General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean 29 29

[HarveySwick]

I don't think it was a "completed deal" and I'm not trying to still buy the book or I would be in the Probation Discussion thread and not the General Discussion thread.

 

I just think it was a cowardly, weasel move on the part of Spectre. THAT is your business ethics and that is how you build a future customer relationship? He's acting like he is a noob who has one nice book for sale? It's sad.

 

He realized that he mispriced a book and instead of just eating it, losing out on this deal and winning in the future, he came up with this lame "book sold via PM".

 

He could have replied "I can't do $2,000 on the combo and now that I think about it, I really can't do the $1,625 on the BA12. It was a mistake on my part for not realizing it was a newsstand and I got caught up in the moment. I'm sorry and hope you can understand. I can sell you the newsstand if you'd like for $x,xxx or I can give you a great deal on the non-newsstand copy for $x,xxx. I hope you understand."

 

There would be NOTHING to complain about.

 

I'm not trying to force a deal that wasn't consummated. I just think people should know he is a liar and how he conducts his business here. So in the future maybe people don't even bother sending him a PM to negotiate.

 

 

Am I on this many people's Ignore lists?

[revat]

ok, so there was no "I'll take it". Then why are we even talking about this? No deal was struck, no offer accepted then reneged. Probably would have been better to just say 'no' on the new offer by Harvey without saying it was sold (if it wasn't).

 

But as we don't have firm evidence of any wrong doing by the seller (and I certainly don't think he should have to produce it), what are we talking about here? Maybe he told a white lie to Harvey, maybe he reneged on his phantom 'buyer (or the buyer reneged on him)'. But who can say for sure, and why do we even care as no one is worse off here? other than MAYBE the seller.

 

 

 

Your definition of what's potentially a "white lie" is a really REALLY forgiving one.

 

maybe, but at the same time I'd rather not publicly call someone out as a liar without more concrete evidence, which I think has been done here. (although I agree the circumstances look bad).

 

To me white lies are told when you basically didn't have to lie and you stupidly did anyways, but you've only really harmed yourself if you're found out.

 

Like you tell your gf you had a bagel for breakfast when you really had some cereal (but you're afraid your gf will think you eat too much cereal). No reason to lie, she's not harmed either way, but if she found out she'd wonder why you're a liar. At worst, I think that's happened here. Seller could have just said 'no' to counter offer, but for some dumb reason like tiring of negotiations, misguided pride or something (or he actually thought he'd sold it at the time) said 'sold'. No one was harmed in the telling of the lie. No contracts broken.

 

Like if you go to the butcher and rib eye is on sale. You go in, they say they're out. You buy something else, come back 10 minutes later because you forgot your sunglasses and they've got ribeye again, and he's selling it to a suuuuper hot chick. Did they just get a ribeye shipment in 10 minutes? Did he find some in an unexpected place? Was he holding it for a customer? Does it really matter what he tells you? Would you believe him?

 

I might ask him about it, but I don't think I'd call him a liar without proof (which he would be under no obligation to provide)

 

 

I tend to draw the line of what's a white lie between 1) someone lying to someone to not hurt their feelings or avoid a fight and 2) lying during negotiations in a business deal with more than a $1,000 at issue.

 

If he felt he was selling it too low and lies to not sell it he's getting a material benefit through the lie.

 

How does your bagel analogy work if you're going in to buy a new car and you go in to pick it up and the salesman tells you "sorry it's already sold" and as you are walking out you see him offering the exact vehicle to someone else for a 20% markup on what you were going to pay?

 

Still no one hurt? Still bagel-esque?

 

I might feel a bit of remorse for not taking the deal at the offered price. I might question the morals/ethics of the seller. But mostly I'd just wonder "Why didn't they just tell me they want to sell it for more? I probably don't want to deal with him going forward. What a weirdo." I don't think I'd contact the better business bureau or call them a liar on yelp (even though I think they're lying). But that's just me. I can see where Harvey is coming from in terms of protecting a community (which I appreciate), and I know we all respond to things differently, I just feel like maybe its a bit much of policing over what amounts to poor customer service.

 

So yes, still a bagel. Or a butcher. Or whatever convoluted example I can come up with.

[jsilverjanet]

he was certainly within his rights to pull it.

 

[HarveySwick]

4:10 PM - Books listed.

5:21 PM - Initial offer made.

5:46 PM - Counteroffer made. (no mention of other buyer)

6:05 PM - Second counteroffer made. (no mention of other buyer despite discussing the book for close to an hour)

6:46 PM - I ask if there is possibility for a package deal since he just said the read of his books in his thread were "absolute junk".

6:53 PM - "Sorry, book sold via PM"

7:38 PM - Junkdrawer posts in the thread.

7:48 PM - Spectre PMs Junkdrawer and the book is still available.

 

Using this timeline and according to your PM in the spoiler tag, at 5:46 he already knew that newsstand copies were tough to find. He said it himself in the PM.

 

If he knew that they were tough to find, then he was able to differentiate between them before the book was no longer available.

 

Also, I have personally passed on deals on this chat forum (both publicly and privately) because someone else wanted the book, or because someone realized I was buying it too cheap and it was someone who I did a lot of business with and didn't mind leaving the extra coin in the seller's pocket. I've also passed on purchases so that others can make money on them. It happens.

 

Is there any proof that there wasn't another buyer or is everyone just assuming it was a lie?

 

From what I'm reading, right now both outcomes are possible.

 

So, what you're suggesting is:

 

1) Sometime between 6:05 PM to 6:53 PM, the book was sold.

2) 7:38 PM, Junkdrawer posts in the sales thread.

3) 7:48 PM, within TEN minutes, the original "buyer" saw Junkdrawer's post, PMed Spectre and discuss his reasons for cancelling the deal out of some showing of good will and then Spectre was able to see these responses via PM and un-ignore Junkdrawer and offer the book to him?

 

OR

 

At about 6:05 PM to 6:46 PM, Spectre had a change of heart and realized he priced his book too low and instead of admitting that, he made up a fake sale to get out of the deal?

 

 

All things are possible, sure. Then why doesn't the phantom buyer just post in defense of Spectre? They're friends, right? He was just giving up a deal so that his friend could sell for more? Why won't he just post - "I was the buyer."

[comix4fun]

ok, so there was no "I'll take it". Then why are we even talking about this? No deal was struck, no offer accepted then reneged. Probably would have been better to just say 'no' on the new offer by Harvey without saying it was sold (if it wasn't).

 

But as we don't have firm evidence of any wrong doing by the seller (and I certainly don't think he should have to produce it), what are we talking about here? Maybe he told a white lie to Harvey, maybe he reneged on his phantom 'buyer (or the buyer reneged on him)'. But who can say for sure, and why do we even care as no one is worse off here? other than MAYBE the seller.

 

 

 

Your definition of what's potentially a "white lie" is a really REALLY forgiving one.

 

maybe, but at the same time I'd rather not publicly call someone out as a liar without more concrete evidence, which I think has been done here. (although I agree the circumstances look bad).

 

To me white lies are told when you basically didn't have to lie and you stupidly did anyways, but you've only really harmed yourself if you're found out.

 

Like you tell your gf you had a bagel for breakfast when you really had some cereal (but you're afraid your gf will think you eat too much cereal). No reason to lie, she's not harmed either way, but if she found out she'd wonder why you're a liar. At worst, I think that's happened here. Seller could have just said 'no' to counter offer, but for some dumb reason like tiring of negotiations, misguided pride or something (or he actually thought he'd sold it at the time) said 'sold'. No one was harmed in the telling of the lie. No contracts broken.

 

Like if you go to the butcher and rib eye is on sale. You go in, they say they're out. You buy something else, come back 10 minutes later because you forgot your sunglasses and they've got ribeye again, and he's selling it to a suuuuper hot chick. Did they just get a ribeye shipment in 10 minutes? Did he find some in an unexpected place? Was he holding it for a customer? Does it really matter what he tells you? Would you believe him?

 

I might ask him about it, but I don't think I'd call him a liar without proof (which he would be under no obligation to provide)

 

 

I tend to draw the line of what's a white lie between 1) someone lying to someone to not hurt their feelings or avoid a fight and 2) lying during negotiations in a business deal with more than a $1,000 at issue.

 

If he felt he was selling it too low and lies to not sell it he's getting a material benefit through the lie.

 

How does your bagel analogy work if you're going in to buy a new car and you go in to pick it up and the salesman tells you "sorry it's already sold" and as you are walking out you see him offering the exact vehicle to someone else for a 20% markup on what you were going to pay?

 

Still no one hurt? Still bagel-esque?

 

I might feel a bit of remorse for not taking the deal at the offered price. I might question the morals/ethics of the seller. But mostly I'd just wonder "Why didn't they just tell me they want to sell it for more? I probably don't want to deal with him going forward. What a weirdo." I don't think I'd contact the better business bureau or call them a liar on yelp (even though I think they're lying). But that's just me. I can see where Harvey is coming from in terms of protecting a community (which I appreciate), and I know we all respond to things differently, I just feel like maybe its a bit much of policing over what amounts to poor customer service.

 

So yes, still a bagel. Or a butcher. Or whatever convoluted example I can come up with.

 

 

Short version of how I differentiate and maybe it's how we personally define things:

 

White Lie = Saves the other person (embarrassment, anger, etc)

Non-White Lie = Saves me personally (doing something I don't want to do, losing money, etc).

 

One's selfless, One's selfish.

 

If there's an honest way in a business deal to say or do something I can't imagine ever choosing to do so.

[wombat]

he was certainly within his rights to pull it.

 

 

Do you disagree? If someone makes an offer (buyer or seller) and the other side had not accepted it is the person not within their rights to pull it?

[revat]

he was certainly within his rights to pull it.

 

 

Do you disagree? If someone makes an offer (buyer or seller) and the other side had not accepted it is the person not within their rights to pull it?

 

that's why the lie (if it is a lie) is so stupid and unnecessary. Which I agree is concerning. If someone doesn't hesitate to lie when its not necessary, howabout when it is?

[KPR Comics]

he was certainly within his rights to pull it.

 

 

Do you disagree? If someone makes an offer (buyer or seller) and the other side had not accepted it is the person not within their rights to pull it?

Hector is only 13. Cut him some slack

[VintageComics]

 

All things are possible, sure. Then why doesn't the phantom buyer just post in defense of Spectre? They're friends, right? He was just giving up a deal so that his friend could sell for more? Why won't he just post - "I was the buyer."

 

All things are possible.

 

Personally, I think if you have a problem with a board member you should try to resolve it with them privately first and if that problem remains unresolved then make it public rather than light pitchforks and then wait for an answer.

 

That 's the proper way to resolve a problem.

[HarveySwick]

he was certainly within his rights to pull it.

 

 

Do you disagree? If someone makes an offer (buyer or seller) and the other side had not accepted it is the person not within their rights to pull it?

 

that's why the lie (if it is a lie) is so stupid and unnecessary. Which I agree is concerning. If someone doesn't hesitate to lie when its not necessary, howabout when it is?

 

I've posted this several times.

 

I just think it was a cowardly, weasel move on the part of Spectre. THAT is your business ethics and that is how you build a future customer relationship? He's acting like he is a noob who has one nice book for sale? It's sad.

 

He realized that he mispriced a book and instead of just eating it, losing out on this deal and winning in the future, he came up with this lame "book sold via PM".

 

He could have replied "I can't do $2,000 on the combo and now that I think about it, I really can't do the $1,625 on the BA12. It was a mistake on my part for not realizing it was a newsstand and I got caught up in the moment. I'm sorry and hope you can understand. I can sell you the newsstand if you'd like for $x,xxx or I can give you a great deal on the non-newsstand copy for $x,xxx. I hope you understand."

 

There would be NOTHING to complain about.

 

I'm not trying to force a deal that wasn't consummated. I just think people should know he is a liar and how he conducts his business here. So in the future maybe people don't even bother sending him a PM to negotiate.

 

If he was honest and just relayed what I underlined, I wouldn't have batted and eye and that would have been the end of it. YES, he had every right to take back his offer before it was accepted. YES, his offer wasn't accepted and a new counteroffer proposed. But, why the need for a lie in the first place?? I've posted my PMs to show I wasn't exactly twisting his arm to sell the book at a reduced price.

 

I can't figure out for the life of me how (1) people still question if there actually was a buyer, (2) why people are trying to argue whether or not this was a completed deal or not and (3) whether a seller has a right to withdraw an offer before it was accepted.

[jsilverjanet]

he was certainly within his rights to pull it.

 

 

Do you disagree? If someone makes an offer (buyer or seller) and the other side had not accepted it is the person not within their rights to pull it?

Hector is only 13. Cut him some slack

Bingo!

 

You said pulled it

[Ryan.]

Oh god! I just dropped a peanut butter cup on the floor and there is funk all over it. This is terrible.

[1Cool]

4:10 PM - Books listed.

5:21 PM - Initial offer made.

5:46 PM - Counteroffer made. (no mention of other buyer)

6:05 PM - Second counteroffer made. (no mention of other buyer despite discussing the book for close to an hour)

6:46 PM - I ask if there is possibility for a package deal since he just said the read of his books in his thread were "absolute junk".

6:53 PM - "Sorry, book sold via PM"

7:38 PM - Junkdrawer posts in the thread.

7:48 PM - Spectre PMs Junkdrawer and the book is still available.

 

Using this timeline and according to your PM in the spoiler tag, at 5:46 he already knew that newsstand copies were tough to find. He said it himself in the PM.

 

If he knew that they were tough to find, then he was able to differentiate between them before the book was no longer available.

 

Also, I have personally passed on deals on this chat forum (both publicly and privately) because someone else wanted the book, or because someone realized I was buying it too cheap and it was someone who I did a lot of business with and didn't mind leaving the extra coin in the seller's pocket. I've also passed on purchases so that others can make money on them. It happens.

 

Is there any proof that there wasn't another buyer or is everyone just assuming it was a lie?

 

From what I'm reading, right now both outcomes are possible.

 

So, what you're suggesting is:

 

1) Sometime between 6:05 PM to 6:53 PM, the book was sold.

2) 7:38 PM, Junkdrawer posts in the sales thread.

3) 7:48 PM, within TEN minutes, the original "buyer" saw Junkdrawer's post, PMed Spectre and discuss his reasons for cancelling the deal out of some showing of good will and then Spectre was able to see these responses via PM and un-ignore Junkdrawer and offer the book to him?

 

OR

 

At about 6:05 PM to 6:46 PM, Spectre had a change of heart and realized he priced his book too low and instead of admitting that, he made up a fake sale to get out of the deal?

 

 

All things are possible, sure. Then why doesn't the phantom buyer just post in defense of Spectre? They're friends, right? He was just giving up a deal so that his friend could sell for more? Why won't he just post - "I was the buyer."

 

So you are saying there is no way that the "buyer" and the seller couldn't come to an agreement between 6:53 and 7:48 that he should find another buyer for more money? No way in 51 minutes two people could discuss this issue and then have the seller respond to a request that pops up in his thread? October could sell 100 books in 51 minutes - that's an eternity on the boards. I don't know either way but I definitely wouldn't call anyone a liar and attempt to disrupt his business with more proof then you have. I'd think his mystery buyer would pop in but deciding if a person is a liar because someone doesn't back him up is pretty severe.

Edited August 5, 2015 by 1Cool

[Jeffro.]

Oh god! I just dropped a peanut butter cup on the floor and there is funk all over it. This is terrible.

 

Two great things that go great together

[HarveySwick]

I give up.

[Buzzetta]

So Swick tried to do Junk a solid

Specter did something unsavory

Swick calls him out on it

People taking sides and want more info

 

I have one question...

 

 

How long will Columbia Comics be suspended for?

For what, dirtbag?

 

It was a joke that fell flat. I will sit on the sidelines for another couple of hours.

[Jeffro.]

I don't think it was a "completed deal" and I'm not trying to still buy the book or I would be in the Probation Discussion thread and not the General Discussion thread.

 

I just think it was a cowardly, weasel move on the part of Spectre. THAT is your business ethics and that is how you build a future customer relationship? He's acting like he is a noob who has one nice book for sale? It's sad.

 

He realized that he mispriced a book and instead of just eating it, losing out on this deal and winning in the future, he came up with this lame "book sold via PM".

 

He could have replied "I can't do $2,000 on the combo and now that I think about it, I really can't do the $1,625 on the BA12. It was a mistake on my part for not realizing it was a newsstand and I got caught up in the moment. I'm sorry and hope you can understand. I can sell you the newsstand if you'd like for $x,xxx or I can give you a great deal on the non-newsstand copy for $x,xxx. I hope you understand."

 

There would be NOTHING to complain about.

 

I'm not trying to force a deal that wasn't consummated. I just think people should know he is a liar and how he conducts his business here. So in the future maybe people don't even bother sending him a PM to negotiate.

 

 

Am I on this many people's Ignore lists?

 

I'm just waiting on the Swick Report In Context

[wombat]

Oh god! I just dropped a peanut butter cup on the floor and there is funk all over it. This is terrible.

 

Its all good. A little floor spice makes everything nice.

 

Edited August 5, 2015 by wombat

[seanfingh]

he was certainly within his rights to pull it.

 

 

Do you disagree? If someone makes an offer (buyer or seller) and the other side had not accepted it is the person not within their rights to pull it?

 

that's why the lie (if it is a lie) is so stupid and unnecessary. Which I agree is concerning. If someone doesn't hesitate to lie when its not necessary, howabout when it is?

 

I've posted this several times.

 

I just think it was a cowardly, weasel move on the part of Spectre. THAT is your business ethics and that is how you build a future customer relationship? He's acting like he is a noob who has one nice book for sale? It's sad.

 

He realized that he mispriced a book and instead of just eating it, losing out on this deal and winning in the future, he came up with this lame "book sold via PM".

 

He could have replied "I can't do $2,000 on the combo and now that I think about it, I really can't do the $1,625 on the BA12. It was a mistake on my part for not realizing it was a newsstand and I got caught up in the moment. I'm sorry and hope you can understand. I can sell you the newsstand if you'd like for $x,xxx or I can give you a great deal on the non-newsstand copy for $x,xxx. I hope you understand."

 

There would be NOTHING to complain about.

 

I'm not trying to force a deal that wasn't consummated. I just think people should know he is a liar and how he conducts his business here. So in the future maybe people don't even bother sending him a PM to negotiate.

 

If he was honest and just relayed what I underlined, I wouldn't have batted and eye and that would have been the end of it. YES, he had every right to take back his offer before it was accepted. YES, his offer wasn't accepted and a new counteroffer proposed. But, why the need for a lie in the first place?? I've posted my PMs to show I wasn't exactly twisting his arm to sell the book at a reduced price.

 

I can't figure out for the life of me how (1) people still question if there actually was a buyer, (2) why people are trying to argue whether or not this was a completed deal or not and (3) whether a seller has a right to withdraw an offer before it was accepted.

 

Obviously, it is because you are a n00b. This is how these always go. There are always people who are devil's advocates. Sometimes for the best and sometimes not.

[ChrisInBaltimore]

After this entire Swick debacle, I think I'm going to have to revisit my negotiation tactics. Swick came in $400 dollars under the ask. That is impressive and took some series cajones.

 

The incredible thing is it seemed to work. Then he dug in deeper asking for a second book in what was virtually a two for one at that point.

 

From now on, I will low ball the hell out of everyone and just start swinging my balls around.

Edited August 5, 2015 by ChrisInBaltimore