Pressing

[Mr. Zipper]

I wonder what this persons seller id is.....

 

Ebay ...and another

 

Onemillioncomics won 2 presses

 

Well, that is a lot of comics... they'll probably need even more presses.

 

Just monitor the utility grid for power drains. It's either indoor pot greenhouses or onemillioncomics firing up all his presses.

[Crackandpresstoan11]

And if Metro didn't buy a press despite Hammer's allegation to the contrary, then Vince or Steve by all means set us straight. Of course, neither of you are under any obligation to do so. And I am not going to be so bold to put you on the spot and ask why you purchased it or whether you are using it on your books. Nevertheless, your decision to, or not to, post on this thread will enable the board members to reach their own conclusions.

 

I'm confused. I thought you wanted full disclosure on all pressed books, even going so far as to suggest dealers sign disclosure statements for you when you make purchases. You have been very vocal on the topic and I am not sure why you would not want to ask Metro if they have bought presses for the sole purpose of pressing books ( I am assuming you do business with them). Just for the record I do not view pressing as resto and as of yet there have been no posts to convince me otherwise.

[esquirecomics]

And if Metro didn't buy a press despite Hammer's allegation to the contrary, then Vince or Steve by all means set us straight. Of course, neither of you are under any obligation to do so. And I am not going to be so bold to put you on the spot and ask why you purchased it or whether you are using it on your books. Nevertheless, your decision to, or not to, post on this thread will enable the board members to reach their own conclusions.

 

I'm confused. I thought you wanted full disclosure on all pressed books, even going so far as to suggest dealers sign disclosure statements for you when you make purchases. You have been very vocal on the topic and I am not sure why you would not want to ask Metro if they have bought presses for the sole purpose of pressing books ( I am assuming you do business with them). Just for the record I do not view pressing as resto and as of yet there have been no posts to convince me otherwise.

 

I'm being politely professional by not placing them on the spot.

 

I like Vince and Steve, and I would be happy to do business with them. We've discussed many transactions but have never solidified one yet. If we ever do, and hopefully we will, I will directly ask them whether the book(s) they are trying to sell me has been pressed. I'll then weigh their answer, whatever it might be.

 

All pressing should be disclosed, whether considered restoration or not. Without repeating too much that I've said above, I absolutely encourage every dealer/seller to make a pledge to not press books OR if they do press books to disclose their actions. Of course, we cannot require or compel anyone to abide by either of these requests and post their response or "confessions" on the boards.

 

HOWEVER, next time "you" are about to make a purchase, do so - if you care about this issue - contingent on the dealer/seller making the pledge in writing to "your" satisfaction. If this still starts occurring, I am confident there will be a sea change.

[Ze-man]

Well Mark.. I am not so polite.

Hence why I asked B.Bob if he had recently pressed books after he made his ironic OATH post earlier in this thread.

 

And of course he did not answer me,,and Red gave me a for asking such a thing.

 

Well I for one do not give a hoot about being polite, or putting people(sellers) on the spot

If CGC say's nothing is wrong with pressing a book. And it is NOT considered restoration by the majority of the collecting community , then what is the big deal?

Why do we still have to tip toe around the subject?

 

Because it might hurt a sellers reputation?.. or feelings?

Boo-- Hoo

 

Oh wait.. I remember.. because a seller does not want to ever admit he passed off books he willingly knew were pressed, let alone by himself on his own machine.

 

Sadly in this case.. instead of everyone being innocent until they are proven otherwise.. I fear it is the opposite.

 

I am assuming almost EVERY major dealer has , or is pressing books in some form or another.. it just appears to be that rampant, and too lucrative to NOT do it. And since nobody can detect the dang thing. It makes it all the more easy for a seller to press books to reach higher profits.

I am not saying EVERY seller does this.. but the more I hear, and read it sure seems like a large % has.. and IS. Even if they choose to not come forth and admit it.. declare it.. or disclose it.

I really have no idea of what % actually do it, nor will I ever.

 

Sorry to come accross as a rant... but this really chaps my backside.

 

Why on god's green earth should I give a crahp if I put a seller on the spot and ask him if he press's books.. or has bought a pressing machine recently?

He sure does not mind pressing a 9.2 into a 9.4 and taking more of my money.

He can say no..take a chance he might be found out.

Or admit he does in certain cases, see how the cookie crumbles.

But I for one am not afraid to ask, now .. or a year from now.

Nothing is THAT taboo. And nobody should be unaproachable if they really are in the business to serve the public.

 

Because even if there are just a few sellers, even a few among us who have sold books that had work done, and not disclosed it.. well I for one would be kinda pissed at that.

And all the more reason for those sellers like yourself, that are clean to come forth and take a stand.

 

 

Ze-

[esquirecomics]

Well Mark.. I am not so polite.

Hence why I asked B.Bob if he had recently pressed books after he made his ironic OATH post earlier in this thread.

 

And of course he did not answer me,,and Red gave me a for asking such a thing.

 

Well I for one do not give a hoot about being polite, or putting people(sellers) on the spot

If CGC say's nothing is wrong with pressing a book. And it is NOT considered restoration by the majority of the collecting community , then what is the big deal?

Why do we still have to tip toe around the subject?

 

Because it might hurt a sellers reputation?.. or feelings?

Boo-- Hoo

 

Oh wait.. I remember.. because a seller does not want to ever admit he passed off books he willingly knew were pressed, let alone by himself on his own machine.

 

Sadly in this case.. instead of everyone being innocent until they are proven otherwise.. I fear it is the opposite.

 

I am assuming almost EVERY major dealer has , or is pressing books in some form or another.. it just appears to be that rampant, and too lucrative to NOT do it. And since nobody can detect the dang thing. It makes it all the more easy for a seller to press books to reach higher profits.

I am not saying EVERY seller does this.. but the more I hear, and read it sure seems like a large % has.. and IS. Even if they choose to not come forth and admit it.. declare it.. or disclose it.

I really have no idea of what % actually do it, nor will I ever.

 

Sorry to come accross as a rant... but this really chaps my backside.

 

Why on god's green earth should I give a crahp if I put a seller on the spot and ask him if he press's books.. or has bought a pressing machine recently?

He can say no..take a chance he might be found out.

Or admit he does in certain cases, see how the cookie crumbles.

But I for one am not afraid to ask, now .. or a year from now.

Nothing is THAT taboo. And nobody should be unaproachable if they really are in the business to serve the public.

 

Because even if there are just a few sellers, even a few among us who have sold books that had work done, and not disclosed it.. well I for one would be kinda pissed at that.

And all the more reason for those sellers like yourself, that are clean to come forth and take a stand.

 

 

Ze-

 

Ze-Man, more power to you! You go right ahead and directly ask any and every dealer to come clean. I agree with you 100%.

 

I just prefer to use my legal trial skills to get someone else to ask the questions I want asked.

[burntboy]

so mark - if you were buying a book that you had long sought from Center City Comics and agreed on a price of $5000, but were then told by their legendary owner that he had pressed some indentations and wrinkles out of the book himself, what would you do armed with that knowledge??

 

a. not buy the book because YOU consider it restored and aren't interested??.

 

b. buy the book anyway for $5000 and thank him for his disclosure and honesty??

 

c. negotiate a reduced price to reflect your perception of the reduced value due to pressing??

 

d. insert your own approach here.

 

i'm sure your response will lead to further discussion...............

[jimm94]

so mark - if you were buying a book that you had long sought from Center City Comics and agreed on a price of $5000, but were then told by their legendary owner that he had pressed some indentations and wrinkles out of the book himself, what would you do armed with that knowledge??

 

a. not buy the book because YOU consider it restored and aren't interested??.

 

b. buy the book anyway for $5000 and thank him for his disclosure and honesty??

 

c. negotiate a reduced price to reflect your perception of the reduced value due to pressing??

 

d. insert your own approach here.

 

i'm sure your response will lead to further discussion...............

 

Thanks for posting this, Harry. This is indeed the REAL issue at hand.

 

Good discussion, everyone!

[OldGuy]

I've been ignoring this thread, but I have to ask, has anything been said here that hasn't already been said in other threads?

[jbud73]

Actually its one of the better Pressing threads with what I would call more thought out opinions on the topic, I've quite enjoyed this one actually.

 

Maybe the level of discourse has remained high and the level of flame low because a lot of the Old Trolls haven't been posting on this thread It's been less of a rigid Us against them and a more of "So what can we understand from whats going on in our hobby" type attitude.

[esquirecomics]

so mark - if you were buying a book that you had long sought from Center City Comics and agreed on a price of $5000, but were then told by their legendary owner that he had pressed some indentations and wrinkles out of the book himself, what would you do armed with that knowledge??

 

a. not buy the book because YOU consider it restored and aren't interested??.

 

b. buy the book anyway for $5000 and thank him for his disclosure and honesty??

 

c. negotiate a reduced price to reflect your perception of the reduced value due to pressing??

 

d. insert your own approach here.

 

i'm sure your response will lead to further discussion...............

 

Good questions. Let me caveat my response to say that (1) this reflects my own personal viewpoint and is not necessarily intended nor meant to either reflect how anyone else may decide to deal with a similar situation or persuade them my thinking is correct, and (2) is reflective of my opinion only as I sit here at this moment and respond. It is completely subject to change depending upon how pressing becomes perceived by the community as time goes on, i.e., if pressing becomes clearly designated as restoration 2 years from now, my opinion could be vastly different.

 

Ok, for one thing, it is difficult to respond in a vacuum because my answer would be significantly impacted by what book is in question. Am I purchasing the book for resale or simply my own personal collection. As I've said before, at this stage of the debate I do not view it as unreasonable for people to disagree on whether pressing is a good thing or a bad thing just as they can do so with respect to how they feel about outright restoration. I would consider purchasing a book with slight professional restoration such as color touching but shun away from anything that had moderate or more restoration such as adding pieces (even if for my personal collection). Disclosure is the key so that a buyer can reach an informed decision.

 

For example, using your $5,000 figure, if it were an ASM #4 CGC 9.2 (which has sold at $5,400), I would likely outright decline to purchase it. There are more than 30 other copies within the 9.0 - 9.4 range (and no doubt many more that are simply ungraded) and I would prefer to obtain a copy that I know will not have any potential baggage in the future that could call its value into question. I would only be buying such a book for investment/resale. If I wanted to read it, I could buy a reprint copy.

 

Now, if the book were instead a Superman #3 in CGC 7.5 (Larson Pedigree) which previously sold for $4,600, I would certainly first seek to have the price reduced due to the pressing. The amount of reduction I would seek I am not sure offhand. But, again, if it is a one of a kind pedigree, this may be the only opportunity to purchase that book. Of course, a HG Superman #3 does not come around very often. There are only 4 copies higher in grade and I would not expect to find many ungraded copies lying around in the same way as ASM #3. If it is for my personal collection, I may be willing to overlook it. If it is for resale/investment, it all depends on the tone in the community as to where the majority stands on pressing. I certainly don't want to lose money on an investment.

 

Of course, no matter whether I chose (b), © or whatever (d) might later turn out to be, if I offered the book for sale I would disclose the fact that the book had been pressed. Then each of you can decide which course of action you would choose.

 

Finally, no matter which option I chose, I would absolutely compliment the dealer/seller on his/her integrity, honesty and professionalism. And if I did not purchase that particular book b/c of the pressing or price, I would most certainly return back to that dealer/seller for another book b/c of the honesty he/she showed.

 

Not sure if anything I said really is cause for further discussion except to the extent others wish to voice the choice they would make. As I said, the opinions that may be expressed by others who I respect may cause me to rethink aspects of my position, especially since at the time I am writing this I am juggling thoughts on comic books and how to respond to the Defense Department's opposition brief on why the Court should not sanction it for administering anthrax vaccine inoculations after we obtained an injunction forbidding it!

[OldGuy]

Actually its one of the better Pressing threads with what I would call more thought out opinions on the topic, I've quite enjoyed this one actually.

 

Maybe the level of discourse has remained high and the level of flame low because a lot of the Old Trolls haven't been posting on this thread It's been less of a rigid Us against them and a more of "So what can we understand from whats going on in our hobby" type attitude.

 

I'll give it a read.......

[jbud73]

You should I think It would be interesting to note the comments of forumites who have seen it all unravel with respect to the new opinions that have been brought forth in this contemporary thread.

[OldGuy]

Maybe the level of discourse has remained high and the level of flame low because a lot of the Old Trolls haven't been posting on this thread

 

Wow, that part must be in the second half of the thread. I only made it through the first half before it became overly repetitive. Looks like plenty of flame wars with some insightful gremlin posts mixed in with some really wordy posts repeating the same things over and over.

 

It's been less of a rigid Us against them and a more of "So what can we understand from whats going on in our hobby" type attitude.

 

It's funny how differently two people can interpret the same thing.

[OldGuy]

You should I think It would be interesting to note the comments of forumites who have seen it all unravel with respect to the new opinions that have been brought forth in this contemporary thread.

 

I did notice the two camps. I still only hear "I'm against it." and "I'm against it without disclosure." and "It's not restoration." Did I miss something?

[esquirecomics]

You should I think It would be interesting to note the comments of forumites who have seen it all unravel with respect to the new opinions that have been brought forth in this contemporary thread.

 

I did notice the two camps. I still only hear "I'm against it." and "I'm against it without disclosure." and "It's not restoration." Did I miss something?

 

The major difference in this thread versus others, I think, is the discussion surrounding how to deal with the issue directly rather than simply voicing personal opinions on which camp to be in.

 

FYI, everyone keep an eye on this thread b/c I expect to post an announcement hopefully within the next 48 hours regarding a respected figure in the community that will be of great interest. It will really distinguish this thread from others and serve as the catalyst for serious further debate.

[jbud73]

Maybe the level of discourse has remained high and the level of flame low because a lot of the Old Trolls haven't been posting on this thread

 

Wow, that part must be in the second half of the thread. I only made it through the first half before it became overly repetitive. Looks like plenty of flame wars with some insightful gremlin posts mixed in with some really wordy posts repeating the same things over and over.

 

It's been less of a rigid Us against them and a more of "So what can we understand from whats going on in our hobby" type attitude.

 

It's funny how differently two people can interpret the same thing.

 

Ok I re-browsed it. You can chuck the first 6 pages. Starting maybe with Pedigree's response to Metro (Vince in page 7, I guess depending on your view it starts to get better.) Chuck out the Destro vs. Pov post that come after that and then start at the next page. You can read or skip the 2 long winded posts by me (I actually put some thought into those puppies though) and then Mark from esquire and Z-man have a few interesting comments. As well there is discussion about what would you do if purchasing a CGC blue label that had disclosed NDP. That was an interesting tangent as well. Sorry Old Guy the latter half is definitely better. Especially the recalling by me supported by Pedigree that Metro and others were buying Dry Mounts last year, actually the number of accounts with comic refernces that have either bid, or won dry mount presses on EBAY is frighteningly interesting. The link to Scott's post of Marin's article on pressign was a nice refresher as well.

[OldGuy]

Maybe the level of discourse has remained high and the level of flame low because a lot of the Old Trolls haven't been posting on this thread

 

Wow, that part must be in the second half of the thread. I only made it through the first half before it became overly repetitive. Looks like plenty of flame wars with some insightful gremlin posts mixed in with some really wordy posts repeating the same things over and over.

 

It's been less of a rigid Us against them and a more of "So what can we understand from whats going on in our hobby" type attitude.

 

It's funny how differently two people can interpret the same thing.

 

Ok I re-browsed it. You can chuck the first 6 pages. Starting maybe with Pedigree's response to Metro (Vince in page 7, I guess depending on your view it starts to get better.) Chuck out the Destro vs. Pov post that come after that and then start at the next page. You can read or skip the 2 long winded posts by me (I actually put some thought into those puppies though) and then Mark from esquire and Z-man have a few interesting comments. As well there is discussion about what would you do if purchasing a CGC blue label that had disclosed NDP. That was an interesting tangent as well. Sorry Old Guy the latter half is definitely better. Especially the recalling by me supported by Pedigree that Metro and others were buying Dry Mounts last year, actually the number of accounts with comic refernces that have either bid, or won dry mount presses on EBAY is frighteningly interesting. The link to Scott's post of Marin's article on pressign was a nice refresher as well.

 

Ok, I'm off to read the second half......

[goldust40]

You should I think It would be interesting to note the comments of forumites who have seen it all unravel with respect to the new opinions that have been brought forth in this contemporary thread.

 

I did notice the two camps. I still only hear "I'm against it." and "I'm against it without disclosure." and "It's not restoration." Did I miss something?

 

The major difference in this thread versus others, I think, is the discussion surrounding how to deal with the issue directly rather than simply voicing personal opinions on which camp to be in.

 

FYI, everyone keep an eye on this thread b/c I expect to post an announcement hopefully within the next 48 hours regarding a respected figure in the community that will be of great interest. It will really distinguish this thread from others and serve as the catalyst for serious further debate.

 

48 hours? You can't seriously keep us in suspense for that long. Ah well, I've read this far (well most of it, anyway). Hope your announcement doesn't get lost in the shuffle.

[drbanner]

You should I think It would be interesting to note the comments of forumites who have seen it all unravel with respect to the new opinions that have been brought forth in this contemporary thread.

 

I did notice the two camps. I still only hear "I'm against it." and "I'm against it without disclosure." and "It's not restoration." Did I miss something?

 

The major difference in this thread versus others, I think, is the discussion surrounding how to deal with the issue directly rather than simply voicing personal opinions on which camp to be in.

 

FYI, everyone keep an eye on this thread b/c I expect to post an announcement hopefully within the next 48 hours regarding a respected figure in the community that will be of great interest. It will really distinguish this thread from others and serve as the catalyst for serious further debate.

 

What's Marnin gonna say this time?

 

JK...

[DiceX]

You should I think It would be interesting to note the comments of forumites who have seen it all unravel with respect to the new opinions that have been brought forth in this contemporary thread.

 

I did notice the two camps. I still only hear "I'm against it." and "I'm against it without disclosure." and "It's not restoration." Did I miss something?

 

The major difference in this thread versus others, I think, is the discussion surrounding how to deal with the issue directly rather than simply voicing personal opinions on which camp to be in.

 

FYI, everyone keep an eye on this thread b/c I expect to post an announcement hopefully within the next 48 hours regarding a respected figure in the community that will be of great interest. It will really distinguish this thread from others and serve as the catalyst for serious further debate.

 

What's Marnin gonna say this time?

 

JK...

 

I was thinking it. But I didn't say it.

I got scolded last time I said anything in this thread.