Books you just cant find in the Wild 22 22

[cgcsketcherz]

On 4/9/2023 at 8:37 PM, Michael Browning said:

Several years ago, I found a near-complete collection of Archie Scooby Doo, along with a run of Harvey and DC Scooby Doo and a few Charlton and Gold Key, in a 50 cent bin. All the Archie and DC were unread and VF/NM. I sold them for $3 apiece to Lone Star Comics probably three years ago. I felt like I made a good profit on them, but wish I'd kept them now.

Same with Sonic. I found a dealer with almost a long box of Sonic issues that were bought and stored away when an old shop closed down. I bought those for a buck apiece and, again, sold them to Lone Star for around $3 each.

I now buy all the Sonics and Scooby Doos that I can get cheap. I've got a Scooby Doo 1 Gold Key in VG/Fine and a couple other Gold Keys, a Marvel #1, a Charlton #1 and an Archie #1. I also have two Scooby Doo original art covers - both by Dan Spiegle - a Gold Key cover and an Archie cover.

I recently found another long run of Sonics starting with the miniseries #1 and then the regular series #1 and about 30 issues thereafter for a buck each.

They sell very well.

I wish I had your luck! Good to hear that they are still in the wild. The best response I ever got was from a guy saying, I just got Sonic 1. My four year old will disown me if I sell, he just saw the Sonic movie and has gone full sonic fan. 

[Michael Browning]

On 4/9/2023 at 8:45 PM, cgcsketcherz said:

I wish I had your luck! Good to hear that they are still in the wild. The best response I ever got was from a guy saying, I just got Sonic 1. My four year old will disown me if I sell, he just saw the Sonic movie and has gone full sonic fan. 

When I find them, they're usually in a hidden box in the back room of a comic shop that hasn't seen the light of day in years. The Scooby Doo #1 Gold Key was on the wall at a comic shop for $1000 and I got it a little bit cheaper. I'd never seen a copy in the wild before then and I've only ever seen one other copy, which was in G- condition.

At the same shop, I found runs of Akira and Miracleman. I bought both of those, too, but not nearly as cheap as the Sonics and Scooby Doos.

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 4/9/2023 at 7:45 PM, cgcsketcherz said:

I wish I had your luck! Good to hear that they are still in the wild. The best response I ever got was from a guy saying, I just got Sonic 1. My four year old will disown me if I sell, he just saw the Sonic movie and has gone full sonic fan. 

I have #4 newsstand, the chimney sweeper issue.

I thought about finding it for you, but if you want I will.

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 4/9/2023 at 8:28 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

On 4/9/2023 at 7:45 PM, cgcsketcherz said:

wish I had your luck! Good to hear that they are still in the wild. The best response I ever got was from a guy saying, I just got Sonic 1. My four year old will disown me if I sell, he just saw the Sonic movie and has gone full sonic fan. 

I have #4 newsstand, the chimney sweeper issue.

I thought about finding it for you, but if you want I will.

It's nm ish 

[Lazyboy]

On 4/9/2023 at 5:57 PM, fastballspecial said:

10s of thousands? 

Here is the circulation numbers for BB 33 in 2010.  We have separate circulation numbers for newsstands?
If so where are they? Is that what you are telling me?

So you are saying the newsstand circulation was 50% or more of the direct run? Because 10s of thousands
would mean at least 50% of the circulation numbers. 

Or are you saying that newsstand run is a separate circulation number we dont know.
That is just as big as the direct run from your statement above?

 

Those are (estimated) North American Direct distribution numbers. They have absolutely nothing to do with Newsstand print run and/or distribution numbers.

We know that publishers had no problem with avoiding or ending newsstand distribution for titles that they didn't think would sell or weren't selling through that channel.

[fastballspecial]

On 4/9/2023 at 9:48 PM, Lazyboy said:

On 4/9/2023 at 5:57 PM, fastballspecial said:

10s of thousands? 

Here is the circulation numbers for BB 33 in 2010.  We have separate circulation numbers for newsstands?
If so where are they? Is that what you are telling me?

So you are saying the newsstand circulation was 50% or more of the direct run? Because 10s of thousands
would mean at least 50% of the circulation numbers. 

Or are you saying that newsstand run is a separate circulation number we dont know.
That is just as big as the direct run from your statement above?

 

Expand  

Those are (estimated) North American Direct distribution numbers. They have absolutely nothing to do with Newsstand print run and/or distribution numbers.

We know that publishers had no problem with avoiding or ending newsstand distribution for titles that they didn't think would sell or weren't selling through that channel.

Well I gave you a chance to support your argument.  In fact I gave you several options to support it.
Anything up there have any evidence to support the 10s of thousands of copies you said are out there?

I gave you distribution numbers to give you a rough idea of what it could supposedly be. Obviously there is no
way newsstand numbers exceeded it in 2010.  Unless you want to say that as well. Think there were 20K newsstand
copies in 2010? Try answering some of the questions. 

Look, you really need to stop commenting on areas that don't seem to have any experience with. I get you don't like this part of the hobby.
It doesn't mean all of us are not right about the scarcity of these books. You keep making it sound like I can walk down to the local shop
and find a copy. I mean there were 10s of thousand copies right? 

You are not out looking for newsstands during this time period or even now. You didn't go to newsstands such as Barnes and Nobles
among other places and see 3 or 4 copies of each title if you were lucky. You dont have customers at shows asking if we can find these
books for them. You just keep making comments that nobody agrees with especially the people here that are buying and selling these
issues that we can't seem to find anywhere or if we do they are roached.

Its like you are telling all of us dealers who have customers looking for these books or for our own personal collections that we
are all wrong.  If there is some huge supply somewhere please point me where. 

 

 

Edited April 10, 2023 by fastballspecial

[cgcsketcherz]

On 4/9/2023 at 9:31 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

It's nm ish 

I have been looking for this issue, for a LONG time!

[Lazyboy]

On 4/9/2023 at 10:07 PM, fastballspecial said:

Well I gave you a chance to support your argument.  In fact I gave you several options to support it.
Anything up there have any evidence to support the 10s of thousands of copies you said are out there?

That's not what I said. If you're unable to understand me, please don't respond unless it's to ask for clarification.

On 4/9/2023 at 10:07 PM, fastballspecial said:

I gave you distribution numbers to give you a rough idea of what it could supposedly be. Obviously there is no
way newsstand numbers exceeded it in 2010.

Why not? I guarantee there were always titles that sold better through the newsstand channel.

Do I think that The Brave and the Bold was one of them? No, I don't.

On 4/9/2023 at 10:07 PM, fastballspecial said:

  Unless you want to say that as well. Think there were 20K newsstand
copies in 2010? Try answering some of the questions. 

Try understanding what I'm saying.

On 4/9/2023 at 10:07 PM, fastballspecial said:

Look, you really need to stop commenting on areas that don't seem to have any experience with. I get you don't like this part of the hobby.
It doesn't mean all of us are not right about the scarcity of these books.

On 4/9/2023 at 10:07 PM, fastballspecial said:

You keep making it sound like I can walk down to the local shop and find a copy.

I absolutely do not. I wouldn't even make a large wager that I could get an X-Men (v.2) 1 from any of the local comic shops within a couple of hours (during regular business hours), even though it's fairly likely. There are no guarantees that any comic (especially if it being further narrowed down to a specific version) is or will be available via a specific venue at a specific time.

On 4/9/2023 at 10:07 PM, fastballspecial said:

I mean there were 10s of thousand copies right?

Printed. Some of which were actually "returned" (properly disposed of after not selling) and no longer exist.

On 4/9/2023 at 10:07 PM, fastballspecial said:

You are not out looking for newsstands during this time period or even now. You didn't go to newsstands such as Barnes and Nobles
among other places and see 3 or 4 copies of each title if you were lucky.

Really? It's amazing that you somehow know  things about me that aren't true, but don't know the much more important things that are true.

On 4/9/2023 at 10:07 PM, fastballspecial said:

You dont have customers at shows asking if we can find these books for them. 

You're finally correct about something. Lots of people have purchased Newsstands from me, and lots of people have asked if I had specific comics. But when I've set up at shows (semi-regularly since 2007), not one person has ever specifically asked me for Newsstands. Not a single person!

On 4/9/2023 at 10:07 PM, fastballspecial said:

You just keep making comments that nobody agrees with especially the people here that are buying and selling these
issues that we can't seem to find anywhere or if we do they are roached.

Until last year, I had never seen a copy of New Titans 130 in person. Does that mean I believed they didn't exist or were ultra rare? Of course not, because I'm not an insufficiently_thoughtful_person.

On 4/9/2023 at 10:07 PM, fastballspecial said:

Its like you are telling all of us dealers who have customers looking for these books or for our own personal collections that we
are all wrong.  If there is some huge supply somewhere please point me where.

They're all over the place, but acquiring them requires being in the right place at the right time. Plus, of course, many are currently locked up in collections and nobody but their owners know where they are. Anybody who does have large supplies is unlikely to talk in public about the stolen property they have in their possession.

 

How many copies do you believe exist of this book:

?

[jdandns]

Is the answer "two", and that's both of them right there? 

[Poutine]

Not a bad thing, that cover isn't great

[Lazyboy]

On 4/9/2023 at 11:41 PM, jdandns said:

Is the answer "two", and that's both of them right there? 

I know it's a Newsstand. I know it's an error version. I know why/how the error came to be. I know there's a corrected version. I have no idea how many copies were printed or still exist. I will not offer a wild guess of a number, based on nothing, because I know I don't know.

[topcat54]

On 4/10/2023 at 12:05 AM, Lazyboy said:

That's not what I said. If you're unable to understand me, please don't respond unless it's to ask for clarification.

Why not? I guarantee there were always titles that sold better through the newsstand channel.

Do I think that The Brave and the Bold was one of them? No, I don't.

Try understanding what I'm saying.

I absolutely do not. I wouldn't even make a large wager that I could get an X-Men (v.2) 1 from any of the local comic shops within a couple of hours (during regular business hours), even though it's fairly likely. There are no guarantees that any comic (especially if it being further narrowed down to a specific version) is or will be available via a specific venue at a specific time.

Printed. Some of which were actually "returned" (properly disposed of after not selling) and no longer exist.

Really? It's amazing that you somehow know  things about me that aren't true, but don't know the much more important things that are true.

You're finally correct about something. Lots of people have purchased Newsstands from me, and lots of people have asked if I had specific comics. But when I've set up at shows (semi-regularly since 2007), not one person has ever specifically asked me for Newsstands. Not a single person!

Until last year, I had never seen a copy of New Titans 130 in person. Does that mean I believed they didn't exist or were ultra rare? Of course not, because I'm not an insufficiently_thoughtful_person.

They're all over the place, but acquiring them requires being in the right place at the right time. Plus, of course, many are currently locked up in collections and nobody but their owners know where they are. Anybody who does have large supplies is unlikely to talk in public about the stolen property they have in their possession.

 

How many copies do you believe exist of this book:

?

It is difficult to calculate the precise number of error variants but it is likely to be a very small number given the newsstand market was just over 10% of the total comic distribution at this time and also given that the error variant was only a tiny proportion of that (plus some error copies may have been returned/pulped, either due to the error or due to not being sold).

[paqart]

On 4/9/2023 at 8:37 PM, Michael Browning said:

Several years ago, I found a near-complete collection of Archie Scooby Doo, along with a run of Harvey and DC Scooby Doo and a few Charlton and Gold Key, in a 50 cent bin. All the Archie and DC were unread and VF/NM. I sold them for $3 apiece to Lone Star Comics probably three years ago. I felt like I made a good profit on them, but wish I'd kept them now.

Same with Sonic. I found a dealer with almost a long box of Sonic issues that were bought and stored away when an old shop closed down. I bought those for a buck apiece and, again, sold them to Lone Star for around $3 each.

I now buy all the Sonics and Scooby Doos that I can get cheap. I've got a Scooby Doo 1 Gold Key in VG/Fine and a couple other Gold Keys, a Marvel #1, a Charlton #1 and an Archie #1. I also have two Scooby Doo original art covers - both by Dan Spiegle - a Gold Key cover and an Archie cover.

I recently found another long run of Sonics starting with the miniseries #1 and then the regular series #1 and about 30 issues thereafter for a buck each.

They sell very well.

I was art director and co-producer on a Scooby-Doo video game a long time ago. For the project, I went into the HB archives and pawed through thousands of pages of model sheets, many of which were drawn by Alex Toth, looking for the sheets for every one of the 110 monsters featured in the original series. Those went to the 3D artists to make models from. I then hired Mark Evanier to write the -script, Dan Spiegle to design the environments, Jerry Eisenberg and Kyle Baker to design some new characters, Michael Takamoto for storyboards, and Mike Royer to turn Spiegle's production sketches into plan drawings we could build from. Spiegle and Royer must have made hundreds of drawings while they were on the project. Whenever I went to his house to pick up art or discuss the project, he always gave me a bag of avocados from his orchard. That was the good part of the project. The part where I got stuck in China for six weeks redrawing frames of 2D animation was a nightmare.
Attached is the 3D model of Scooby that I made for the project.

[paqart]

On 4/9/2023 at 10:48 PM, Lazyboy said:

Those are (estimated) North American Direct distribution numbers. They have absolutely nothing to do with Newsstand print run and/or distribution numbers.

We know that publishers had no problem with avoiding or ending newsstand distribution for titles that they didn't think would sell or weren't selling through that channel.

Based on the information in your post, is it safe to estimate the newsstand print run as between zero and ten trillion? Or do you think it is closer to the 21,000 reported by Michael Browning?

[Lazyboy]

On 4/10/2023 at 9:02 AM, topcat54 said:

It is difficult to calculate the precise number of error variants but it is likely to be a very small number given the newsstand market was just over 10% of the total comic distribution at this time and also given that the error variant was only a tiny proportion of that (plus some error copies may have been returned/pulped, either due to the error or due to not being sold).

According to what source? Also, remember that even if you know the overall newsstand percentage, that cannot be applied to individual issues because of Direct-only titles and differences in sales between different titles.

[paqart]

On 4/10/2023 at 12:05 AM, Lazyboy said:

 

You're finally correct about something. Lots of people have purchased Newsstands from me, and lots of people have asked if I had specific comics. But when I've set up at shows (semi-regularly since 2007), not one person has ever specifically asked me for Newsstands. Not a single person!

 

There may be a reason for that. When I go to shows, I look for newsstands exclusively for all modern comics. I never ask dealers if they have any. If they do, I find them, and the price is right, I buy them. Twice, I got into a conversation with a dealer about newsstands. The first time was at the NYCC in 2019. After buying a couple of newsstands from a dealer, both of which were labelled, "newsstand", the dealer told me that they were very hard to find. As an example, he pointed to a table across the aisle and told me it belonged to one of the biggest dealers in the northeast (New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, etc). "That guy has been trying to put together a set of ASM 600-700 in newsstand for a couple of years. He has thousands of comics coming through his shop every month. He still hasn't succeeded." The second occasion was a local show where someone rented a table to sell his personal collection of comics. After buying all of his John Byrne Namors, we discussed newsstands a bit.

Normally, the subject doesn't come up at all.

Edited April 10, 2023 by paqart

[Lazyboy]

On 4/10/2023 at 12:55 PM, paqart said:

Based on the information in your post, is it safe to estimate the newsstand print run as between zero and ten trillion? Or do you think it is closer to the 21,000 reported by Michael Browning?

What does Michael Browning have to do with this?

It is very safe to assume it's a 5-digit number, though the 21,528 number has absolutely no significance or connection to any newsstand number.

[Lazyboy]

On 4/10/2023 at 1:05 PM, paqart said:

On 4/9/2023 at 11:05 PM, Lazyboy said:

 

You're finally correct about something. Lots of people have purchased Newsstands from me, and lots of people have asked if I had specific comics. But when I've set up at shows (semi-regularly since 2007), not one person has ever specifically asked me for Newsstands. Not a single person!

 

There may be a reason for that. When I go to shows, I look for newsstands exclusively for all modern comics. I never ask dealers if they have any. If they do, I find them, and the price is right, I buy them. Twice, I got into a conversation with a dealer about newsstands. The first time was at the NYCC in 2019. After buying a couple of newsstands from a dealer, both of which were labelled, "newsstand", the dealer told me that they were very hard to find. As an example, he pointed to a table across the aisle and told me it belonged to one of the biggest dealers in the northeast (New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, etc). "That guy has been trying to put together a set of ASM 600-700 in newsstand for a couple of years. He has thousands of comics coming through his shop every month. He still hasn't succeeded." The second occasion was a local show where someone rented a table to sell his personal collection of comics. After buying all of his John Byrne Namors, we discussed newsstands a bit.

Normally, the subject doesn't come up at all.

Edited 1 minute ago by paqart

That was a response to fastballspecial, who was implying that he has people asking about them all the time. If you think nobody would ever ask dealers about Newsstands, take it up with him.

[cgcsketcherz]

On 4/10/2023 at 1:51 PM, paqart said:

I was art director and co-producer on a Scooby-Doo video game a long time ago. For the project, I went into the HB archives and pawed through thousands of pages of model sheets, many of which were drawn by Alex Toth, looking for the sheets for every one of the 110 monsters featured in the original series. Those went to the 3D artists to make models from. I then hired Mark Evanier to write the --script, Dan Spiegle to design the environments, Jerry Eisenberg and Kyle Baker to design some new characters, Michael Takamoto for storyboards, and Mike Royer to turn Spiegle's production sketches into plan drawings we could build from. Spiegle and Royer must have made hundreds of drawings while they were on the project. Whenever I went to his house to pick up art or discuss the project, he always gave me a bag of avocados from his orchard. That was the good part of the project. The part where I got stuck in China for six weeks redrawing frames of 2D animation was a nightmare.
Attached is the 3D model of Scooby that I made for the project.

Thank you for the history lesson!

[Michael Browning]

On 4/10/2023 at 1:55 PM, paqart said:

Based on the information in your post, is it safe to estimate the newsstand print run as between zero and ten trillion? Or do you think it is closer to the 21,000 reported by Michael Browning?

Wasn’t me that said it.