Post your Promise Collection wins! 17 17

[tth2]

On 7/29/2023 at 11:29 PM, october said:

We are still the only hobby dumb enough to value 9.8 QP freakshows higher than perfectly made copies with a minor flaw or two. I am not sure that many collectors "decide" much of anything. They let the number on the slab do the thinking for them. 

I have no problem with that.  You can go into the BA Forum any time and see people proudly showing off their 9.6 or 9.8 BA Marvel with a big fat white stripe down the spine and a banner and title at the top that is seriously slanted from the top edge, and you just politely smile and nod.  I envy them for their lack of OCD!

I definitely wouldn't want our hobby to be like sports cards where grading seems to be as much about QP as it is about structural defects and as a result they're using protractors and rulers to measure centering and alignment down to the micromillimeter.  

[tth2]

On 7/30/2023 at 2:35 AM, Mmehdy said:

watch for the promise collection  price comeback in 2025!!!!!!!!!

I don't think coming back from their resale prices will be that difficult.

[lou_fine]

On 7/28/2023 at 7:48 PM, tth2 said:

I guess CGC's position has always been that their job is to identify things that can't be easily or fully identified through a scan of a slab, such as structural defects and PQ, but anyone with eyes can look at a scan and see the QP problems and judge for themselves whether they still want the book. 

If we step back from the hobby place that the comic book world is thought to be by comic book collectors here, isn't CGC just another corporate business entity? 

As such from a pure business point of view, isn't it CGC's primary job to maximize both the top and bottom lines to their CCS (and now Blackstone) owner group?  In the course of performing their primary job here, if it also serves the "best interests" of the hobby and the collecting base here at the same time, all the better for it.  And if it just so happens not to, but as long as it doesn't negatively affects CGC's business plan going forward, then so be it.  

 

On 7/28/2023 at 11:57 AM, Sarg said:

Yes. I disagree with CGC "standards," which are, of course, arbitrary, subjective, and debatable. The notion that, for example, a mild spine roll could knock a whole point off the grade while large, prominent writing in the middle of a cover only counts for a .2 reduction is pure whimsy, utterly devoid of anything resembling aesthetic judgement. 

From a corporate point of view, isn't that the beauty of having undisclosed grading standards as they can simply be adjusted subtley over time to suit your current business agenda of the day?    

If you take a look at the Graders Notes for pretty much any certified book nowadays, save for the lower graded copies, you should get a pretty clear idea of which defects have seemingly moved up to the top of their "hit parade chart" with a bullet right next to it.  Let's just say it's leaning very very heavily to the defects that tends to entice submittors, in particular to the flippers and speculators, to send their books back in on a seemingly endless cycle just to see if they can squeeze just that little bit more potential out of it.  

Definitely a case of to each their own, but I would much rather stay away from a book that has bad visual aesthetics that you can see clear across the convention floor but has that big number in the top left hand corner, as opposed to a book with a smaller number in the top left hand corner but has nice eye appeal and near invisible defects that can best be seen with a loupe while sitting atop a light table.    

 

[adamstrange]

On 7/30/2023 at 12:29 PM, lou_fine said:

From a corporate point of view, isn't that the beauty of having undisclosed grading standards as they can simply be adjusted subtley over time to suit your current business agenda of the day?

They have gone to great lengths to keep their standard secret.

https://www.cgccomics.com/news/article/10586/cgc-guide-grading-comics-nelson/

[sfcityduck]

On 7/30/2023 at 10:02 AM, adamstrange said:

They have gone to great lengths to keep their standard secret.

https://www.cgccomics.com/news/article/10586/cgc-guide-grading-comics-nelson/

The pedigree book finally appears: “There are chapters on … pedigrees….”

[lou_fine]

On 7/30/2023 at 10:02 AM, adamstrange said:

They have gone to great lengths to keep their standard secret.

https://www.cgccomics.com/news/article/10586/cgc-guide-grading-comics-nelson/

Sadly, and then came the Promise Collection right after that was written to show the inconsistency and sheer ambiguity in grading which pretty much made that book obsolete and irrelevant.  

[batman_fan]

On 7/30/2023 at 11:02 AM, adamstrange said:

They have gone to great lengths to keep their standard secret.

https://www.cgccomics.com/news/article/10586/cgc-guide-grading-comics-nelson/

So glad he focused on this book versus the Pedigree book.

[Dr. Love]

On 7/30/2023 at 11:25 AM, lou_fine said:

Sadly, and then came the Promise Collection right after that was written to show the inconsistency and sheer ambiguity in grading which pretty much made that book obsolete and irrelevant.  

Such a bad look for you, krapping on the floor of your host's house.  Even if you're right, level up, for goodness sake.

Your love for the medium is obvious, your knowledge base deep and wide. Yet this one note stuff is, as Richard has said, tiresome.

[lou_fine]

On 7/30/2023 at 11:58 AM, batman_fan said:

So glad he focused on this book versus the Pedigree book.

So glad I never put a deposit down or paid for the Pedigree Book in advance like what they were offering way way back in the day.      

[lou_fine]

On 7/30/2023 at 4:18 PM, Dr. Love said:

Your love for the medium is obvious, your knowledge base deep and wide. Yet this one note stuff is, as Richard has said, tiresome.

Looks like a 3-prong opinionated sandwich here with the two slices on the outside looking pretty good, but the meat in the middle not so much.   

Edited July 30, 2023 by lou_fine

[MrBedrock]

On 7/30/2023 at 6:18 PM, Dr. Love said:

.. your knowledge base the vacuous gap between your ears is deep and wide....

fixed

Edited July 31, 2023 by MrBedrock

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

Well a bit more intel coming in with CC’s ongoing auction. The Cap 2 owner may recoup his money from the original Promise auction lollapalooza

[Cat-Man_America]

On 8/22/2023 at 5:08 PM, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

Well a bit more intel coming in with CC’s ongoing auction. The Cap 2 owner may recoup his money from the original Promise auction lollapalooza

It won't surprise me if this bests expectations, beating the prior hammer price by a fair margin. Unlike a lot of high grade Promise books, not many high demand Timelys have reentered the market, this isn't exactly a quick flip for the consigner. With or without the pedigree, even in low grade, it's a key book (rematch Cap vs. Hitler on cover, first round throwable shield). 

Without getting into rationalizing why so many flipped Promise books lose money, it just seems to me that immediately turning around and re-auctioning any book assumes a lot of risks, and bidders usually aren't that gullible. 

 

[lou_fine]

On 8/22/2023 at 10:01 PM, Cat-Man_America said:

It won't surprise me if this bests expectations, beating the prior hammer price by a fair margin. Unlike a lot of high grade Promise books, not many high demand Timelys have reentered the market, this isn't exactly a quick flip for the consigner. With or without the pedigree, even in low grade, it's a key book (rematch Cap vs. Hitler on cover, first round throwable shield). 

Without getting into rationalizing why so many flipped Promise books lose money, it just seems to me that immediately turning around and re-auctioning any book assumes a lot of risks, and bidders usually aren't that gullible. 

 

Totally agree with all of your points here since it's usually never kind to your wallet to try to do a fast flip regardless if it's a Promise book or not, especially if you had possibly overpaid for the book in the first place.  

Speaking of Promise resales, it appears the consignor of this one here lost money after having it slabbed and resold on HA this past Sunday:  

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/crime/murder-incorporated-14-the-promise-collection-pedigree-fox-features-syndicate-1949-cgc-fn-vf-70-white-pages/a/122334-15096.s?type=bidnotice-tracked-endofauction

Sold for only $960 after initially purchasing it as a raw VF- copy back in December of 2021 for $1,140 and then having to pay even more money to have it graded and slabbed for this auction here.  

Edited August 23, 2023 by lou_fine

[Cat-Man_America]

On 8/23/2023 at 11:24 AM, lou_fine said:

Totally agree with all of your points here since it's usually never kind to your wallet to try to do a fast flip regardless if it's a Promise book or not, especially if you had possibly overpaid for the book in the first place.  

Speaking of Promise resales, it appears the consignor of this one here lost money after having it slabbed and resold on HA this past Sunday:  

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/crime/murder-incorporated-14-the-promise-collection-pedigree-fox-features-syndicate-1949-cgc-fn-vf-70-white-pages/a/122334-15096.s?type=bidnotice-tracked-endofauction

Sold for only $960 after initially purchasing it as a raw VF- copy back in December of 2021 for $1,140 and then having to pay even more money to have it graded and slabbed for this auction here.  

It's hard to argue with hammered results; sales figures speak volumes. From my perspective, resubmitting Promise Collection books would almost seem counterintuitive if seeking a grade bump. It's just hard to imagine more fairy dust being spread over these books at the pressing level after the generosity of the initial grading process. But CGC alchemists are rumored to know the secret of turning lead into gold.

Note: I feel it's necessary to provide context here since any mention of this pedigree has been known to digress into perceived negativity (wouldn't wanna do that!). As an owner of several high grade Promise books I'm very satisfied with their appearance and grading. What makes Promise books so special is the uniqueness of the Hollywood -script level story behind them and discovery of many highly sought after books from the mid and late 40's in higher grades. 'Nuff said. 

[clarkkentdds]

Almost every main stream superhero Promise book has now returned to HA within less than 2 years.

Surely this was one buyer. I have a hard time believing two or more buyers would follow this same pattern of reselling these books.

So, the question still remains: Was the "sale" really an unrealized sale? Or just a quick flip?

 

 

[batman_fan]

On 8/22/2023 at 11:01 PM, Cat-Man_America said:

It won't surprise me if this bests expectations, beating the prior hammer price by a fair margin. Unlike a lot of high grade Promise books, not many high demand Timelys have reentered the market, this isn't exactly a quick flip for the consigner. With or without the pedigree, even in low grade, it's a key book (rematch Cap vs. Hitler on cover, first round throwable shield). 

Without getting into rationalizing why so many flipped Promise books lose money, it just seems to me that immediately turning around and re-auctioning any book assumes a lot of risks, and bidders usually aren't that gullible. 

 

Cat, you are the Alex Jones of the message board

[Cat-Man_America]

On 8/23/2023 at 6:17 PM, batman_fan said:

Cat, you are the Alex Jones of the message board

  I've been compared to a lot of weird things, but never Alex Jones!   

[lou_fine]

On 8/22/2023 at 3:08 PM, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

Well a bit more intel coming in with CC’s ongoing auction. The Cap 2 owner may recoup his money from the original Promise auction lollapalooza

Well, looks like you and Cat were both bang on as it sold for $16,675 or almost 60% more than its initial go round of only $10,500 back in 2021:  

On 8/23/2023 at 4:17 PM, batman_fan said:

 

 

[whomerjay]

On 8/24/2023 at 12:46 AM, lou_fine said:

Well, looks like you and Cat were both bang on as it sold for $16,675 or almost 60% more than its initial go round of only $10,500 back in 2021:  

 

Not an expert in GA Cap pricing but a special book like this even in low grade seems like it should command more than 10K especially a pedigree that presents well for the grade (a rare thing to say about a Promise).

However, once you factor in buyer fee for original purchase, then seller fee for this sale, what is the actual net?