Mask Comics actual pricing 10 10

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

I bought this about a year ago and even then, the price had started to soften. The previous owner had only paid a couple thousand dollars less when he purchased it in 2019, which means a loss to him after the Heritage vig. Back at the time, there seemed to be a Mask 1 in every auction, as owners took advantage of the price run-up. Now that the full financial headwinds have hit, I haven’t seen this book at all. I think the holders of this book have collectively decided to wait it out. 
 

have I just been looking at the wrong times in the wrong places? Anyone else seem a Mask 1 on the market in the last 12 months?

[lou_fine]

On 2/2/2023 at 7:13 AM, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

have I just been looking at the wrong times in the wrong places? Anyone else seem a Mask 1 on the market in the last 12 months?

Just checked the first page of the HA archives and although there is no other copy graded higher than your CGC 5.5, there have been other sales: 

 https://comics.ha.com/c/search-results.zx?N=52+1060+790+231&Ntk=SI_Titles-Desc&Nty=1&Ntt=mask+comics+1&limitTo=all

Looks like Heritage had a total of 6 other sales in the past 12 months with one in March, April (exc. yours), May, September, November, and January.  In addition, it would appear that CC had one in December while I am quite sure that CL also had at least one or two, but too lazy to check since their auction archive is just a pile of doggie doo doo at best.  

The Heritage one in November was a CGC 3.0 graded copy that sold for $13,800 and the CC one in December was a "lowly" CGC 2.0 graded copy that managed to fetched $7,300 while the January 2023 was a restored copy, so hard to gauge much from that sale.  So, it would appear that even with all of these copies coming into the marketplace, prices for this all-time classic cover book still remains pretty strong.  

Edited February 2, 2023 by lou_fine

[comicjack]

On 2/2/2023 at 10:13 AM, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

I bought this about a year ago and even then, the price had started to soften. The previous owner had only paid a couple thousand dollars less when he purchased it in 2019, which means a loss to him after the Heritage vig. Back at the time, there seemed to be a Mask 1 in every auction, as owners took advantage of the price run-up. Now that the full financial headwinds have hit, I haven’t seen this book at all. I think the holders of this book have collectively decided to wait it out. 
 

have I just been looking at the wrong times in the wrong places? Anyone else seem a Mask 1 on the market in the last 12 months?

The classic covers will always do fine put it away for the family they will be happy 

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

On 2/2/2023 at 9:58 AM, lou_fine said:

Just checked the first page of the HA archives and although there is no other copy graded higher than your CGC 5.5, there have been other sales: 

 https://comics.ha.com/c/search-results.zx?N=52+1060+790+231&Ntk=SI_Titles-Desc&Nty=1&Ntt=mask+comics+1&limitTo=all

Looks like Heritage had a total of 6 other sales in the past 12 months with one in March, April (exc. yours), May, September, November, and January.  In addition, it would appear that CC had one in December while I am quite sure that CL also had at least one or two, but too lazy to check since their auction archive is just a pile of doggie doo doo at best.  

The Heritage one in November was a CGC 3.0 graded copy that sold for $13,800 and the CC one in December was a "lowly" CGC 2.0 graded copy that managed to fetched $7,300 while the January 2023 was a restored copy, so hard to gauge much from that sale.  So, it would appear that even with all of these copies coming into the marketplace, prices for this all-time classic cover book still remains pretty strong.  

Thanks Lou. I shoulda done what you did

[pmpknface]

HELLO!  Look what's back.  This copy went for $102k back in 6/21:

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/mask-comics-1-the-promise-collection-pedigree-rural-home-1945-cgc-vf-85-off-white-to-white-pages/p/7339-166072.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

[comicjack]

On 2/14/2023 at 12:34 PM, pmpknface said:

HELLO!  Look what's back.  This copy went for $102k back in 6/21:

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/mask-comics-1-the-promise-collection-pedigree-rural-home-1945-cgc-vf-85-off-white-to-white-pages/p/7339-166072.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

Can the magic happen again we will see 

[thehumantorch]

On 2/14/2023 at 10:58 AM, comicjack said:

Can the magic happen again we will see 

Perhaps the buyer in 2021 really wanted the book and circumstances forced him to sell but more likely it was purchased for a quick flip.  I realize it's part of the hobby now but I'm not a fan of people who likely don't care about the history of the books or collecting comics and only care about the Benjamin's.  It's a spectacular book but I hope the owner takes a haircut. 

[lou_fine]

On 2/14/2023 at 12:31 PM, thehumantorch said:

It's a spectacular book but I hope the owner takes a haircut. 

By haircut, do you mean just a trim or do you mean a scalping?  

Seriously though, the owner probably saw the single highest graded 8.5 Universal copy of Mask 2 sell for $118,700 on CL last summer and simply figure that his equivalent graded single highest graded 8.5 Universal copy of Mask 1 should be not only be able to sell for more than its original $102K purchase price, but also to surpass the $118.7K mark for the Mask 2.    

Will definitely be another one of the many big bellwether books that will be worth watching to gauge the current seeming strength of the GA marketplace relative to the current  seeming weakness in the SA, BA, and CA marketplaces.      

[manetteska]

On 2/14/2023 at 3:29 PM, lou_fine said:

By haircut, do you mean just a trim or do you mean a scalping?  

Seriously though, the owner probably saw the single highest graded 8.5 Universal copy of Mask 2 sell for $118,700 on CL last summer and simply figure that his equivalent graded single highest graded 8.5 Universal copy of Mask 1 should be not only be able to sell for more than its original $102K purchase price, but also to surpass the $118.7K mark for the Mask 2.    

Will definitely be another one of the many big bellwether books that will be worth watching to gauge the current seeming strength of the GA marketplace relative to the current  seeming weakness in the SA, BA, and CA marketplaces.      

But does someone plunking down $102k for a book (plus taxes) care about making maybe $6k net profit?

I know I wouldn’t buy a $100 book if the intent is to flip it for $106.

Edited February 15, 2023 by manetteska

[Professor K]

I've got a feeling there's gonna be a nice showdown at the end and the price may get up to 120,000 or more.

[pmpknface]

Well that didn't take long....

While not a Mask book, these (and others) came out of the gate swinging!

Really interested in seeing what these 2 do as well:

[lou_fine]

On 2/17/2023 at 5:40 AM, pmpknface said:

Really interested in seeing what these 2 do as well:

Well, really not that sure about the Startling Terror Tales, but I am quite confident that the Power 3 should do better than the $7,800 it achieved as a CGC  5.5 graded copy when it sold on Heritage back in October of 2021:  

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/power-comics-3-crowley-copy-pedigree-holyoke-publications-1944-cgc-fn-55-off-white-pages/a/122141-13644.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

But not so sure if it'll hit the $12K mark that Worldwide has it indicated for as "Sale Pending" as of yesterday after it was regraded a few short days ago on February 14th:  

https://www.wwcomics.com/comicdetail.asp?Product_ID=PowerComics_3_14109

http://images.wwcomics.com/images/medium/PwrC_3_Crw.jpg

Edited February 17, 2023 by lou_fine

[Professor K]

Yeah but the lack of a back cover scan could affect the price. Wait. Could? Will, that's better.

Two full grades higher. Why can't I ever be that lucky. But looking at it now in the 5.5 holder on HA and it does look better than that. Maybe it deserved a bump, at least a full grade.

 

[comicjack]

On 2/17/2023 at 11:38 PM, Professor K said:

Yeah but the lack of a back cover scan could affect the price. Wait. Could? Will, that's better.

Two full grades higher. Why can't I ever be that lucky. But looking at it now in the 5.5 holder on HA and it does look better than that. Maybe it deserved a bump, at least a full grade.

 

The grading was so much tighter back then that is why old labels can be upgraded sometimes.That one got really lucky but it could have gone the other way always a gamble 

[Professor K]

On 2/18/2023 at 8:27 AM, comicjack said:

The grading was so much tighter back then that is why old labels can be upgraded sometimes.That one got really lucky but it could have gone the other way always a gamble 

Yes that is true, It was tighter. In this example even the graders notes list more defects in 2000. Perhaps that means that in 2023 those defects were overlooked intentionally or not noticed at all. To be clear, I'm not making any insinuations of preferential treatment on this book as "judging by the cover" it does look better than a 5.5.  Looks like it deserved an upgrade. It's gonna get lots of healthy bids fer sure.

 

 

[lou_fine]

On 2/17/2023 at 8:38 PM, Professor K said:

Two full grades higher. Why can't I ever be that lucky. But looking at it now in the 5.5 holder on HA and it does look better than that. Maybe it deserved a bump, at least a full grade.

 

On 2/18/2023 at 5:27 AM, comicjack said:

The grading was so much tighter back then that is why old labels can be upgraded sometimes.That one got really lucky but it could have gone the other way always a gamble 

Probably a bit of luck in there, but I strongly believe it's due much more to knowledge, skills, experience, and hard work as Steve is without doubt one of the top private dealers out there and stays right on top of his game when it comes to the marketplace.  

No doubt he was schooled and learned a lot from the best when Matt was his former partner at Worldwide, but that's definitely to his credit as for some, it would have simply gone right over their heads.  As a result, I am sure that Steve knows exactly what to look for when it comes to maximizing the potential on a book and also keeps right on top of what is allowed and not allowed, because the goalposts do tend to shift slightly over time. 

Big big kudos to Steve for being pretty much the only dealer having the balls to even try the CPR process on some of the Promise Collection books and actually being successful at it with a few of the books which I have seen here.  Well deserved since he clearly knows his stuff and I love his passion and knowledge of the comic books, especially when it comes to some of the comic book pedigrees.  

Edited February 18, 2023 by lou_fine

[pmpknface]

Ok...  WOW.

First off - thanks to @lou_fine & @Professor K for the info!  

Now:  That's a big upgrade!  I'm looking at these copies now and I can see how Power 3 could be upgraded, especially with a C&P.  One thing stands out though...

Looking at the grader's notes I saw there mentioned a few cover chips and the 2nd grading doesn't, and I thought that was odd.  On the HA listing here's a pic of what I think the chip is:

Here's the CL book, same spot...

I don't know...  either this was some form of resto or these aren't the same books.  At this point I'm thinking there are 2 Crowley copies or one of them isn't one.  If there's one thing I can count on it's CGC finding color touch / resto so I can't believe that this was just passed over if that's what it was.  I don't know much about the Crowley Ped's to know if there are any multiple copies, a certificate, or how they discern the provenance of a pedigree book (I've never owned any ped) to get that on the label.  

That said, it's at $3,200 with 9+ days to go.  

Thoughts???

[lou_fine]

On 2/21/2023 at 6:09 AM, pmpknface said:

I don't know...  either this was some form of resto or these aren't the same books.  At this point I'm thinking there are 2 Crowley copies or one of them isn't one.  If there's one thing I can count on it's CGC finding color touch / resto so I can't believe that this was just passed over if that's what it was.  I don't know much about the Crowley Ped's to know if there are any multiple copies, a certificate, or how they discern the provenance of a pedigree book (I've never owned any ped) to get that on the label.  

That said, it's at $3,200 with 9+ days to go.  

Thoughts???

That's an excellent catch on your part there and one that I was too lazy to follow up on since I was just looking at that miniscule WW scan.    

I actually did take a look at the notes and the first thing that came to my mind was that pressing and so-called non-resto cleaning must have really helped this book here since there were 3 notes on stains when it was a 5.5 copy and then no notes on any stains for the 7.5 copy.  

I did checked the CGC database and was a bit surprised that the new grades were not in there yet, but that was most likely due to the fact that the books were graded on February 14th and missed the update for last week.  So, the update coming out at the end of today should have the new grades in there and in theory the removal of the old grades if they do the old label deletions at the same time.  

So, I guess we might have some clue later on tonight if this is indeed the same book or if there's possibly more than one Crowley copy which is always a possibilty when it comes to some of these pedigrees.     

[Professor K]

Good eye up there. It is the same book. There is writing on the letter O in the same exact spot. Top edge is the same. Little black dot under the R same spot. 

Thanks to Heritage for keeping archives and allowing us to zoom right in on the books. That white chip or scuff is not in the holder.

Right where the chip is on the 5.5 there is supposed to be some red over the black, 2 spikes of red stand out clearly. They are gone in the 5.5 holder but like you're pics show they're back on the 7.5. One possibility is that the white chipping on the 5.5 was not chipping but some kind of matter that was removed, but I don't think so. I would think it would be the " top front cover chip out" in the old notes. I don't know.

 

 

 

[mjoeyoung]

On 2/21/2023 at 9:29 AM, Professor K said:

Right where the chip is on the 5.5 there is supposed to be some red over the black, 2 spikes of red stand out clearly. They are gone in the 5.5 holder but like you're pics show they're back on the 7.5. One possibility is that the white chipping on the 5.5 was not chipping but some kind of matter that was removed, but I don't think so. I would think it would be the " top front cover chip out" in the old notes. I don't know.

I think they are the same book, but I don't think they there were ever any "chips" out of this cover.  To me, both of the "chips" look like paper from another object that had been on top of the book and in some way stuck to the cover when the other object was removed.  The bottom "chip" to the right of the urn looks similar to the kind of residue you see on a sticker or label removal.  Maybe somebody was reading this comic at breakfast and got some maple syrup on their fat fingers.