MCU's THE ETERNALS (11/6/20) 8 8

[Bosco685]

Overall 2021 Top 20 including the 99.9% to 100% mainland releases

[Bosco685]

Back on track now...

 

[paperheart]

On 11/20/2021 at 7:22 AM, Bosco685 said:

Back on track now...

 

absolutely awful; near zero chance it catches F9 in US at this rate - the CinemaScore has spoken. On similar earthward plummeting trajectory as Thor:DW; final US guess (fittingly) $166.6M

Edited November 20, 2021 by paperheart

[@therealsilvermane]

On 11/20/2021 at 1:47 AM, ▫️ said:

Have you met you?

Personally, I'm ready to move off this topic and get back to posting about how great an MCU experience Eternals was, but...

When I said sticking to one's guns...I meant sticking to one's guns by completely dismissing the criteria of my argument. For instance, if I said the largest tree in the world is a sequoia tree, someone might say the largest tree is actually a redwood tree because it's the tallest. Then I come back with the criteria I used for largest tree isn't just height, but also average mass, girth, and weight. And using those criteria, the sequoia tree is actually the largest tree, even though the redwood tree is undeniably taller. And then the other party comes back again saying I'm wrong because the redwood tree is the largest due to its height. I acknowledge that the redwood tree is tallest, but again I repeat I'm not just using height as my criteria, but mass, girth, weight, etc. which is why I say the sequoia tree is the largest tree. Then the other party comes back and says I'm blind and a fanatic because I can't see that the redwood tree is the largest tree because of its height. And so and so on. 

And this is what I mean by sticking to one's guns.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 11/20/2021 at 10:47 AM, paperheart said:

absolutely awful; near zero chance it catches F9 in US at this rate - the CinemaScore has spoken. On similar earthward plummeting trajectory as Thor:DW; final US guess (fittingly) $166.6M

Well after I watch Eternals 140 times starting this weekend that should put it over the top because that's what us diehard MCU fans do, spend our entire waking moments, days off, and work breaks going to the movies to artificially inflate MCU numbers. ***sarcasm***

[Bosco685]

On 11/20/2021 at 12:08 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Well after I watch Eternals 140 times starting this weekend that should put it over the top because that's what us diehard MCU fans do, spend our entire waking moments, days off, and work breaks going to the movies to artificially inflate MCU numbers. ***sarcasm***

 

[▫️]

On 11/20/2021 at 8:03 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Personally, I'm ready to move off this topic and get back to posting about how great an MCU experience Eternals was, but...

When I said sticking to one's guns...I meant sticking to one's guns by completely dismissing the criteria of my argument. For instance, if I said the largest tree in the world is a sequoia tree, someone might say the largest tree is actually a redwood tree because it's the tallest. Then I come back with the criteria I used for largest tree isn't just height, but also average mass, girth, and weight. And using those criteria, the sequoia tree is actually the largest tree, even though the redwood tree is undeniably taller. And then the other party comes back again saying I'm wrong because the redwood tree is the largest due to its height. I acknowledge that the redwood tree is tallest, but again I repeat I'm not just using height as my criteria, but mass, girth, weight, etc. which is why I say the sequoia tree is the largest tree. Then the other party comes back and says I'm blind and a fanatic because I can't see that the redwood tree is the largest tree because of its height. And so and so on. 

And this is what I mean by sticking to one's guns.

Bad comparison since your tree analogy is quantifiable. Several of us had asked you how Shang Chi moved the needle on pop culture as you put it. I believe it had no effect as of now. People are not quoting the movie at work in mass or wearing the costume last Halloween. There was nothing artistic about it that hasn’t been done ad nauseam in many martial arts movies before it. Maybe a killer sequel could make Shang Chi a pop culture phenomenon. But as of this first movie, no. You also said this film affected/changed the industry. I said the industry is dollar driven so while the film did very well domestically, what sets it apart from all the other films that did well domestically? What sets it apart from the films that exceeded Shang Chi’s box office total? When I say box office total, I mean the TOTAL earnings the film has brought in to date. How did it affect the industry? I’m always willing to change my mind so give me a concise quantifiable answer thats not subjective. 

[Bosco685]

Dance song is coming...with fresh disclaimers

[paperheart]

The Eternals has passed an MCU movie at the US BO (Incredible Hulk); this will be the first and the last

[Pitboss]

Someone should start a financial thread about movies and stick to the movies themselves in their own threads. 

[Cat]

On 11/21/2021 at 3:08 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

Well after I watch Eternals 140 times starting this weekend that should put it over the top because that's what us diehard MCU fans do, spend our entire waking moments, days off, and work breaks going to the movies to artificially inflate MCU numbers. ***sarcasm***

Why do you act like you're the only MCU fan here? 

[@therealsilvermane]

On 11/21/2021 at 5:43 AM, Mecha_Fantastic said:

Why do you act like you're the only MCU fan here? 

Eh? How do I act like I'm the only MCU fan here? Am I the only MCU fan here? Oh, I guess if you're referring to my above post, I wasn't actually asserting that all MCU fans see a movie 140 times fluff up box office. That was just a sarcastic response to paperheart's negativity about the Eternals box office going forward though I was mostly making fun of Bosco's regular accusation that diehard MCU fans all go see MCU movies dozens of times to make the MCU look good at the box office which is ridiculous. He posts that Captain Marvel 140 times meme regularly but actually seems to take it seriously as if all MCU fans do that. If I go see a MCU movie multiple times (I'm not sure if I saw CM or Endgame more, about 7 times at the theater give or take a viewing) it's because the MCU makes such stellar and fun superhero movies one after another, not because it's a job. Although I wish it was a job. 

[Bosco685]

Estimates were $11-16M domestic

 

[Bosco685]

 

[paperheart]

On 11/21/2021 at 9:18 AM, Bosco685 said:

 

even int'l wasn't good this weekend; no legs whatsoever

[Gatsby77]

On 11/21/2021 at 10:36 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

Eh? How do I act like I'm the only MCU fan here? Am I the only MCU fan here? Oh, I guess if you're referring to my above post, I wasn't actually asserting that all MCU fans see a movie 140 times fluff up box office. That was just a sarcastic response to paperheart's negativity about the Eternals box office going forward though I was mostly making fun of Bosco's regular accusation that diehard MCU fans all go see MCU movies dozens of times to make the MCU look good at the box office which is ridiculous. He posts that Captain Marvel 140 times meme regularly but actually seems to take it seriously as if all MCU fans do that. If I go see a MCU movie multiple times (I'm not sure if I saw CM or Endgame more, about 7 times at the theater give or take a viewing) it's because the MCU makes such stellar and fun superhero movies one after another, not because it's a job. Although I wish it was a job. 

But...they haven't.

Eternals, Shang-Chi and Black Widow have all been aggressively mediocre - and the issue is they didn't need to be - these were unforced errors.

We deserved better.

It's one thing to incessantly sing the praises of amazing superhero films (Winter Soldier, Endgame, Wonder Woman, The Dark Knight), but to relentlessly defend films that objectively aren't good (judged by critical, fan and - importantly, box office) success - is just...dumb.

On the other hand, I'm glad you're here - because Bosco has accused me of being a similar diehard Disney fan, to the exclusion of all else.

I'm not - I think he's just sore that I've aggressively called out that execrable garbage that DC produced by way of BvS, Suicide Squad and Justice League. 

To be fair, he's all but admitted the theatrical versions of each of those were , given how he's now moved on to defending the Directors cuts/Snyder Cut versions and/or posted innumerable articles about studio interference with those films. Whatever the reason, it doesn't change the fact the theatrical versions were really bad.

Overall, though? We're all superhero fans.

And we're living in a golden age of cinema,  where even the B- and C-list comic characters of the '70s and '80s are now getting $100M+ projects.

That doesn't mean we can't demand excellence in those products.

I'd rather not see a superhero film done at all than see one that's so poorly done that it's an affront to the characters and the original storylines (cough! Dark Phoenix).

I'm terrified that the forthcoming Moon Knight project is going to suck. He's an amazing character, but one that's difficult to properly do justice, even in the comics. I'm hoping that we get something that's closer to Daredevil or Jessica Jones than to Iron Fist.

 

...You're absolutely entitled to your opinion re. the latest MCU films (as are well all). But man...claiming mess like "Shang-Chi saved theaters" isn't just laughably (and provably) wrong, but it helps undermine even your good well-reasoned points.

 

[Bosco685]

On 11/21/2021 at 1:01 PM, Gatsby77 said:

On the other hand, I'm glad you're here - because Bosco has accused me of being a similar diehard Disney fan, to the exclusion of all else.

I'm not - I think he's just sore that I've aggressively called out that execrable garbage that DC produced by way of BvS, Suicide Squad and Justice League. 

To be fair, he's all but admitted the theatrical versions of each of those were , given how he's now moved on to defending the Directors cuts/Snyder Cut versions and/or posted innumerable articles about studio interference with those films. Whatever the reason, it doesn't change the fact the theatrical versions were really bad.

You mean when you bashed on the films and proclaimed they had no market - then actually were profitable and/or dominant in their markets? I know. Crazy. BVS making a minimum of $105M profit. Wonder Woman (2017), Aquaman, Venom, Joker, Venom 2. Seems like a pattern.

'Moved on' is not being like you. Complaining on and on how these movies didn't make a billion across the board.

Hey - The Flash was supposed to play in 2016!

[Finhead]

On 11/21/2021 at 11:01 AM, Gatsby77 said:

I'm terrified that the forthcoming Moon Knight project is going to suck. He's an amazing character, but one that's difficult to properly do justice, even in the comics. I'm hoping that we get something that's closer to Daredevil or Jessica Jones than to Iron Fist.

 

Sorry to detract from the topic but this is more interesting.

I honestly think there is 0% chance that a show on D+ is going to be anywhere near what DD was. Your more likely to get a even more watered down IF, guess we will see soon enough though.

[Gatsby77]

On 11/21/2021 at 1:11 PM, Bosco685 said:

You mean when you bashed on the films and proclaimed they had no market - then actually were profitable and/or dominant in their markets? I know. Crazy. BVS making a minimum of $105M profit. Wonder Woman (2017), Aquaman, Venom, Joker, Venom 2. Seems like a pattern.

'Moved on' is not being like you. Complaining on and on how these movies didn't make a billion across the board.

Hey - The Flash was supposed to play in 2016!

?

Pretty sure I've never bashed Wonder Woman, given that it's among my top 5 superhero films.

Ditto Aquaman - it was a far better film - and treatment of the character - than I think nearly anyone expected.

But absolutely - BvS (theatrical) was garbage.

And the market bore that out:

• A record 69+% drop-off from first to second weekend (indicates negative word-of-mouth).
• Legs so bad its final domestic total was less than 2x its opening weekend alone.
• B Cinemascore.

If it were good, or (ahem!) liked by American audiences, it would have held better. Full stop.

It wasn't, so it didn't.

Oh - and the 29% positive critical score?

Certainly didn't help.

But...as many have posited here, critics are corrupt (blah blah blah) - it's that the negative audience response - and record drop-off after opening weekend, that spoke far more clearly about how badly the film sucked than anything the critics said.

 

[Bosco685]

On 11/21/2021 at 1:54 PM, Gatsby77 said:

?

Pretty sure I've never bashed Wonder Woman, given that it's among my top 5 superhero films.

Ditto Aquaman - it was a far better film - and treatment of the character - than I think nearly anyone expected.

But absolutely - BvS (theatrical) was garbage.

And the market bore that out:

• A record 69+% drop-off from first to second weekend (indicates negative word-of-mouth).
• Legs so bad its final domestic total was less than 2x its opening weekend alone.
• B Cinemascore.

If it were good, or (ahem!) liked by American audiences, it would have held better. Full stop.

It wasn't, so it didn't.

Oh - and the 29% positive critical score?

Certainly didn't help.

But...as many have posited here, critics are corrupt (blah blah blah) - it's that the negative audience response - and record drop-off after opening weekend, that spoke far more clearly about how badly the film sucked than anything the critics said.

 

Uh-huh. Meanwhile, best prediction you ever made - with confidence! Including even before that how incels and juggalos were the audience focus. 

On 9/29/2019 at 9:53 AM, Gatsby77 said:

I'm actually with @Jaydogrules on this re. its limited audience appeal and box office potential.

This one seems "made for the fans" in a way that won't translate to general public beyond its first two weekends -- it's basically an art-house film.

And that's great -- we need more of those -- great comic book movies well-told. Not every superhero (let alone comic book movie) needs to be a blockbuster.

So...even if it somehow does open in the $90-$100 million range (which would be *phenomenal* for a film that looks as character-driven & bleak as this) I see a domestic box office cap of $230-$240 million (ahem! "Doctor Strange numbers").

Won't matter, because I think it looks *amazing* and apparently was made for less than $60 million.

But the domestic audience for this is going to be far more narrow than many on this board seem to think.