MCU's Phase 5 rumors 1 1

[@therealsilvermane]

On 4/5/2023 at 12:25 PM, D2 said:

I love where you guys are going with that. The Age of Ultron wasn't an age at all.

The “Age” in Age of Ultron doesn’t refer to an era, but rather to Ultron’s actual age in days, hours, and nanoseconds. Ultron’s age is a theme in the film as its goal is to rebirth itself in the Vision. This theme is reiterated at the end when the last Ultron bot tells Viz “You’re unbelievably naive”, to which Viz responds with the clever backatcha line “I was born yesterday,” before disintegrating it and capping its “death age” at a few days.

Edited April 5, 2023 by @therealsilvermane

[Bosco685]

On 4/5/2023 at 1:50 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

The “Age” in Age of Ultron doesn’t refer to an era, but rather to Ultron’s actual age in days, hours, and nanoseconds. Ultron’s age is a theme in the film as its goal is to rebirth itself in the Vision. This theme is reiterated at the end when the last Ultron bot tells Viz “You’re unbelievably naive”, to which Viz responds with the clever backatcha line “I was born yesterday,” before disintegrating it and capping its “death age” at a few days.

If only the title development process had been that deeply reflected upon. It wasn't. I remember reading this and thinking, "That doesn't sound very well structured."

Exclusive: Marvel Chief Kevin Feige Talks Avengers: Age Of Ultron

Quote

At the bottom of this news story is the video interview in full, but here are a few choice titbits to whet your appetite, kicking off with the choice of the name The Avengers: Age Of Ultron.

 

EMPIRE: How long has this been in the works? The comic book run is only just wrapping up...

 

FEIGE: "It's not that [run's] story, but it's that title. It's been in the works for seven or eight months... There are some things in this movie, that you'll see in 2015, that arise directly from casual conversations Joss and I had on the set of the first one. 'Would it be cool if...?' 'That would be cool!'"

 

"We came up with a few titles, but every month a new comic book appeared, and that's a great title. Age Of Ultron is a great title. We had a few other 'Of Ultrons', but that was the best one. So we're borrowing that title, but taking storylines from decades of Avengers storylines."

 

[theCapraAegagrus]

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 4/5/2023 at 2:25 PM, Bosco685 said:

If only the title development process had been that deeply reflected upon. It wasn't. I remember reading this and thinking, "That doesn't sound very well structured."

Exclusive: Marvel Chief Kevin Feige Talks Avengers: Age Of Ultron

 

Age has now joined "fear" as a "theme".

[TupennyConan]

On 4/5/2023 at 2:30 PM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Age has now joined "fear" as a "theme".

"grief" 

[TupennyConan]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/disney-marvel-perlmutter-laid-off-fired-16821248

[@therealsilvermane]

On 4/5/2023 at 1:03 PM, drotto said:

As others have mentioned, thr MCU should have followed the more traditional comic model after a big event, GO SMALL. Go back to street level stuff, go back to smaller more personal stories.  This all came to a head with QM.  Ant-man solo is a small scale hero, so plugging him into a world ending event, did not fit the character.  This was compounded by the last 4  movies all being world ending events at some level.  

 

They kept trying to go bigger and bigger, but it was hard to be bigger than Thanos. So even with, it's the end of the world again, maybe!!  The audiences shrugged.  So if they had gone small and gotten people to invest in characters again, smaller casts, personal stories, when the world was going to end again, people would have cared.

 

They also need to get away from streaming shows being so integral.  These should be good side stories, but need to be written as skippable.  The way Secret Invasion is set up, this again going ro be an issue.  In addition, these shows have TINY audiences in comparison to the movies.

Ultimately, Marvel Studios needs to get good with the critics again, that is, making movies that they’ll give a thumbs up, because that Rotten Tomatoes score is everything now, I think. It’s what folks look at first to determine if it’s worth seeing. You can have the coolest trailer in the world, but if critics pan it, it’s over. I think Scorsese’s criticism of comic book movies kind of gave movie critics a hunting permit and now they smell blood in the water with comic book movies.  So it’s best if Marvel and DC don’t chum the waters with weak susceptible films. Don’t make world building the point. Do that in the credits like the old days. I think critics don’t care about world building. I know casual moviegoers could care less about it. Just make a good story with compelling character journeys that critics will review positively, and the rest will follow I think. And if there’s any doubt, don’t release it until there’s no doubt. 

Edited April 6, 2023 by @therealsilvermane

[Cat]

On 4/6/2023 at 11:24 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

Ultimately, Marvel Studios needs to get good with the critics again, that is, making movies that they’ll give a thumbs up, because that Rotten Tomatoes score is everything now, I think. It’s what folks look at first to determine if it’s worth seeing. You can have the coolest trailer in the world, but if critics pan it, it’s over. I think Scorsese’s criticism of comic book movies kind of gave movie critics a hunting permit and now they smell blood in the water with comic book movies.  So it’s best if Marvel and DC don’t chum the waters with weak susceptible films. Don’t make world building the point. Do that in the credits like the old days. I think critics don’t care about world building. I know casual moviegoers could care less about it. Just make a good story with compelling character journeys that critics will review positively, and the rest will follow I think. And if there’s any doubt, don’t release it until there’s no doubt. 

I don't believe Scorsese's words had that much impact. I think it's strictly about the quality of the films. They're bad, and that's what we're seeing reflected in the critics' scores and reviews. Simple as that. 

[drotto]

On 4/5/2023 at 9:24 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Ultimately, Marvel Studios needs to get good with the critics again, that is, making movies that they’ll give a thumbs up, because that Rotten Tomatoes score is everything now, I think. It’s what folks look at first to determine if it’s worth seeing. You can have the coolest trailer in the world, but if critics pan it, it’s over. I think Scorsese’s criticism of comic book movies kind of gave movie critics a hunting permit and now they smell blood in the water with comic book movies.  So it’s best if Marvel and DC don’t chum the waters with weak susceptible films. Don’t make world building the point. Do that in the credits like the old days. I think critics don’t care about world building. I know casual moviegoers could care less about it. Just make a good story with compelling character journeys that critics will review positively, and the rest will follow I think. And if there’s any doubt, don’t release it until there’s no doubt. 

The critics do not matter that much.  While, I can not deny that overwhelming critical response at either extreme my affect box office, it is not the only factor.  I have seen many instances where the fans and critics clearly disagree on a film or show, and it becomes a success or failure despite what the critics say. Critics have almost universally loved She-Hulk, Ms Marvel, Hawkeye, Moon Knight, Werewolf by Night,  but that has not translated into run away viewership. The gave positive reviews to Black Panther 2, but the consensus is still that the movie under performed. Ultimately, the way to win fans back is give fans what they want, give them  solid compelling stories, and characters they love.  That is where MCU is failing  right now.  The need to care less about critics and activists, and more about fans.

[Larryw7]

On 4/5/2023 at 7:32 PM, TupennyConan said:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/disney-marvel-perlmutter-laid-off-fired-16821248

Pretty soon, the guy who runs the Flying Dumbo ride at Disneyworld will be put in charge of the MCU.

[TupennyConan]

On 4/6/2023 at 4:51 AM, Larryw7 said:

Pretty soon, the guy who runs the Flying Dumbo ride at Disneyworld will be put in charge of the MCU.

This could work but first, what do you mean by guy? 

[theCapraAegagrus]

I re-watched large portions of Iron Man last night. There are very long stretches of that movie without jokes or quips. The entire sequence of building Mark I with Yinsen is the type of character interaction that the MCU has been sorely lacking since Endgame (sans Spider-Man).

Yes, it's clear that the Producers have been directing the MCU since Endgame. Get some quality writers again for god's sake.

[bentbryan]

On 4/6/2023 at 4:51 AM, Larryw7 said:

Pretty soon, the guy who runs the Flying Dumbo ride at Disneyworld will be put in charge of the MCU.

Can’t happen soon enough imo 

[@therealsilvermane]

On 4/6/2023 at 1:06 AM, drotto said:

The critics do not matter that much.  While, I can not deny that overwhelming critical response at either extreme my affect box office, it is not the only factor.  I have seen many instances where the fans and critics clearly disagree on a film or show, and it becomes a success or failure despite what the critics say. 

I’m not talking about so much what critics actually say, but the Rotten Tomatoes score itself. I think a lot of folks just look at the score and let that determine if it’s a good movie or no, regardless of what this or that critic says.  I think most folks also don’t even realize what the RT score means. I think they see 50% and think an overall F grade, when in reality it means the folks at Rotten Tomatoes determined that 50% of the critics in a certain pool gave the movie a positive review and 50% didn’t, a judgement call which itself is subjective. I didn’t see Black Adam but was it that bad? I don’t think Shazam 2 was that bad. Quantumania wasn’t that bad. I think the system is Rotten.

[Bosco685]

On 4/6/2023 at 9:04 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

I’m not talking about so much what critics actually say, but the Rotten Tomatoes score itself. I think a lot of folks just look at the score and let that determine if it’s a good movie or no, regardless of what this or that critic says.  I think most folks also don’t even realize what the RT score means. I think they see 50% and think an overall F grade, when in reality it means the folks at Rotten Tomatoes determined that 50% of the critics in a certain pool gave the movie a positive review and 50% didn’t, a judgement call which itself is subjective. I didn’t see Black Adam but was it that bad? I don’t think Shazam 2 was that bad. Quantumania wasn’t that bad. I think the system is Rotten.

It is interesting how times have changed. As with the RT thread for the longest time folks have noted how flawed and easily manipulated the Critic and Audience Scores can be. Including a critic acknowledging he purposely altered his score to keep a movie from hitting 100% fresh. But until the bulletproof MCU finally is impacted, it doesn't dawn on folks until then.

It really is worth reading those thread articles. Including how the marketing team behind Gotti purposely influenced the Audience Score to counter a 0% Critic Score. And I agree. There is a somewhat large audience portion that gauge attending movies just on those scores. Otherwise, why do studios, producers and directors complain so much how RT has negatively influenced moviegoers?

[drotto]

On 4/6/2023 at 9:45 AM, Bosco685 said:

It is interesting how times have changed. As with the RT thread for the longest time folks have noted how flawed and easily manipulated the Critic and Audience Scores can be. Including a critic acknowledging he purposely altered his score to keep a movie from hitting 100% fresh. But until the bulletproof MCU finally is impacted, it doesn't dawn on folks until then.

It really is worth reading those thread articles. Including how the marketing team behind Gotti purposely influenced the Audience Score to counter a 0% Critic Score. And I agree. There is a somewhat large audience portion that gauge attending movies just on those scores. Otherwise, why do studios, producers and directors complain so much how RT has negatively influenced moviegoers?

Also RT has shown their willingness to bend to the movie companies also.  They have essentially shown they are willing to manipulate scores, just as audiences had figured out the same. Why else would there have been so many changes to how scores are recorded, when scores are released, new verifications, etc.  Yes, the algorithm has proven that it is easy to manipulate, and this started hurting or potentially hurting the companies bottom line.  So, RT agreed to change how they do business due to pressures from corporations. 

[Artboy99]

On 4/6/2023 at 7:04 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

I’m not talking about so much what critics actually say, but the Rotten Tomatoes score itself. I think a lot of folks just look at the score and let that determine if it’s a good movie or no, regardless of what this or that critic says.  I think most folks also don’t even realize what the RT score means. I think they see 50% and think an overall F grade, when in reality it means the folks at Rotten Tomatoes determined that 50% of the critics in a certain pool gave the movie a positive review and 50% didn’t, a judgement call which itself is subjective. I didn’t see Black Adam but was it that bad? I don’t think Shazam 2 was that bad. Quantumania wasn’t that bad. I think the system is Rotten.

while the films were not that bad, they were also not that good. My opinion is Black Adam was the best of those 3 and overall all 3 were very average movies at best and I question if average movies is what you want to make? Creates an indifference in your viewing audience: if I tell my friends the movie was average they are less likely to spend their dollars to see it which is exactly what is happening.

[drotto]

On 4/6/2023 at 10:53 AM, Artboy99 said:

while the films were not that bad, they were also not that good. My opinion is Black Adam was the best of those 3 and overall all 3 were very average movies at best and I question if average movies is what you want to make? Creates an indifference in your viewing audience: if I tell my friends the movie was average they are less likely to spend their dollars to see it which is exactly what is happening.

This is exactly what has killed every genre in the past.  It is why westerns and Scifi had their day then passed.  You get some great films, and the public gets invested in that type of movie.  Then all the companies jump in, and a few great films leads to waves of mediocre to bad movies as everyone wants to cash in.  The public gets tired of that and eventually moves on to the next thing that seems original and of high quality. 

[media_junkie]

On 4/6/2023 at 10:53 AM, Artboy99 said:

while the films were not that bad, they were also not that good. My opinion is Black Adam was the best of those 3 and overall all 3 were very average movies at best and I question if average movies is what you want to make? Creates an indifference in your viewing audience: if I tell my friends the movie was average they are less likely to spend their dollars to see it which is exactly what is happening.

100% truth right there.  If a friend of mine who I know has similar movie tastes as I do tells me that "Ant-man 3 is average at best", then I will not be spending upwards of $100 (tickets for four and snacks, or tickets for 2 and baby sitter, either way) to see an "average at best" movie.  I will wait for it to hit streaming and rent it for like $5, I waited years for it to be made, a few more months waiting to stream/rent won't hurt me.

[Artboy99]

On 4/6/2023 at 10:46 AM, media_junkie said:

100% truth right there.  If a friend of mine who I know has similar movie tastes as I do tells me that "Ant-man 3 is average at best", then I will not be spending upwards of $100 (tickets for four and snacks, or tickets for 2 and baby sitter, either way) to see an "average at best" movie.  I will wait for it to hit streaming and rent it for like $5, I waited years for it to be made, a few more months waiting to stream/rent won't hurt me.

Yes, and even when it is available on streaming for $5 that friend may not choose to watch it. I have friends that share the comic movie interest that have never bothered to watch Thor Love and Thunder as an example because I told them it was a terrible movie.