MCU's THE ETERNALS (11/6/20) 8 8

[Jaydogrules]

On 11/29/2021 at 3:48 PM, drotto said:

Not every movie has lost money.  Godzilla vs. Kong, F9, Venom, and soon GB have all made money.  What do they all have in common, lower budgets.

Honestly, yes the movie industry is currently spending money at a rate that is not sustainable given the box office returns we can expect to see over the next few years.

 

I mean you're not wrong but is it all really about just the budgets or maybe people just aren't really that in to phase 4?

Like, at all.  

-J.

[Finhead]

On 11/29/2021 at 4:56 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Shang Chi had a reported budget of $150 million. Godzilla v Kong had a budget of $160 million. Both made about the same worldwide but GvK got to screen in China where it made $190 million. Shang-Chi was obviously designed not only for the American market, but especially for the China market but the Chinese government unexpectedly prevented the movie from screening there, severely taking away a market it was, in part, made for. That's kind of hard to predict that a country that loves a certain product would suddenly shut its doors to that product.

Which matters ZERO, still lost money to the investors and company. All of the Phase Bore movies have/will up till Sony saves there bacon with SM. Although they make almost nothing off that other than merch.

[Bosco685]

Phase IV thus far...

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 11/29/2021 at 8:13 PM, Jaydogrules said:

...maybe people just aren't really that in to phase 4?

Phase Bore, my guy.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 11/30/2021 at 12:39 AM, Finhead said:

Which matters ZERO, still lost money to the investors and company. All of the Phase Bore movies have/will up till Sony saves there bacon with SM. Although they make almost nothing off that other than merch.

I believe EVERY Hollywood movie lost money during the pandemic, maybe with the exception of F9 as it got a China pass and made over $200 million there. Also, Marvel Studios is 100% responsible for Spiderman No Way Home. Sony is just distributing the thing. They're like the luckiest studio in the world. Marvel Studios does all the creative leg work and Sony gets half of the profits or whatever the deal is.

[paperheart]

On 11/30/2021 at 6:27 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

I believe EVERY Hollywood movie lost money during the pandemic, maybe with the exception of F9 as it got a China pass and made over $200 million there. Also, Marvel Studios is 100% responsible for Spiderman No Way Home. Sony is just distributing the thing. They're like the luckiest studio in the world. Marvel Studios does all the creative leg work and Sony gets half of the profits or whatever the deal is.

AQP2 & Venom 2; must've gone to the non-profit University of Atlantis for your CFA

[drotto]

On 11/30/2021 at 9:31 AM, paperheart said:

AQP2 & Venom 2; must've gone to the non-profit University of Atlantis for your CFA

I still thinks it's funny that he thinks companies are not going to adjust their strategies and spending going forward. 

 

According to silvermane, Disney will continue making stuff that loses money, because the MCU is flawless. We pleebes just have not figured out the grand design yet, and eventually audiences will come around and realize they should just shovel money at Disney. They are so powerful and all knowing the movie public will bend to their will.

[Bosco685]

On 11/30/2021 at 9:27 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

I believe EVERY Hollywood movie lost money during the pandemic, maybe with the exception of F9 as it got a China pass and made over $200 million there. Also, Marvel Studios is 100% responsible for Spiderman No Way Home. Sony is just distributing the thing. They're like the luckiest studio in the world. Marvel Studios does all the creative leg work and Sony gets half of the profits or whatever the deal is.

Junior Hollywood Accounting badge needs to be recertified

Like was noted, Venom 2 and A Quiet Place 2 are over 4.0X production budget. But those are just facts. 

[drotto]

On 11/30/2021 at 9:55 AM, Bosco685 said:

Junior Hollywood Accounting badge needs to be recertified

Like was noted, Venom 2 and A Quiet Place 2 are over 4.0X production budget. But those are just facts. 

This is more a question, to see if we are on the same page. Most movies need around 2.5 to 3 times production  budget, before we a sure they are making money?

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 11/30/2021 at 9:52 AM, drotto said:

I still thinks it's funny that he thinks companies are not going to adjust their strategies and spending going forward. 

 

According to silvermane, Disney will continue making stuff that loses money, because the MCU is flawless. We pleebes just have not figured out the grand design yet, and eventually audiences will come around and realize they should just shovel money at Disney. They are so powerful and all knowing the movie public will bend to their will.

Plebs, my guy. Peons, if you will.

[Bosco685]

On 11/30/2021 at 10:10 AM, drotto said:

This is more a question, to see if we are on the same page. Most movies need around 2.5 to 3 times production  budget, before we a sure they are making money?

That's why Captain America: The First Avenger at 2.6X about broke even and Incredible Hulk at 1.8X was a bust.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 11/30/2021 at 9:55 AM, Bosco685 said:

Junior Hollywood Accounting badge needs to be recertified

Like was noted, Venom 2 and A Quiet Place 2 are over 4.0X production budget. But those are just facts. 

Must be the same guy on Reddit telling me that MoS didn't make money. It made so little money, in fact, that Shazam was more profitable. MoS getting its production budget almost paid in full by sponsorships doesn't matter, again, according to this genius accountant on Reddit.

[drotto]

On 11/30/2021 at 10:14 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Plebs, my guy. Peons, if you will.

Sorry, bad spell correct, but you got my point.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 11/30/2021 at 9:52 AM, drotto said:

I still thinks it's funny that he thinks companies are not going to adjust their strategies and spending going forward. 

 

According to silvermane, Disney will continue making stuff that loses money, because the MCU is flawless. We pleebes just have not figured out the grand design yet, and eventually audiences will come around and realize they should just shovel money at Disney. They are so powerful and all knowing the movie public will bend to their will.

Yes! (sarcastically) The only movie franchises that deserve to exist after the economy crushing global pandemic are Fast and the Furious, Venom, and A Quiet Place because they may have managed to be slightly profitable after everybody's been paid. Let's just have more of those movies and sh*tcan the rest! Bring on F10! Let's take down the MCU, the franchise responsible for making our beloved hobby the top thing in pop culture and quadrupling the value of our collections, because it didn't make enough money during a global pandemic or failed to appease the Chinese government censors while making a really good movie that finally features an Asian super-hero.

Excelsior! Or not...

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 11/30/2021 at 10:20 AM, drotto said:

Sorry, bad spell correct, but you got my point.

Don't do it again.

[Bosco685]

On 11/30/2021 at 10:16 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Must be the same guy on Reddit telling me that MoS didn't make money. It made so little money, in fact, that Shazam was more profitable. MoS getting its production budget almost paid in full by sponsorships doesn't matter, again, according to this genius accountant on Reddit.

Right? $170M in product placement revenue. Not even sponsorship.

I posted an article in this thread about the history of product placement revenue with Hollywood movies. Back in the day when Gatsby assumed it was just products being placed on movie sets for free - not actual money.

 

[Bosco685]

On 11/30/2021 at 10:21 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

Yes! (sarcastically) The only movie franchises that deserve to exist after the economy crushing global pandemic are Fast and the Furious, Venom, and A Quiet Place because they may have managed to be slightly profitable after everybody's been paid. Let's just have more of those movies and sh*tcan the rest! Bring on F10! Let's take down the MCU, the franchise responsible for making our beloved hobby the top thing in pop culture and quadrupling the value of our collections, because it didn't make enough money during a global pandemic or failed to appease the Chinese government censors while making a really good movie that finally features an Asian super-hero.

Excelsior! Or not...

Here we go...

Wait until he pulls out the "...and the marketing budget was $300M for each of those films so no way are they truly profitable..."

[drotto]

On 11/30/2021 at 10:21 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

Yes! (sarcastically) The only movie franchises that deserve to exist after the economy crushing global pandemic are Fast and the Furious, Venom, and A Quiet Place because they may have managed to be slightly profitable after everybody's been paid. Let's just have more of those movies and sh*tcan the rest! Bring on F10! Let's take down the MCU, the franchise responsible for making our beloved hobby the top thing in pop culture and quadrupling the value of our collections, because it didn't make enough money during a global pandemic or failed to appease the Chinese government censors while making a really good movie that finally features an Asian super-hero.

Excelsior! Or not...

This is not about taking down the MCU.  I love 80% of the MCU. It is about economic reality.  Not saying the MCU is going away, but they may need to re-evaluate what characters they are using, and may need to looks at what stories they are telling to increase audience appeal and therefor revenue.   They may also need to start making (even temporarily) smaller films with budgets closer to $100 million, then build back up to the massive tent pole films. The core audience is there, but they need to keep appealing to a broader audience,  and except that in today's current climate things may need to be done differently then they currently are.

 

It is all about making money at the corporate level.  How is that so hard to understand? There are many great films that never got sequels, because they did not make enough money.  Just as we are subjected to countless FF, Pirates of the Caribbean, or Transformer movies, not because they are any good (in my oppinion), but they always make money. 

 

Unfortunately,  money usually talks not quality.  We are blessed when the two come together like they have for a good portion of the MCU.  If that stops happening, eventually things will change, out of necessity. 

Edited November 30, 2021 by drotto

[@therealsilvermane]

On 11/30/2021 at 10:42 AM, drotto said:

This is not about taking down the MCU.  I love 80% of the MCU. It is about economic reality.  Not saying the MCU is going away, but they may need to re-evaluate what characters they are using, and may need to looks at what stories they are telling to increase audience appeal and therefor revenue.   They may also need to start making (even temporarily) smaller films with budgets closer to $100 million, then build there way back up to the massive tent pole films. The core audience is there, but they need to keep appealing to a broader audience,  and except in today's current climate things may need to be done differently then they currently are.

 

It is all about making money at the corporate level.  How is that so hard to understand? There are many great films that never got sequels, because they did not make enough money.  Just as we are subjected to countless FF, Pirates of the Caribbean, or Transformer movies, not because they are any good (in my oppinion), but they always make money. 

 

Unfortunately,  money usually talks not quality.  We are blessed when the two come together like they have for a good portion of the MCU so far.  If that stop happening, eventually things will change.

Appealing to the lowest common denominator (which is kind of what comic book action movies do anyway) is also a creative dead end. If Disney were only about money, I'd think they'd have sold everything and just gone into finance. But no, they're an entertainment company and a spearhead of American popular culture. If the MCU just keeps making nothing but Spider-Man movies or reboots Iron Man, what good is that to the world or to them? I love that the MCU is trying out new things with Shang-Chi or Eternals. THAT'S how you grow your audience and thus revenue. At least they're trying and not just spinning their wheels by rebooting Iron Man. Speaking of revenue, it's not just about box office, particularly when it comes to the MCU. It's also about the merchandise, growing the brand, discovering and appealing to new demographics, creating new characters for Disneyland and Disney World, more content for Disney+, etc. 

It's not just about how much money gets put in the corporate pocket today, but the investment for the future. Sure, the Black Panther movie itself was profitable to the tune of a few hundred million dollars, but the investment really pays off when you consider the fan base that was created who buy the shirts and the merch and who are clamoring for a Wakanda land be built at Disney's Animal Kingdom or some other Disney park. Similarly with Shang Chi, you may not have liked the movie, but the Asian-American community loved the movie and now have a character they can call their own, who will eventually buy the shirts and the merch and want to see the character at Disneyland, especially after Shang-Chi shows up again as an official Avenger in the future and is on screen fighting alongside Captain Marvel and Spider-Man.

[drotto]

On 11/30/2021 at 11:08 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

Appealing to the lowest common denominator (which is kind of what comic book action movies do anyway) is also a creative dead end. If Disney were only about money, I'd think they'd have sold everything and just gone into finance. But no, they're an entertainment company and a spearhead of American popular culture. If the MCU just keeps making nothing but Spider-Man movies or reboots Iron Man, what good is that to the world or to them? I love that the MCU is trying out new things with Shang-Chi or Eternals. THAT'S how you grow your audience and thus revenue. At least they're trying and not just spinning their wheels by rebooting Iron Man. Speaking of revenue, it's not just about box office, particularly when it comes to the MCU. It's also about the merchandise, growing the brand, discovering and appealing to new demographics, creating new characters for Disneyland and Disney World, more content for Disney+, etc. 

It's not just about how much money gets put in the corporate pocket today, but the investment for the future. Sure, the Black Panther movie itself was profitable to the tune of a few hundred million dollars, but the investment really pays off when you consider the fan base that was created who buy the shirts and the merch and who are clamoring for a Wakanda land be built at Disney's Animal Kingdom or some other Disney park. Similarly with Shang Chi, you may not have liked the movie, but the Asian-American community loved the movie and now have a character they can call their own, who will eventually buy the shirts and the merch and want to see the character at Disneyland, especially after Shang-Chi shows up again as an official Avenger in the future and is on screen fighting alongside Captain Marvel and Spider-Man.

Keep telling yourself all this.  If the profit margins do not recover in the next 1 to 2 years, and the viewership keeps falling on new series, Disney will change course. The Hawkeye series has the lowest viewership yet for the MCU on D+, and that is with a recognised character.  I do not see improved viewership when they start rolling out the new characters, unless the shows bring use something groundbreaking.

 

Why do you think Disney is this altruistic, super moral, and above reproach company? All companies are here to make money.  Why do they not just go into finance?  What a stupid statement, they are in the entertainment industry, because the world offers many ways to make money.  The creatives work for Disney to be creative, tell stories, and make their art.  This is true. Disney gives them this opportunity,  because it makes them money.  If the creative teams stop making money, they will find new creative teams.

 

And again with the Asian community has embraced Shang-Chi.  They have not.   It was not shown in China, and was not a hit in Japan or Korea. They did not show a dramatic demographic shift in who viewed the film.  You do not see 1000's of Asia children wearing Shang-Chi shirts.  With Blank Panther you saw a massive African American turn out for the film where they were far over represented as a pupulation demographic group seeing the movie. As well as BP viewer demographics being very different from typical MCU films. The numbers prove the black community showed up to see the movie. Outside the MCU look at Encanto.  That movie was embraced by the Latino community.  How do we know? 53% of the viewership this past weekend was Latino!! Those number do not exist for Shang-Chi.