Pressing

[esquirecomics]

No, no, it doesn't have anything to do with Marnin.

 

Don't confuse the existence of a business relationship as equatable with shared personal or professional views. Marnin and I disagree on many things, including on matters related to pressing, CGC, Heritage, etc. I speak my own views. Shame, shame on you guys.

 

Now if Marnin wants to hire me as his legal counsel - and I often handle media affairs - I am available to him and anyone else at my usual hourly rate!

[skybolt]

so mark - if you were buying a book that you had long sought from Center City Comics and agreed on a price of $5000, but were then told by their legendary owner that he had pressed some indentations and wrinkles out of the book himself, what would you do armed with that knowledge??

 

a. not buy the book because YOU consider it restored and aren't interested??.

 

b. buy the book anyway for $5000 and thank him for his disclosure and honesty??

 

c. negotiate a reduced price to reflect your perception of the reduced value due to pressing??

 

d. insert your own approach here.

 

i'm sure your response will lead to further discussion...............

 

Good questions. Let me caveat my response to say that (1) this reflects my own personal viewpoint and is not necessarily intended nor meant to either reflect how anyone else may decide to deal with a similar situation or persuade them my thinking is correct, and (2) is reflective of my opinion only as I sit here at this moment and respond. It is completely subject to change depending upon how pressing becomes perceived by the community as time goes on, i.e., if pressing becomes clearly designated as restoration 2 years from now, my opinion could be vastly different.

 

Ok, for one thing, it is difficult to respond in a vacuum because my answer would be significantly impacted by what book is in question. Am I purchasing the book for resale or simply my own personal collection. As I've said before, at this stage of the debate I do not view it as unreasonable for people to disagree on whether pressing is a good thing or a bad thing just as they can do so with respect to how they feel about outright restoration. I would consider purchasing a book with slight professional restoration such as color touching but shun away from anything that had moderate or more restoration such as adding pieces (even if for my personal collection). Disclosure is the key so that a buyer can reach an informed decision.

 

For example, using your $5,000 figure, if it were an ASM #4 CGC 9.2 (which has sold at $5,400), I would likely outright decline to purchase it. There are more than 30 other copies within the 9.0 - 9.4 range (and no doubt many more that are simply ungraded) and I would prefer to obtain a copy that I know will not have any potential baggage in the future that could call its value into question. I would only be buying such a book for investment/resale. If I wanted to read it, I could buy a reprint copy.

 

Now, if the book were instead a Superman #3 in CGC 7.5 (Larson Pedigree) which previously sold for $4,600, I would certainly first seek to have the price reduced due to the pressing. The amount of reduction I would seek I am not sure offhand. But, again, if it is a one of a kind pedigree, this may be the only opportunity to purchase that book. Of course, a HG Superman #3 does not come around very often. There are only 4 copies higher in grade and I would not expect to find many ungraded copies lying around in the same way as ASM #3. If it is for my personal collection, I may be willing to overlook it. If it is for resale/investment, it all depends on the tone in the community as to where the majority stands on pressing. I certainly don't want to lose money on an investment.

 

Of course, no matter whether I chose (b), © or whatever (d) might later turn out to be, if I offered the book for sale I would disclose the fact that the book had been pressed. Then each of you can decide which course of action you would choose.

 

Finally, no matter which option I chose, I would absolutely compliment the dealer/seller on his/her integrity, honesty and professionalism. And if I did not purchase that particular book b/c of the pressing or price, I would most certainly return back to that dealer/seller for another book b/c of the honesty he/she showed.

 

Not sure if anything I said really is cause for further discussion except to the extent others wish to voice the choice they would make. As I said, the opinions that may be expressed by others who I respect may cause me to rethink aspects of my position, especially since at the time I am writing this I am juggling thoughts on comic books and how to respond to the Defense Department's opposition brief on why the Court should not sanction it for administering anthrax vaccine inoculations after we obtained an injunction forbidding it!

 

Sorry Mark, but your post assumes that the other 30 HG copies of ASM #3 and #4 have never been pressed. Since pressing still isn't detectable, you may be passing on a $5,000 disclosed pressed book vs. paying $6,000 for another copy that might have been pressed back in the late 80's. Plus, you still haven't answered my question about your HG DC collection. If a pressing detection machine was developed in the near future would you subject all those great books to the ultimate test?

 

My opinion has always been that comics should maintain their original condition and not be pressed. However, since the likelyhood exists that a lot of the milehigh collection has already been pressed at one time or another, even if a detection device was discovered, those books would still get the blue lable (a la minor color touch). I don't think this hobby can stand having the best books out there losing their grail status.

 

I don't have a problem with disclosing pressing, I just hate the idea of only certain Pedigree books being placed under the microscope, while others get the benefit of the doubt since their history is unknown.

[esquirecomics]

Sorry Mark, but your post assumes that the other 30 HG copies of ASM #3 and #4 have never been pressed. Since pressing still isn't detectable, you may be passing on a $5,000 disclosed pressed book vs. paying $6,000 for another copy that might have been pressed back in the late 80's. Plus, you still haven't answered my question about your HG DC collection. If a pressing detection machine was developed in the near future would you subject all those great books to the ultimate test?

 

My opinion has always been that comics should maintain their original condition and not be pressed. However, since the likelyhood exists that a lot of the milehigh collection has already been pressed at one time or another, even if a detection device was discovered, those books would still get the blue lable (a la minor color touch). I don't think this hobby can stand having the best books out there losing their grail status.

 

I don't have a problem with disclosing pressing, I just hate the idea of only certain Pedigree books being placed under the microscope, while others get the benefit of the doubt since their history is unknown.

 

With all due respect, I'm not assuming anything. It would seem you're assuming my comment meant I was relying on the census as my field of availability, that I would only seek to purchase an alternative book that was graded, or that insufficient evidence would exist to indicate that either a graded or ungraded book had never been pressed. I was asked what I would do in a specific scenario and I responded based on those given facts. The premise of my comment was to identify a distinction that would affect my purchasing decision when spending $5k on a book from the SA that is more common and one from the GA that is less likely to be found if I knew the books had been pressed.

 

As far as the question about subjecting my HG books to a future pressing detector, I am not sure how to answer that or the reason why I should speculate on whether I would or would not. Is this detector 100% accurate? Who is running the test? Has the collecting community rejected pressing in your scenario? Does it have the stigma of restoration? Or does the existence of pressing simply diminish the value of a book by set factor? Would you be willing to subject your collection to such a test? How about if you subject yours, I'll be willing to subject mine. I am not trying to be flip, but I simply don't understand the relevance of the question to the debate at hand. I'm not sure why certain posts at times seem to be directed at me personally based on my simplying suggesting ways in which to counter what a growing number in this community - including yourself it would seem - considers to be wrong. I'm sorry if you think the statements I have made threaten the value of your collection, which seems to be insinuated in this and prior posts, but I have continually stood fast and firm on what my disclosure policies and personal beliefs are. You are certainly, as is everyone, free to agree or disagree, in whole or in part.

 

I've made my comments and suggestions on how to deal with the pressing situation based on evidence we can currently obtain, not that we might speculate about in the future. If a reliable pressing detector is ever invented, then that would seeminly end much of the debate that now exists and pressing would likely stop unless the community has accepted it. Would the community then require that prior to all sales a slabbed book must be taken out of its CGC holder to determine if it had been previously pressed? Perhaps. Perhaps not. No doubt if the marketplace determines that it shall be done, then I and every other dealer/seller will need to do so in order to maintain their commercial viability.

 

There is no easy solution or quick fix to this debate. What has been done in the past is done. I say again, we need to address what is occurring in the present and prevent what might occur in the future. Tracking pedigree grades is the one area where we can NOW dissuade future pressing because we will know something has changed artificially. If a Mile High book that now exists in 8.5 is suddenly a 9.4 two years from now, any fall from grace that may be suffered should be laid on the doorstep of the person who pressed it, not on the people who are trying to prevent it from ever happening.

 

This post is not intended to be a personal attack on you Skybolt, nor reflective of the obvious frustration I am feeling in having to seemingly defend the consequences of a practice that is neither my creation or doing, but I prefer to address this PROBLEM head on and not bury my head in the sand simply because I may not like the end results.

[PedigreeMan]

For general discussion:

 

Never underestimate the power of groups, even relatively small ones. Anyone ever read Malcolm Gladwell's The Tipping Point? Even small groups can have a profound effect on the world and events around them. It's really all a matter of getting everyone roughly on the same page. And if the size of the group can get close to the magic number of 150, even greater things tend to occur.

 

In other words, I see enough people here to make a real difference in this hobby. It can start with pressing, but then I can see it moving all the way to a general acceptance of most cases of restoration. We have the power to first get full disclosure on the table, but then the ultimate goal would be something akin to what Matt Nelson wrote about in his article for the Overstreet Grading Guide and what guys like Povertyrow and Lou_fine here have been calling for repeatedly. Namely, no more purple labels and a much finer grained standard for levels of restoration (a 1-10 scale, perhaps?). Such a system would more than likely eliminate much of the stigma around a drop of color touch and the like, and actually end up being a positive for this hobby.

 

If Mark wants to lead the charge in this endeavor, I applaud him for it.

 

Alan

[burntboy]

so mark - if you were buying a book that you had long sought from Center City Comics and agreed on a price of $5000, but were then told by their legendary owner that he had pressed some indentations and wrinkles out of the book himself, what would you do armed with that knowledge??

 

a. not buy the book because YOU consider it restored and aren't interested??.

 

b. buy the book anyway for $5000 and thank him for his disclosure and honesty??

 

c. negotiate a reduced price to reflect your perception of the reduced value due to pressing??

 

d. insert your own approach here.

 

i'm sure your response will lead to further discussion...............

 

Good questions. Let me caveat my response to say that (1) this reflects my own personal viewpoint and is not necessarily intended nor meant to either reflect how anyone else may decide to deal with a similar situation or persuade them my thinking is correct, and (2) is reflective of my opinion only as I sit here at this moment and respond. It is completely subject to change depending upon how pressing becomes perceived by the community as time goes on, i.e., if pressing becomes clearly designated as restoration 2 years from now, my opinion could be vastly different.

 

Ok, for one thing, it is difficult to respond in a vacuum because my answer would be significantly impacted by what book is in question. Am I purchasing the book for resale or simply my own personal collection. As I've said before, at this stage of the debate I do not view it as unreasonable for people to disagree on whether pressing is a good thing or a bad thing just as they can do so with respect to how they feel about outright restoration. I would consider purchasing a book with slight professional restoration such as color touching but shun away from anything that had moderate or more restoration such as adding pieces (even if for my personal collection). Disclosure is the key so that a buyer can reach an informed decision.

 

For example, using your $5,000 figure, if it were an ASM #4 CGC 9.2 (which has sold at $5,400), I would likely outright decline to purchase it. There are more than 30 other copies within the 9.0 - 9.4 range (and no doubt many more that are simply ungraded) and I would prefer to obtain a copy that I know will not have any potential baggage in the future that could call its value into question. I would only be buying such a book for investment/resale. If I wanted to read it, I could buy a reprint copy.

 

Now, if the book were instead a Superman #3 in CGC 7.5 (Larson Pedigree) which previously sold for $4,600, I would certainly first seek to have the price reduced due to the pressing. The amount of reduction I would seek I am not sure offhand. But, again, if it is a one of a kind pedigree, this may be the only opportunity to purchase that book. Of course, a HG Superman #3 does not come around very often. There are only 4 copies higher in grade and I would not expect to find many ungraded copies lying around in the same way as ASM #3. If it is for my personal collection, I may be willing to overlook it. If it is for resale/investment, it all depends on the tone in the community as to where the majority stands on pressing. I certainly don't want to lose money on an investment.

 

Of course, no matter whether I chose (b), © or whatever (d) might later turn out to be, if I offered the book for sale I would disclose the fact that the book had been pressed. Then each of you can decide which course of action you would choose.

 

Finally, no matter which option I chose, I would absolutely compliment the dealer/seller on his/her integrity, honesty and professionalism. And if I did not purchase that particular book b/c of the pressing or price, I would most certainly return back to that dealer/seller for another book b/c of the honesty he/she showed.

 

Not sure if anything I said really is cause for further discussion except to the extent others wish to voice the choice they would make. As I said, the opinions that may be expressed by others who I respect may cause me to rethink aspects of my position, especially since at the time I am writing this I am juggling thoughts on comic books and how to respond to the Defense Department's opposition brief on why the Court should not sanction it for administering anthrax vaccine inoculations after we obtained an injunction forbidding it!

 

thanks for taking the time to answer my question in detail.....(thumbs up

 

this is an intriguing dilemma. while i understand the desire by so many for full disclosure, i'm also certainly aware of the potential financial impact that could be brought to bear on so many (your decision to NOT purchase the Spidey #4 is a PERFECT example).

 

how many dealers/sellers are going to come clean about an undetectable form of alteration when it could well mean the loss of a big sale?? how many would disclose the pressing if in the Supes #3 scenario, the buyer still wants the rare book, but for LESS money??

 

and as Dice has mentioned already, the truly honest and upright dealer/seller could ultimately get the shaft as the buyer takes said book and turns around and flips it without the disclosure for far more money.

 

to restate - this is an intriguing dilemma!!!! i'm not sure where this all leads, but will continue to follow this and associated threads with much interest................

 

and, of course, am VERY interested in your "announcement" from a well-respected member of the hobby within the next day or so. when i saw someone mention Marnin's name, i cringed at first, because his stance on this and other topics are not news, but then i thought perhaps he has some new factual info that could prove very interesting............ well, whoever it is - bring it on!!!!!!!!

[Red Hook]

No, no, it doesn't have anything to do with Marnin.

 

 

It's gonna' be interesing.

 

[skybolt]

Sorry Mark, but your post assumes that the other 30 HG copies of ASM #3 and #4 have never been pressed. Since pressing still isn't detectable, you may be passing on a $5,000 disclosed pressed book vs. paying $6,000 for another copy that might have been pressed back in the late 80's. Plus, you still haven't answered my question about your HG DC collection. If a pressing detection machine was developed in the near future would you subject all those great books to the ultimate test?

 

My opinion has always been that comics should maintain their original condition and not be pressed. However, since the likelyhood exists that a lot of the milehigh collection has already been pressed at one time or another, even if a detection device was discovered, those books would still get the blue lable (a la minor color touch). I don't think this hobby can stand having the best books out there losing their grail status.

 

I don't have a problem with disclosing pressing, I just hate the idea of only certain Pedigree books being placed under the microscope, while others get the benefit of the doubt since their history is unknown.

 

With all due respect, I'm not assuming anything. It would seem you're assuming my comment meant I was relying on the census as my field of availability, that I would only seek to purchase an alternative book that was graded, or that insufficient evidence would exist to indicate that either a graded or ungraded book had never been pressed. I was asked what I would do in a specific scenario and I responded based on those given facts. The premise of my comment was to identify a distinction that would affect my purchasing decision when spending $5k on a book from the SA that is more common and one from the GA that is less likely to be found if I knew the books had been pressed.

 

As far as the question about subjecting my HG books to a future pressing detector, I am not sure how to answer that or the reason why I should speculate on whether I would or would not. Is this detector 100% accurate? Who is running the test? Has the collecting community rejected pressing in your scenario? Does it have the stigma of restoration? Or does the existence of pressing simply diminish the value of a book by set factor? Would you be willing to subject your collection to such a test? How about if you subject yours, I'll be willing to subject mine. I am not trying to be flip, but I simply don't understand the relevance of the question to the debate at hand. I'm not sure why certain posts at times seem to be directed at me personally based on my simplying suggesting ways in which to counter what a growing number in this community - including yourself it would seem - considers to be wrong. I'm sorry if you think the statements I have made threaten the value of your collection, which seems to be insinuated in this and prior posts, but I have continually stood fast and firm on what my disclosure policies and personal beliefs are. You are certainly, as is everyone, free to agree or disagree, in whole or in part.

 

I've made my comments and suggestions on how to deal with the pressing situation based on evidence we can currently obtain, not that we might speculate about in the future. If a reliable pressing detector is ever invented, then that would seeminly end much of the debate that now exists and pressing would likely stop unless the community has accepted it. Would the community then require that prior to all sales a slabbed book must be taken out of its CGC holder to determine if it had been previously pressed? Perhaps. Perhaps not. No doubt if the marketplace determines that it shall be done, then I and every other dealer/seller will need to do so in order to maintain their commercial viability.

 

There is no easy solution or quick fix to this debate. What has been done in the past is done. I say again, we need to address what is occurring in the present and prevent what might occur in the future. Tracking pedigree grades is the one area where we can NOW dissuade future pressing because we will know something has changed artificially. If a Mile High book that now exists in 8.5 is suddenly a 9.4 two years from now, any fall from grace that may be suffered should be laid on the doorstep of the person who pressed it, not on the people who are trying to prevent it from ever happening.

 

This post is not intended to be a personal attack on you Skybolt, nor reflective of the obvious frustration I am feeling in having to seemingly defend the consequences of a practice that is neither my creation or doing, but I prefer to address this PROBLEM head on and not bury my head in the sand simply because I may not like the end results.

 

Mark, first of all I'd like to start off my post by apologizing to you if my e-mail sounded a little harsh... that certainly wasn't my intent. Like yourself, I want to elevate this conversation about pressing from whether it's good or bad, to how it's going to effect our hobby in the near or distant future.

 

Secondly, it's really not fair to you to compare our two collections. Your one or two top books are probably worth more than my entire collection. That being said, if a pressing detection machine was invented and pressing was now considered restoration, I along with most others would either submit my books for a pressing check, or state clearly in my selling description that the book wasn't checked for pressing (otherwise, I'm committing fraud).

 

Up until a few years ago, I was merely a small time player who only collected moderns for my reading pleasure. Somewhere along those lines I made the decision to switch to semi-HG SA and GA books. I rationalized inside my head that I'd much rather spend a lot of money on key vintage books that I always wanted vs. throwing hundreds of dollars on modern books. For example, I feel that if I lose $10K on my vintage collection if I decide to sell 10-years from now, that's still worth more to me than losing $5K on modern books that I really don't enjoy reading anymore. Plus, I've certainly overpaid way too many times on certain overgraded books to even think about recouping my money in the forseable future. I've always believed that honesty is the best policy, and if someone sold me an overgraded book as a FN/VF, then when I sell it, I'll list the book as a VG/FN or whatever the true grade may be. At least at the end of day, I'll feel good about myself.

 

Now, back to the pressing issue. Do I agree that pressing is a form of restoration, yes I do. Do I agree that a buyer should ask a dealer whether the book has been pressed to the best of their knowledge, of course. Do I agree that all dealers should stop pressing their books, or disclose that information, definitely. My main concern is the aftermath of such revelations.

 

1.) If only Pedigree books are initially put under the microscope, then there's a good possibility for them to either be shunned upon or lose their pedigree status to hide the fact that they've been pressed. Again, I'm speaking from a comic book collector's standpoint since I only own a few semi-HG pedigrees that don't include any milehighs.

 

2.) It's really unrealistic to have a major dealer come on these boards and disclose that they've been pressing books for the past 5 years, and face the eventual backlash. For instance, let's say that you, I or any other collector asks a major dealer if they press books. What if the dealers resonse is that they did for the past 3 years, but have recently stopped since it's having a negative impact on the hobby. Would we just pat them on the back and say you did the right thing and let bygones be bygones, or would we drag them through the mud and make an example out of them. How many collectors would cry foul and demand that every single pressing case be disclosed for the past 3-years. Other less reputable dealers would see this backlash and never ever disclose that they've been pressing books until a detection machine is invented. Mark, since you and I don't have our books pressed, it's easy for us to come clean, for others it could mean their entire business practice. I surely hope that there is a big enough outcry for dealers to slowly fade into not pressing their books and let bygones be bygones.

 

3.) Even though I do have my complaints about CGC every now and then, I still like the fact they exist to keep sellers honest. Even if a dot of color touch is added, CGC would detect it. My main concern is with PLOD designations and how it's perceived by the general public. Do I as a collector really think that a GA book with two dots of color touch is worth 1/10 of the same unrestored book, of course not. However, I'm still hesitant in purchasing a PLOD due to how it's perceived by the general public. That's what scares me about pressing being considered as resto and a purple label given. The problem isn't that some pressed books lose a little bit of their value, the problem is that not all the pressed books would be put under the same microscope, and I don't think that's fair.

 

Again Mark, I'm sorry for my previous post, and I hope we can continue these educating conversations in the future.

[Aman619]

Seems to me that after this latest go round of debate and discussion that the single largest roadblock remains the UNDETECTABILITY of non-disassembly pressing. So it follows that the surest route to solving this dilemma will be to learn to detect it. Why dont we work in that direction. Perhaps pool some cash and hire a restorer to conduct tests for us, and examine the results from a controlled sample. Perhaps a top restorer who is currently NOT making a living by pressing. (Susan?) With their trained eye, I am sure we will detect a few clues for CGC to then look for when examining future books. After that, let the past sort itself out....there will be winners and losers. So be it.

 

If we really want to get past this stalemate, we must take steps that get to the root of the problem. Confessions and promises and guarantees wont get us there. Too much money at stake. By and large we have adapted to live by CGCs grades and resto determinations, so lets invest in getting them the tools to do the REST of their job.

 

Of course CGC should be doing the experiments. But, maybe its up to US to get the ball rolling, and if we do, and show some initial results, I am sure CGC will join us as we get going. To do otherwise would be, well, kinda hard for them to explain, wouldnt it?

[shrunkenhead]

We keep coming back to the alleged undetectability of pressing. I'll confess that I am not a resto expert, so I will just go ahead and ask: Is pressing really that hard to spot? I suppose a real pro knows how to do it just right, but when I've heard dealers pejoratively call these books "pancakes," I assumed that this was not just metaphorical. Isn't a pressed book often flattened considerably, to the point where one would probably notice it? Doesn't the book sometimes appear just a little bit "bigger" than it did when it was unpressed?

 

My understanding is that pressing is near impossible to detect on a book that's IN THE SLAB, but maybe not quite so tough for a raw book. Am I wrong about this?

[Aman619]

the BAD press jobs are pancakes. And its a cool way to dis pressed books. I dont think CGC sees a pancaked book and let sit go.... but maybe they do. Also, if we can study the effects of pressing, perhaps these OVER-pressed pancakes will be the easiest to learn to detect 100% of the time.

[burntboy]

We keep coming back to the alleged undetectability of pressing. I'll confess that I am not a resto expert, so I will just go ahead and ask: Is pressing really that hard to spot? I suppose a real pro knows how to do it just right, but when I've heard dealers pejoratively call these books "pancakes," I assumed that this was not just metaphorical. Isn't a pressed book often flattened considerably, to the point where one would probably notice it? Doesn't the book sometimes appear just a little bit "bigger" than it did when it was unpressed?

 

My understanding is that pressing is near impossible to detect on a book that's IN THE SLAB, but maybe not quite so tough for a raw book. Am I wrong about this?

 

initially, i thought the same things about pressing.

 

but, thanks to posts by Pov and Zeman, have learned that the pressing is often very localized and applied with minimal pressure. therefore the "bug-eyed" nature of the characters on a pressed book apparently need not materialize. and then perhaps just the cover gets pressed and not the entire book.

 

so the "pancakes" that have been so thoroughly referenced, aren't always the outcome...............

[Aman619]

yeah. that was a turning point for me too inunderstanding pressing Burnt. Most of it is localized to "iron-out' wrinkles and folds, not to flatten a book as if it were under a huge pile of weights.

[skybolt]

yeah. that was a turning point for me too inunderstanding pressing Burnt. Most of it is localized to "iron-out' wrinkles and folds, not to flatten a book as if it were under a huge pile of weights.

 

Plus CGC has stated that if a book is unprofessionally pressed, it may result in a lesser grade (even if pressing isn't indicated on the label).

[jbud73]

For general discussion:

 

Never underestimate the power of groups, even relatively small ones. Anyone ever read Malcolm Gladwell's The Tipping Point? Even small groups can have a profound effect on the world and events around them. It's really all a matter of getting everyone roughly on the same page. And if the size of the group can get close to the magic number of 150, even greater things tend to occur.

 

In other words, I see enough people here to make a real difference in this hobby. It can start with pressing, but then I can see it moving all the way to a general acceptance of most cases of restoration. We have the power to first get full disclosure on the table, but then the ultimate goal would be something akin to what Matt Nelson wrote about in his article for the Overstreet Grading Guide and what guys like Povertyrow and Lou_fine here have been calling for repeatedly. Namely, no more purple labels and a much finer grained standard for levels of restoration (a 1-10 scale, perhaps?). Such a system would more than likely eliminate much of the stigma around a drop of color touch and the like, and actually end up being a positive for this hobby.

 

If Mark wants to lead the charge in this endeavor, I applaud him for it.

 

Alan

 

I have to say that I really enjoyed Matt Nelson's article on trying to assign a more scientific scale and score to restoration. After reading it I was thinking "Wow that makes a lot of sense and really has an aura of professionalism and concrete analysis behind it." No wonder its NOT being adopted or discussed in the hobby, it just makes too much sense.

[esquirecomics]

Skybolt, I appreciate your reply. No problem on my end.

 

Let me respond to some points in the last several posts. I agree that if we continue this discussion, particularly at the intellectual level that it has been, we can really move this debate forward. And, very true, it doesn't necessarily mean we have to attract hundreds or thousands of people to our position. So where do we go from here?

 

(1) The discussion needs to be taken to the "people". One thought is to have panel or roundtable discussions at some of the larger national comic shows about the topics of pressing and restoration. I've already started suggesting it to some show organizers. The intent would not be to have one-sided discussions but to ensure a reflection of the differing viewpoints. I would encourage those of you who know organizers of the major Cons to suggest this. I, for one, would be more than willing to participate. I don't see why during a 2-3 day convention there could not be time set aside for a 2-3 hour panel discussion.

 

(2) The suggestion about retaining an expert to explore ways to detect pressing is an interesting one and merits further review. If anyone would be willing to contribute to hiring someone, if it is even realistic at this time, please PM or e-mail me. Frankly, one would think CGC would be interested in doing this as it could be an offered service for an additional source of revenue. If such a detection service were actually feasible, I would definitely explore creating a new company to offer the service. If that interests you, let me know.

 

(3) Sadly, I do not expect the majority, or even minority, of dealers to come clean and admit that they were pressing books during the 1980s-2005. The fact of the matter is that I would be more than happy with just a simple pledge from dealers that they will no longer press (with no comment or admission about the past) and/or would disclose the existence of pressing.

 

There are many dealers, both small and large, who read these posts and participate on the boards. They know it, we know it. And I have little or frankly no doubt that they are reading these posts on pressing with trepidation on many different levels. At various points in time, on this thread and prior pressing threads, there have been calls upon these dealers - sometimes generically, sometimes with a specific dealer in mind - to respond to what we have been writing and questioning.

 

I no longer believe there is a need to directly ask a specific dealer to respond on the boards to the questions of "have you pressed", "will you continue to press", or "will you disclose pressing if asked". There have been more than enough opportunities for them to respond. Their silence is their answer, and we can certainly and reasonably infer what the answers are to each of the questions.

 

(4) The forthcoming announcement I mentioned earlier is still forthcoming. I am playing phone tag with the individual. Keep your eyes peeled.

 

(5) On a side note, this thread has been one of the more active for a long time. It has an enormous number of views and posts. How does a thread become a "Sticky Topic"? I have PM'd each of the moderators either asking for this thread to be designated as such or at least to understand how the decision is made. None have responded. I have no idea who these people are, except that I presume they work for CGC in some capacity. I would hope that CGC would have the professionalism to nevertheless recognize an important topic even if it does not agree with the sentiments. I encourage everyone to PM CGC and the moderators asking that this thread be made a "Sticky Topic".

[Aman619]

being thta this is the umpteenth thread on the subject, Im not thinking this will be considered any more sticky than the other ones.... but the subjetc refuses to die, and with yout announcement and surprise guest coming up, thisone will be around a bit longer.

[esquirecomics]

If everyone starts PM'ing the moderators or whomever makes the decision to convert this thread to a Sticky Topic, one would think it should be done.

 

I've e-mailed the big red cheese, Steve B., himself about this.

[jbud73]

Mark you have to realize how touchy a subject this is with the dealers / sellers. I mean I have zero sympathy, but besides Bob Storms few others have even dared wade into the discussion. Its like the Scarlett letter to them, I'm sure many want it to go away. Asking you typical dealer if the books been pressed is akin to slapping them in the face. I'm not saying CGC wants to sweep it under the rug, Steve has been on here to discuss the merits of NDP, or the reason why CGC does not consider it resto.

 

Still I feel that we have come a long way, from the initial postings where a lot of Board members cried conpiracy theory. Its not a conspiracy, but it is happening. Keep posting and bumping the thread, it definitely is one of the most important issues in the hobby today, the more people that are aware of it the better. Still I stand behind my earlier comments that NDP is the new Slight Color Touch and there are people who will fight with every fibre of their being to ensure that disclosure is not forthcoming. I mean WHY DID CGC TAKE CERTAIN COMMENTS OFF THE LABEL - The dealers complained about the prices fetched and the comments came off....

[Aman619]

I thought the issue about comments on the label wasnt so much what was said, but that only some books got comments. And since all label comments were BAD, it "unfairly" stigmatized those books that had them. If most books had NO comment, then it stood to reason that the flaws mentioned must have been SO SEVERE that a comment was NECESSARY. So who would want one of these tainted books?

[garthgantu]

[

You can read or skip the 2 long winded posts by me (I actually put some thought into those puppies though)

 

Yeah, right! I dictated those two diatribes to you over the phone after you called whining about "writer's block" ! Sheesh, talk about rewriting history!