later I find out that the dealer I bought it from has been pressing his books for years, and my books were probably candidates. I turn around and disclose this information to everyone, and the book sells for 50% guide. The next person takes the book and sells it at 1.25 X guide (as unrestored) and makes a killing on the purchase. Is this person being dishonest, of course. However, since CGC can't detect it, it's his word against mine. I can already see these crooks lining up to buy disclosed pressed books to turn around and sell them as a profit, while honest people suffer the consequences.

 

If pressing is detected in the future, then I'm sure the dynamics would change, and I would be one of the first people to have my books checked and disclosed. Until that day happens, I'm not going to play a gussing game since I purchased some books from a dealer that presses their books, but has no records.

[Red Hook]

He can roast me.. give me a verbal whupin if he wants.

 

 

 

Ze-

 

Hmmm......might be time to make that therapist's appointment. I don't like this expressing of a desire for punishment thing going on.......

[DiceX]

I think you nutjobs should stop buying comics and start buying original art.

[Red Hook]

 

If the book is a Pedigree and was initially graded as 9.0 by CGC, but someone had it pressed to a 9.6 and reslabbed. Since the only way to track that book is due to its Pedigree status, then what's to stop the seller from taking it out its slab and resubmitting it as a non-Pedigree. How many Pedigree books would be lost in the shuffle due to people's greed. I realize that even a pressed Edgar Church book is worth more in 9.0 condition than a regular book in 9.6 condition, but how many other Pedigrees can we say this about. I would hate to see Pedigree books take the brunt of the attack, while other pressed books fly under the radar and still sell for multiples of guide.

 

Why would the dealer bother to deny the pedigree status of a pressed/resubbed book? There are plenty of buyers out there for highgrade peds. I just don't see this as a likely scenario. The pedigrees with distinctive markings, date stamps, handwriting, etc., haven't suffered from being resubbed as far as I can tell. There is always someone who honestly doesn't care and just wants the book.

[skybolt]

 

If the book is a Pedigree and was initially graded as 9.0 by CGC, but someone had it pressed to a 9.6 and reslabbed. Since the only way to track that book is due to its Pedigree status, then what's to stop the seller from taking it out its slab and resubmitting it as a non-Pedigree. How many Pedigree books would be lost in the shuffle due to people's greed. I realize that even a pressed Edgar Church book is worth more in 9.0 condition than a regular book in 9.6 condition, but how many other Pedigrees can we say this about. I would hate to see Pedigree books take the brunt of the attack, while other pressed books fly under the radar and still sell for multiples of guide.

 

Why would the dealer bother to deny the pedigree status of a pressed/resubbed book? There are plenty of buyers out there for highgrade peds. I just don't see this as a likely scenario. The pedigrees with distinctive markings, date stamps, handwriting, etc., haven't suffered from being resubbed as far as I can tell. There is always someone who honestly doesn't care and just wants the book.

 

Let's for the sake of argument say I purchased a Pedigreed SA book in 9.0 condition for $1,000. I then had it pressed to a 9.6, and resubmitted it to CGC without proof that it's a Pedigree. I then turn around and sell the untraceable book for $5,000 on eBay. There are a lot more people out there that'll pay multiples for 9.6 key SA book vs. a Pedigree book in 9.0 condition. By the way, I'm being hypothetical here, I'd never do such a thing.