MCU's Phase 5 rumors 1 1

[@therealsilvermane]

On 4/18/2023 at 9:25 AM, drotto said:

Think they also should start viewing these as stand alone movies again.  Right now every film feels like the bridge to the next film and not it's own thing. That is hurting these movies.  If a fan misses a film, or does not like a film, or is not interested in one, it give them a jumping off point.  Once the habit is broken it is easier not to come back.  

 

This also ties into the mistake of making the D+ shows required viewing.  Just not enough people are watching these, again providing a jumping off point.  So now going back to watch for a film, feels like homework. The Marvels is really going to put this to the test with 2 of the 3 main characters getting their start in streaming.

I’d say required viewing of past movies was more a thing of the first Avengers movie, and most of Phases 2 & 3. The only Phase Four films that had required viewing of other heroes’ stories to understand the main story was Black Widow and Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness. Shang-Chi and Eternals were stand alone films that had little to do with the rest of the MCU. No Way Home and  Wakanda Forever were direct sequels. Thor Love and Thunder did pick up from Endgame, but once Thor left the Guardians, the rest of the movie was a direct sequel to Ragnarok. For QuAntuMania, to get Kang’s story, you didn’t need to have seen Loki at all. As far as the Disney+ series, The first four series WandaVision FWS Loki and Hawkeye picked up from the events of Endgame, but the last three series Moon Knight, Ms Marvel and She-Hulk had little to do with what happened before. In fact, one of the criticisms thrown at Phase Four was an apparent lack of cohesion among the stories or any kind of lead-up to a Phase Four Avengers movie. Maybe there needs to be more tying in of stories as the two most successful Phase Four films, No Way Home and MoM, were major team-up stories. 

[Dr. Balls]

On 4/18/2023 at 2:17 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Maybe there needs to be more tying in of stories as the two most successful Phase Four films, No Way Home and MoM, were major team-up stories. 

I'm no expert, but over the years I always used to say that Vince McMahon of WWF/WWE made a TON of money from several good ideas, and spent TWO THIRDS OF A TON of that money covering up bad mistakes and poor judgment calls - but it still left him with enough money to keep the company on the rails.

It very well could be that Marvel had a stellar 10 year run that culminated in something superbly amazing - and that's it. That was the lightning in a bottle, they captured it, profiteered from it and build up enough revenue to pay for the mistakes they continue to make and have a little left over to keep the brand chugging along. Just because you did something great once doesn't mean that every thing you will do will be great, or that you are even cognizant of how you attained that greatness. 

I love comic movies, if they suck - they suck. If they're entertaining - that's great. I'm happy, but I am also under no illusions that these companies - adding creators, producers, czars or whatever you want to call them - can rekindle what they had. Businesses - large or small - do not produce better quality products the more people they have sticking their fingers in the pie. 

[drotto]

On 4/18/2023 at 10:17 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

I’d say required viewing of past movies was more a thing of the first Avengers movie, and most of Phases 2 & 3. The only Phase Four films that had required viewing of other heroes’ stories to understand the main story was Black Widow and Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness. Shang-Chi and Eternals were stand alone films that had little to do with the rest of the MCU. No Way Home and  Wakanda Forever were direct sequels. Thor Love and Thunder did pick up from Endgame, but once Thor left the Guardians, the rest of the movie was a direct sequel to Ragnarok. For QuAntuMania, to get Kang’s story, you didn’t need to have seen Loki at all. As far as the Disney+ series, The first four series WandaVision FWS Loki and Hawkeye picked up from the events of Endgame, but the last three series Moon Knight, Ms Marvel and She-Hulk had little to do with what happened before. In fact, one of the criticisms thrown at Phase Four was an apparent lack of cohesion among the stories or any kind of lead-up to a Phase Four Avengers movie. Maybe there needs to be more tying in of stories as the two most successful Phase Four films, No Way Home and MoM, were major team-up stories. 

Shang Chi and Eternals were independent, but everything else was tied in somehow.  Now you are going to have the Marvels which requires you have watched two streaming shows.  One of which was the lowest viewed MCU show.  How is this a good stratagy?

[TupennyConan]

The relevant Marvels questions:

1. Will it be entertaining?

2. Will Brie Larson be entertaining?

3. Will it be profitable?

4. Will it right the MCU ship?

5. Will it demonstrate diversity?

6. Will it mistreat the male heroes?

7. Will it expand the MCU fan demographic?

8. Will it mistreat the traditional MCU fan demographic?

9. Will it help or harm comics values?

10. Crack.   

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 4/19/2023 at 6:38 AM, TupennyConan said:

The relevant Marvels questions:

1. Will it be entertaining?

2. Will Brie Larson be entertaining?

3. Will it be profitable?

4. Will it right the MCU ship?

5. Will it demonstrate diversity?

6. Will it mistreat the male heroes?

7. Will it expand the MCU fan demographic?

8. Will it mistreat the traditional MCU fan demographic?

9. Will it help or harm comics values?

10. Crack.   

Crack changes everything, making the list of questions unfair.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 4/19/2023 at 6:32 AM, drotto said:

Shang Chi and Eternals were independent, but everything else was tied in somehow.  Now you are going to have the Marvels which requires you have watched two streaming shows.  One of which was the lowest viewed MCU show.  How is this a good stratagy?

Because Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness, which tied in the most with a Disney+ series, WandaVision, has been the most successful Phase Four film, financially speaking, outside of No Way Home. Successfully bringing together heroes from different movies/shows is what Marvel does and does well. It's their thing. Outside of certain circles of fandom, MCU fans are really excited to see Captain Marvel team up with Ms Marvel and Monica Rambeau. Captain America New World Order is now rumored to be a mini Avengers film like Civil War. Polling says fans like that kind of stuff. And you actually don't need to do that much homework. Probably to get The Marvels, you just need to have seen the end credits of Ms Marvel which is probably going to be in The Marvels film anyway since that scene was in the trailer.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 4/19/2023 at 6:38 AM, TupennyConan said:

The relevant Marvels questions:

1. Will it be entertaining?

2. Will Brie Larson be entertaining?

3. Will it be profitable?

4. Will it right the MCU ship?

5. Will it demonstrate diversity?

6. Will it mistreat the male heroes?

7. Will it expand the MCU fan demographic?

8. Will it mistreat the traditional MCU fan demographic?

9. Will it help or harm comics values?

10. Crack.   

My prediction

1. yes 

2. yes

3. yes

4. That ship will have already been "righted" (if it needs righting) by GOTGV3, Secret Invasion, and Loki 2.

5. of course

6. no

7. yes

8. you get out of it what you put into it

9. help

10. crack is whack

[@therealsilvermane]

On 4/18/2023 at 10:41 PM, Dr. Balls said:

It very well could be that Marvel had a stellar 10 year run that culminated in something superbly amazing - and that's it. That was the lightning in a bottle, they captured it, profiteered from it and build up enough revenue to pay for the mistakes they continue to make and have a little left over to keep the brand chugging along. Just because you did something great once doesn't mean that every thing you will do will be great, or that you are even cognizant of how you attained that greatness. 

I actually prefer some of the Phase Four stories over previous Phases, particularly the Disney+ shows. As intended, the shows are better able to explore the small stuff and the inner worlds of these characters, which for me, makes for better storytelling.

Besides the lack of a lead-up to a finale Avengers movie, it seems to me that one big difference between the Phase Four films and previous movies is I see the Phase Four films as being much more complex stories, whereas the films of previous Phases were kind of dumbed down a little, particularly when it comes to the villain. Previous villains were pretty melodramatic in their nature, they were truly bad, which in turn made the heroism of our heroes stand out that much more. In Phase Four, the villains have been much more complex individuals, often-times anti-heroes. In Shang Chi, the villains is Shang's father. In Eternals, the villain is Ikarus, a fellow Eternal. In No Way Home, the villain is a tortured Norman Osborn who Peter saves in the end. In Multiverse of Madness, the villain is Wanda. In Wakanda Forever, the villain is Prince Namor, who is just trying to do right by his people. In these stories, there is no clear delineation of good vs evil. Maybe that makes for a less comic booky story?

IMO, Multiverse of Madness is a much more clever smarter film than Doctor Strange. I always thought for such an apparently intelligent character, the Doctor Strange movie's story seemed a little simple. The plot elements in Multiverse of Madness were much more complex. Maybe some audiences just prefer the simple good vs evil comic booky story.

[Dr. Balls]

On 4/19/2023 at 6:12 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

I actually prefer some of the Phase Four stories over previous Phases, particularly the Disney+ shows. As intended, the shows are better able to explore the small stuff and the inner worlds of these characters, which for me, makes for better storytelling.

I'm on board with this description. I don't think I have any distaste for anything in Phase 4, and I feel they did something different which led to some interesting stories. I have no bones about Phase 4, really - I cherish the first 10 years of Marvel and am on board for the next 10 even if they don't have the same scope and premise as the former.

[theCapraAegagrus]

The D+ shows could have been good if they, y'know, actually did explore anything meaningful. They all went the same way as the movies, with the exception of Loki. It was simply bad storytelling, despite using a better medium for story.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 4/19/2023 at 11:47 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

The D+ shows could have been good if they, y'know, actually did explore anything meaningful. They all went the same way as the movies, with the exception of Loki. It was simply bad storytelling, despite using a better medium for story.

I would say taking time to explore the dynamic of Kamala's relationship with her family in Ms. Marvel was meaningful. I would say exploring the idea that Wanda's life is so tragic that she transforms her life into family sitcoms for six or seven episodes in WandaVision is meaningful. I would say watching Sam Wilson grapple with the idea that he's not good enough to be Captain America, while trying to be both a hero for the world and his family back in Louisiana in FWS is meaningful. Seeing Clint Barton finally get to be in the spotlight in Hawkeye maybe wasn't overly meaningful but it was entertaining (to me).

[Bosco685]

The MCU is ...

Just checking if ChatGPT kicks in.

[TupennyConan]

On 4/19/2023 at 11:30 AM, Dr. Balls said:

I'm on board with this description. I don't think I have any distaste for anything in Phase 4, and I feel they did something different which led to some interesting stories. I have no bones about Phase 4, really

Blocked.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 4/19/2023 at 1:02 PM, Bosco685 said:

The MCU is ... Just checking if ChatGPT kicks in.

How do you think they wrote She-Hulk?

[Bosco685]

On 4/19/2023 at 1:25 PM, theCapraAegagrus said:

How do you think they wrote She-Hulk?

We have our own. Not to worry.

[Bosco685]

Two threads locked that had some gold at certain points. Now gone forever.

[comicginger1789]

I frankly just have gotten bored. I stopped after Loki. I have not seen anything since. Just no desire....as least not for the MCU aspect. As for comics, colleting and reading and grading and all that, I am doing lots of that. But the desire to try to fit in 10+ hours of TV or a 2.5-3 hour long movie doesn't excite me. Plus the ideas I have seen have not excited me.

Oops I lied. I did watch the Halloween Special with Man-Thing. That I liked. More of that please.

[Bosco685]

 

[Axelrod]

On 4/20/2023 at 7:00 PM, Bosco685 said:

 

So, I assume they paid her basically not to talk **** about them.  

Guess they feel they don't need more bad press atm.

[drotto]

On 4/21/2023 at 1:00 AM, Bosco685 said:

 

Was there really any doubt this would happen.