STAR WARS : The Force Awakens SPOILER Discussion

[jaybuck43]

Some people had a problem with Rey beating Kylo Ren. But honestly I didn't have a problem. He was injured, (more than once) and torn with emotion.

 

She was already very skilled herself with a staff, and is likely Luke's daughter.

Luke went against Vader, a powerful Jedi with very little training.

 

The messy fight was a nice change and seemed to make sense to me.

 

 

Luke spent about 2 months training with Yoda in Empire before facing (and getting his hand hacked off by) Vader

[Rip]

Ben's training was not more than hours. Yoda's was only days. Maybe a week, or so? Not really stated in the movie, but didn't seem to be that long.

 

Kylo didn't seem THAT powerful to me, at least not close to Vader level. Had a few tricks but was very uneven and torn throughout. Snoke even mentioned he was going to continue his training.

 

Has a lot of potential though.

[TSwift25]

Best Star Wars since Empire. Might be my favorite Star Wars. It captured so much of what made Star Wars great. When I walked out of the theater last night and someone in front of me said "can you believe they killed Han?" and the line waiting to get in just let out this groan that was so reminiscent of the "I am your father" super spoiler.

 

This was as fun as Star Wars has ever been. Clean slate to tell a new story, not fill in the blanks, great special effects, staying true to the "earthy" roots of the originals rather than just one big green screen. It was just epic.

[jaybuck43]

O there is no question Kylo is more powerful then Vader. He was able to stop a blaster shot, and HOLD IT, in mid air. He is capable of extracting thoughts out of peoples minds (He got BB-8s information from Poe, he got Rey's premonition/dreams out of her head as well) His problem is that he isn't focused, he is TOO driven by his rage.

 

As to the timeline of training (god I am about to admit I have no life)

 

Luke and Obi Wan:

Trained together for a few days, introduced the general concept of the force. Showed Luke the capabilities. Main training was blaster down training. Main fight: Blew up death star.

 

Luke and Yoda 1:

Trained together for 5-6 weeks, maybe 2 months. We know this because following the battle of Hoth, Luke leaves in his X-Wing with a fully functioning Hyperdrive. He jumps into light speed and went to Dagobah. Meanwhile Han and Leia and crew had a malfunctioning hyperdrive and had to travel from Hoth to Bespin without the use of light speed. Someone calculated that this should have taken about 1 month traveling at sub-light speed. Add to this the time that they hide in the astroid field which is about 7 days, we get to 5 weeks.

 

While Luke made great strides with Yoda, his training was in no way complete, and that is why Vader hands him his hand .

 

Luke and Yoda 2:

Approximately 1 year takes place between the end of Empire and start of Jedi. Luke has not returned to Dagobah in that time, training elsewhere off camera. One would assume that he was helping fight with the Rebels. While he was doing so, he was training and practicing (presumably guided by Obi-wan's Ghost) We get to see how much progress Luke has made during the Jabba scenes.

[Thawk]

Yeah, I gotta chime on on Rey's defeat of Kylo - that was totally believable to me - the guy was crazy emotional, but more than that - VERY wounded. He'd been shot in the side pretty badly (not to mention the few lucky swipes taken which only added to the damage). Rey had already demonstrated a high skill level with a staff weapon so the combination of her skill and Force Awakening against Kylo who was wounded badly and very emotionally distracted resulted in the disorganized scrappy fight we saw. Thought that was handled perfectly.

[Rip]

He's powerful with the force yes. But clearly not focused, as shown throughout the movie. Still learning. Needing more training as mentioned by Snoke. It was Ren's his major fear that he wasn't as powerful as Vader. (Rey was able to pull that out of Kylo remember)

 

Another point, Rey is VERY powerful with the force. She out-Forced Kylo when she pulled the saber to herself. He couldn't beat her.

 

He will be more powerful than Vader, likely, after training. But too uneven right now. Vader had years of experience at killing full Jedi's

 

I saw nothing in Empire that even showed close to 2 months. Not sure who calculated what. Or what was what distance from where but I just don't believe we are supposed to believe those few days shown in Empire was supposed to be 2 months. Also too hard to believe Han, Leia were in the Falcon and at Cloud city for months.

 

Ben's ghost is an interesting idea though, but again we have little idea what he did.

[jaybuck43]

Rip,

It's never expressly stated in Empire. We know that after Hoth, Luke jumps right into hyperdrive and got to Dagobah and started training with Yoda. Meanwhile Han is being chased by a star destroyer, goes into an astroid belt and hides for some time. Eventually he escapes, battles the star destroyer and clings onto it. Then they wait, eventually the fleet breaks up, dumps their garbage and jumps to light speed. Han says

Bespin. It's pretty far, but I think we can make it.

and they head to Bespin, with a broken/backup hyperdrive which slows their travel time.

 

 

[Rip]

I can agree the hyperdrive was broken, that's why the Empire beat them to Cloud City. But seems to much of a stretch to believe that was weeks, months?

I would think they would show something in the movie that suggested more time elapsed.

 

 

[jaybuck43]

Remember, Lucas thought you can measure speed in distance traveled "It did the Kessel Run in 12 Parsecs". So he probably thought showing the distance traveled WAS showing time elapse.

[PeasOfCrap]

I do not think this film had enough emphasis on Trade Federation embargos.

 

The midi-chlorians are strong with Ren!!!

[Mike's Rack]

I loved it, several minor nitpicks but they are not worth mentioning. I think it really was a reboot in disguise. I like that. It's keeping a lot of the stuff we loved and setting up a new palate for the creators. I see this as, a perfect launch to a new Star Wars chapter.

[Erndog]

My one minor gripe is when Ren was holding Rey captive, and she made the reference about being hunted by a man in a mask and then Ren takes it off.

 

That was not the time to humanize him. It diminished it when Han asks him later on. THAT was the time to humanize him. That was the moment, when Han says 'Take off your mask'.... that was the first time we should have seen Ren's real face. The father-son meeting. Would have really added to that scene. Otherwise, he took off his mask and we had already seen his face. it didn't add that extra "oomph" that could have been.

 

My 1 gripe.

 

Thoughts?

[s-man]

My one minor gripe is when Ren was holding Rey captive, and she made the reference about being hunted by a man in a mask and then Ren takes it off.

 

That was not the time to humanize him. It diminished it when Han asks him later on. THAT was the time to humanize him. That was the moment, when Han says 'Take off your mask'.... that was the first time we should have seen Ren's real face. The father-son meeting. Would have really added to that scene. Otherwise, he took off his mask and we had already seen his face. it didn't add that extra "oomph" that could have been.

 

My 1 gripe.

 

Thoughts?

 

Good point. It would have added to the father/son meeting certainly.

 

I saw it this morning and loved it. It truly felt like old school and new school had joined wonderfully. Just a couple of plot points didn't hit...like why didn't Han and crew hide BB better and not show him at all until they and he were safer?

 

Also did anyone else notice Han shot a stormtrooper without looking at him? Was that just a whimsical moment like he has been doing this so long he can sense where the STs are or does he feel the force a bit himself?

[kagenish]

Some people had a problem with Rey beating Kylo Ren. But honestly I didn't have a problem. He was injured, (more than once) and torn with emotion.

 

She was already very skilled herself with a staff, and is likely Luke's daughter.

Luke went against Vader, a powerful Jedi with very little training.

 

The messy fight was a nice change and seemed to make sense to me.

 

thats what i'm thinking that Rey is luke's daughter but had her memory wipe by luke when he went into hiding or looking for the 1st temple.

[Catwomancomics]

My one minor gripe is when Ren was holding Rey captive, and she made the reference about being hunted by a man in a mask and then Ren takes it off.

 

That was not the time to humanize him. It diminished it when Han asks him later on. THAT was the time to humanize him. That was the moment, when Han says 'Take off your mask'.... that was the first time we should have seen Ren's real face. The father-son meeting. Would have really added to that scene. Otherwise, he took off his mask and we had already seen his face. it didn't add that extra "oomph" that could have been.

 

My 1 gripe.

 

Thoughts?

 

Good point. It would have added to the father/son meeting certainly.

 

I saw it this morning and loved it. It truly felt like old school and new school had joined wonderfully. Just a couple of plot points didn't hit...like why didn't Han and crew hide BB better and not show him at all until they and he were safer?

 

Also did anyone else notice Han shot a stormtrooper without looking at him? Was that just a whimsical moment like he has been doing this so long he can sense where the STs are or does he feel the force a bit himself?

 

Maybe he heard the stormtrooper sneaking up? IMHO I don't think Han has any force ability in him. I also think that's why Ren is not as strong as Rey. I think that Rey ( Skywalker? ) has more potential and will be more powerful than Ren.

[Solar]

O there is no question Kylo is more powerful then Vader.

 

Sorry, I didn't get that AT ALL. Kylo has different powers that we haven't seen before, but there could be many reasons for that. He has a lot of flash, but little substance, which is demonstrated when Rey (who doesn't even know she can use the force) totally dominates him in their little mind-probing battle. I mean she shuts him out and then reverses it on him - that's even more impressive than beating him in the climactic battle, IMO.

 

Sure, he can force himself into a normal persons head or stop a blaster shot, but when confronted by someone who has a strong connection to the force and is mentally stable enough to focus it, he's just a confused man child who thrashes around like a 2 year old when things don't go his way.

 

Vader would have force-choked Kylo's punk before he could even ignite his lightsaber.

[Erndog]

My one minor gripe is when Ren was holding Rey captive, and she made the reference about being hunted by a man in a mask and then Ren takes it off.

 

That was not the time to humanize him. It diminished it when Han asks him later on. THAT was the time to humanize him. That was the moment, when Han says 'Take off your mask'.... that was the first time we should have seen Ren's real face. The father-son meeting. Would have really added to that scene. Otherwise, he took off his mask and we had already seen his face. it didn't add that extra "oomph" that could have been.

 

My 1 gripe.

 

Thoughts?

 

Good point. It would have added to the father/son meeting certainly.

 

 

 

Yeah, I think they missed the mark on this one.

 

I LOVE how Ren took temper tantrums. Shows he's young, inexperienced and not fully finished his training.

 

To me, that was humanizing him enough. They didn't need to show his face during the Rey encounter.

 

The Han/Ren meeting lost some of its impact when he took off his mask and we didnt even flinch.

[Petey's Wheatcake]

Apparently, George Lucas leaked major spoilers for The Force Awakens in 1977. I wouldn't be surprised if Disney sued him for revealing most of the important story beats 38 years ago.

 

All kidding aside, I really enjoyed the movie despite the obvious callbacks to A New Hope(and Empire and Jedi, to a lesser degree). It was just so darned entertaining, and I already love the new big 4.

 

My wife mentioned how Rey let the force work through her at the end of the fight, as opposed to Kylo, who was trying so hard to force the force that he couldn't maintain control. They make a very specific point of showing her close her eyes and give in to the force.

 

Of course, my wife is trying to make the biased point that females probably make better Jedi. I have to admit, Luke always struggled with trying too hard and he did need a couple movies to mature. Rey wouldn't have taken a weapon into the cave on Dagobah.

 

 

[nearmint]

My one minor gripe is when Ren was holding Rey captive, and she made the reference about being hunted by a man in a mask and then Ren takes it off.

 

That was not the time to humanize him. It diminished it when Han asks him later on. THAT was the time to humanize him. That was the moment, when Han says 'Take off your mask'.... that was the first time we should have seen Ren's real face. The father-son meeting. Would have really added to that scene. Otherwise, he took off his mask and we had already seen his face. it didn't add that extra "oomph" that could have been.

 

My 1 gripe.

 

Thoughts?

 

I'm sure they had him remove the mask so that we can see his shocked reaction when Rey turns his mind control back on him. But you're right, it does lessen the impact when he removes his mask for Han.

[retrothecollector]

O there is no question Kylo is more powerful then Vader. He was able to stop a blaster shot, and HOLD IT, in mid air. He is capable of extracting thoughts out of peoples minds (He got BB-8s information from Poe, he got Rey's premonition/dreams out of her head as well) His problem is that he isn't focused, he is TOO driven by his rage.

 

As to the timeline of training (god I am about to admit I have no life)

 

Luke and Obi Wan:

Trained together for a few days, introduced the general concept of the force. Showed Luke the capabilities. Main training was blaster down training. Main fight: Blew up death star.

 

Luke and Yoda 1:

Trained together for 5-6 weeks, maybe 2 months. We know this because following the battle of Hoth, Luke leaves in his X-Wing with a fully functioning Hyperdrive. He jumps into light speed and went to Dagobah. Meanwhile Han and Leia and crew had a malfunctioning hyperdrive and had to travel from Hoth to Bespin without the use of light speed. Someone calculated that this should have taken about 1 month traveling at sub-light speed. Add to this the time that they hide in the astroid field which is about 7 days, we get to 5 weeks.

 

While Luke made great strides with Yoda, his training was in no way complete, and that is why Vader hands him his hand .

 

Luke and Yoda 2:

Approximately 1 year takes place between the end of Empire and start of Jedi. Luke has not returned to Dagobah in that time, training elsewhere off camera. One would assume that he was helping fight with the Rebels. While he was doing so, he was training and practicing (presumably guided by Obi-wan's Ghost) We get to see how much progress Luke has made during the Jabba scenes.

Jay you and I share similar thoughts. All of this is 100% IMO. I love ROTJ, it beats ESB for me by 1 point. Jedi Luke Forever!!! I'm actually thinking about getting a old man Luke portrait tattoo, but I want to see how he performs in VIII.