Pressing

Ze-man · March 13, 2005

I do agree, Steve may not always give the reply, or answer that people are looking for. He might even appear flippant to some , in the way he goes about making his remarks. But I imagine as you said BassG.. What do people expect him to say?... "Yup our slabs are damaging comcs, sure are.. oh well suxs to be you", " Yup..pressing is bad.. and we cannot detect it, but we stand to make alot of money so why fight it"

The fact that he even commented on those topics was more then I expected.

Sure it did bother me to hear him say.. "who cares" regarding the pressing issue. He has indeed said that all along , so Tom M. you are right there. It was nothing new outa his mouth.

But when you said Steve/CGC does not care about the boards was just idiotic to me..IMHO

To say he, nor CGC does not care about anybody, or their opinions on this board is just wrong. They do read the boards, see what we are talking about, they know MANY of us personally, heck.. they even call some of us friends.

This forum is a unique situation to be sure. To think what we say affects their bottom line is being generous at best... but to say we can at least make our voices heard is a reality.

Example...

While I do not think for 1 second I am solely responsible for why CGC decided to start seam welding the label into the innerwell.. I would like to think my phone calls to Steve stating my case about why the old system was a bad one.(i.e... person_without_enough_empathying at him) My threads showing how easy it was to remove, and replace the label in old CGC slabs , did in some small way lead to the current seam welded tamper resistant label system we now see.

Would they have made this change without the forumites chiming in on what they liked, disliked about their product?

Perhaps.. perhaps not.. all I know is, it DID change.

The end result was what I was after..a tamper resistant innerwell.label.

To say CGC does NOT care about slab damage is misleading..If I could design a better Slab design and sell it to CGC I would.. As would the people who designed the slab system CGC uses now.

I would love for CGC to spend endless dollars and time in R&D designing a perfect slab design..but the people who design stuff like this for a living said this was the best they could come up with. Hence why Steve has always said.. "show us a better way... please."

I wish I COULD figure out a better way.. but when you take into account all the pros, cons of every type of a comic sealing system. There is no 1 clear cut best way to address all the problems that arise when trying to seal a fragile comic book, that comes in a myriad of thickness's, and sizes. Comics just do not lend themselves to being slabbed safely 100%, without ever recieving further damage.

Refusing to slab severe overhang books, or chipping..etc.. seems to be the most aggressive attempt by CGC to control SCS I have seen. Also creating a larger variety of inner well sizes to best fit the comic in hand to be slabbed.. so it will not move around as much inside the well is also a welcome improvement.

Sadly..as the years go by, slabs are sold, bought , and resold..and shipped again and again. I imagine we will only see more cases of SCS.

So in the end..as we all know.. it is up to us to decide if we wanna spend our money on comics sealed inside a plastic tub.

And keep hoping to see new improvements to the current slabbing system as time goes by.

While we can debate the why/how the removal of information on the label came to take place is for another thread I guess. I would only be guessing at how that nasty can of worms unfolded.

Ooops.. this post turned into a book.

Sorry..

Ze-

nearmint · March 13, 2005

Stuart, we went for ribs the other night, and I got some barbecue sauce on my collar. Can you help me out?

I guess it'd need to be cleaned and pressed?

burntboy · March 13, 2005

Barbecue sauce on your collar?!?!?

didn't Connie Francis sing that???

is that what you told the missus???

jbud73 · March 13, 2005

Absolutely Ze. I too applaud them for sealing the label in the Inner Well and for not slabbing books with overhang. While the latter is a temporary solution, it at leaves serves notice that they are indeed trying to improve their product and realize the shortcomings with the design of the holder.

burntboy · March 14, 2005

i guess it's fair to say (based on the complete lack of further discourse over the past 18 hours) that this particular discussion has run it's course UNTIL Mark produces the BIG ANNOUNCEMENT.

for those "numbers guys" out there we are at 110 hours and counting. (a lesson for us all, perhaps - don't make promises you can't keep............).

and given it's lateness, i hope this message isn't anticlimatic.......

OK, now onto the Borock interview and the "Truth" about Terence Leder - a full day of reading ahead...........

Ze-man · March 14, 2005

Good luck with trying to decipher that Leder story.

Between the Leder /PGXit STL board threads, and our own.. I got lost in the jumble of names, people , companies, who did what, sold what, and bought what to and from whoom.

And who is telling the truth, and who is still lying through their teeth.

Ze-

toro · March 14, 2005

Wow, this has taken a few days to read. I want to get the publishing rights to this.

Anyways this in some ways reminds me of Baseball and steroids, pressing puts up big numbers, just like all those home runs.

Is this going to damage the industry, like steroids has damaged baseball? Who knows! But it seems like it has been going on for a very long time.

This has all been very enlightening to me!

garthgantu · March 14, 2005

My new theory, which is mine, as I own it:

SCS = non-color-breaking creases = more demand for localized pressing = resubs = more $ per book over time...it's a virtuous circle of never-ending profits for CGC !

Seriously, tho - if CGC is in fact planning a "sister service" in the area of pressing, you can just forget about them ever striving to detect and note it, let alone consider it resto.

As for those of us on the boards somehow representing a "vocal minority" or "silent majority" or whatever, CGC doesn't take the feedback/commentary from these boards very seriously. Voting with your wallet is one option, but I think what we've found in discussing this issue ad infinitum is that for a lot of comic book collectors, getting a particular issue in grade is the real objective. Most people are only passionate on the subject of pressing until it hits them where they live.

Look at it this way: even if a sizable portion of the "end market" for CGCed books - that'd be you and me, fellow collectors - stopped buying CGCed books out of concern that they might have been pressed, CGC would not glean this message from such behavior. They'd confer with the dealers who sell to us and ask "what the hell can we do to reignite the market?" Do you think the dealers would say "well, stop giving pressed books the same stamp of approval you give to unrestored books" ? CGC and the dealers would cook up some new money-making ploy like the Wizard First debacle, long before they'd try to tackle pressing.

esquirecomics · March 14, 2005

Yes, yes, I know. I spoke too soon. Please ALL forgive me!

I finally spoke to the person last night and we had a detailed conversation. I am typing my notes up for the person to review so that I do not misquote them. Due to both of us having kids that require a lot of time, it's taken longer than I envisioned. I will be sending my draft comments to the person tonight and they should be ready to post within a short period of time, and most certainly (barring an emergency situation) this week.

As far as this topic running its course, there is some truth in that as I do think we have said most of what can be said. The continuity of this discussion will largely probably revolve on new developments within the community such as statements issued or comments mentioned by dealers/big time collectors.

I will tell you that I am researching the legal issues surrounding undisclosed pressing and there is an argument to be made that nondisclosure of enhancements to books that significantly raise the value may be ripe for a civil lawsuit. I would be happy to discuss this with any of the attorneys on the boards and share thoughts/research.

In any event, I continue to strongly suggest to everyone that when you purchase books from dealers you require - if you care - that the dealer indicate in writing that they have not pressed, enhanced or restored the book in any way (of course, if CGC'd, the "restoration" aspect is already known) or that they are not aware of any prior pressing, enhancement or restoration work being conducted upon the book.

If the dealer is legit, they will sign. If not, then you can take that into consideration for future purchases. If you want to make a difference on this issue, this will do it. It directly impacts the bottom line $$$$$$.

awe4one · March 14, 2005

I'd shut up about it until you have the announcement in hand and ready to release.

Saying you're going to do a thing and not do it hurts your credibility. If you continue to say the info's coming you better have it ready because the longer it takes for you release it, the more your point will be lost due to speculation and disbelief on the audience's part...

Jim

esquirecomics · March 14, 2005

"Refrain from making promises before you're ready to deliver" would be more effective than "I'd shut up" Jim.

Ze-man · March 14, 2005

Easy guys.. easy...what is with the tempers, and personal jabs around here lately?

Mark, we will all most likely read what you have to say when it comes out.

If it is credible, then people will believe it... no matter if it was late, or on time.

If it is a crock.. then people will shoot it full of holes, be it late , or on time

I am not mad at you for taking longer then you had hoped to come out with whatever it is you are coming out with.

I just mad I cannot read it yet.

Ze-

BassGMan · March 15, 2005

Mark, you know what would be cool is if you were to just write out and post this little statement here in easy to understand but "legal sounding" terms. That way for those that care to ask dealers to sign the statement, they would have a well written and even perhaps recognizable (if it gets around enough) statement to use, or to at least use as a model for their own written statement. Otherwise, knowing us non-attorney guys, who knows what we'll come up with when we write our own terms. ----Sid

FFB · March 15, 2005

Translation: I am a whiny beeyotch and you are my latest target.

Ze-man · March 15, 2005

Hey.. he also had a large amount of speculation included in that post.

Trying to pigeon hole him into just one catagory.. shame shame sir.. shame

tay666 · March 15, 2005

Wouldn't that require a means of detecting pressing in order to prove that the book had had work done to it?

FFB · March 15, 2005

Don't you know, Kenny? That was legalese for "I love you, Jim."

Ze-man · March 15, 2005

Sorry.. I blew it..I am not a real lawyer, I just play one on T.V.

greggy · March 15, 2005

Night court lawyer?

Ze-man · March 15, 2005

Yeah, thats me..and I might even do a magic trick too... make one of Red's 100 pagers dissapear.

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Pressing

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