New Action #1 CGC 8.0 and New Detective Comics #27 CGC 8.5 in the Census 4 4

[lou_fine]

On 8/12/2021 at 11:26 AM, Chicago Boy said:

On 8/12/2021 at 11:07 AM, fishbone said:

I'm not going to say who, but I can confirm as a generality this sort of thing has been offered to me in the past, plus other incentives.  

That's what makes Heritage so great IMO (among other things). Never experienced that opportunity at CC or CLINK but did with Hakes

Well, if your starting point for fees are in the 30%+ range, then HA clearly has a lot more flexibility for adding in some freebies as compared to both CC and CL where the fees are generally baked in already at only 10%.  

As a consignor, the only real thing that should matter is how much you are able to pocket out of the whole transaction by the time it's all said and done.  

Edited August 14, 2021 by lou_fine

[Chicago Boy]

On 8/14/2021 at 11:13 AM, lou_fine said:

Well, if your starting point for fees are in the 30%+ range, then HA clearly has a lot more flexibility for adding in some freebies as compared to both CC and CL where the fees are generally baked in already at only 10%.  

As a consignor, the only real thing that should matter is how much you are able to pocket out of the whole transaction by the time it's all said and done.  

Agree but at least Heritage and Hakes were willing to go below the 10 percent but I'm sure that's just moving the BP around if your Heritage 

[lou_fine]

On 8/14/2021 at 9:35 AM, Chicago Boy said:

Agree but at least Heritage and Hakes were willing to go below the 10 percent but I'm sure that's just moving the BP around if your Heritage 

Was this below the 10% for ALL fees combined which I would find really surprsing for HA, but if it's below 10% for just the SP portion only, then that's quite normal depending upon what portion of the BP they give back to you (if any at all)?    

[Mmehdy]

I think every auction house fee is negotiable with the all them. It depends on the source material. Ha has become the big #1 with CC now a distant second and CL and Pedigree  even farther behind, so with the right stuff you have a number of options available.

Edited August 14, 2021 by Mmehdy

[Chicago Boy]

On 8/14/2021 at 12:21 PM, lou_fine said:

Was this below the 10% for ALL fees combined which I would find really surprsing for HA, but if it's below 10% for just the SP portion only, then that's quite normal depending upon what portion of the BP they give back to you (if any at all)?    

Just the SP portion.  CC is definitely a distant second these days.  Private sales don't mean much to me when comparing since I view that on the Metropolis side. Any idea how Goldin got the Larson Bats 1 away from CC for their very first comic auction ? 

[lou_fine]

On 8/5/2021 at 7:30 AM, buttock said:

On 8/5/2021 at 7:28 AM, Gotham Kid said:

Expand  

That's a great example of what Tim already pointed out.  When that book dropped people immediately said it was overgraded, they should have gone with CGC, CBCS affected the sale price, etc.  

Not sure how you guys managed to get away with posting this pic here since I always get a warning and post deleted whenever I post a picture of a book that's been graded by the across the street.  

Nevertheless, this example also clearly reminds me of the CBCS 9.0 graded Penn copy of Suspense Comics 3 auctioned off on HA a couple of years earlier back in 2015 and managed to fetched just over $173K for that copy, even though the exact same negative connatations were also said about that copy at the time.  I remember it really picked up steam when the exact same consignor than proceeded to auction off a CBCS 8.5 graded copy of AF 15 the following year in 2016, with many boardies here stating that the book would be lucky to grade higher than the 7's if CGC ever got their hands on the book.  Found it kind of funny when the eventual winner of the books was called an absolutely know nothing fool for paying something like $77K for the book (or at a 32% discount to condition guide) and how they were not only going to lose their shirt, but also their pants on this purchase of theirs.  

Lo and behold, the exact same copy of AF 15 would end up being encased in a CGC holder with the exact same 8.5 grade and then resold once again some short months later at HA, but this time for over $155K:    

https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/amazing-fantasy-15-marvel-1962-cgc-vf-85-off-white-to-white-pages/a/7158-91123.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

No surprise though that the same boardies who had called the buyer a fool at $77K were now calling him a fool for selling at such a low price of only $155K because the book was really worth a lot more than that and he should be holding out for much more money on the book.  

[tth2]

On 8/15/2021 at 12:13 AM, lou_fine said:

Well, if your starting point for fees are in the 30%+ range, then HA clearly has a lot more flexibility for adding in some freebies as compared to both CC and CL where the fees are generally baked in already at only 10%.  

As a consignor, the only real thing that should matter is how much you are able to pocket out of the whole transaction by the time it's all said and done.  

But both CC and CL run such bare bones operations, so they should be able to cut their fees below 10%.

If Heritage is able to offer 90% of the gross sales price of any Promise Book (i.e., 10% seller fee), then CC and CL should be able to come in under that.

[tth2]

On 8/15/2021 at 2:28 AM, lou_fine said:

the exact same consignor than proceeded to auction off a CBCS 8.5 graded copy of AF 15 the following year in 2016, with many boardies here stating that the book would be lucky to grade higher than the 7's if CGC ever got their hands on the book.  Found it kind of funny when the eventual winner of the books was called an absolutely know nothing fool for paying something like $77K for the book (or at a 32% discount to condition guide) and how they were not only going to lose their shirt, but also their pants on this purchase of theirs.  

Lo and behold, the exact same copy of AF 15 would end up being encased in a CGC holder with the exact same 8.5 grade and then resold once again some short months later at HA, but this time for over $155K:  

The only person who should be called a fool is Magik, for his penny-wise but pound-foolish approach.  If he'd slabbed the book with CGC and gotten a 8.5, he wouldn't have left $78k on the table.  I hope the few hundred dollars he saved consoled him.  

The point is that even if there is a good chance that a competition-graded book might get the same grade from CGC, it's still only "a good chance", and bidders will discount accordingly.  A book graded by CGC is the CGC grade (i.e., 100% certainty), and bidders will bid accordingly.   

The only people who benefit from books being graded by the competitor are the buyers who are able to spot a good arbitrage opportunity.

[Chicago Boy]

On 8/14/2021 at 9:08 PM, tth2 said:

But both CC and CL run such bare bones operations, so they should be able to cut their fees below 10%.

If Heritage is able to offer 90% of the gross sales price of any Promise Book (i.e., 10% seller fee), then CC and CL should be able to come in under that.

I would guess CL even has more employees than CC ?

[Mr bla bla]

On 8/14/2021 at 8:28 PM, lou_fine said:

Not sure how you guys managed to get away with posting this pic here since I always get a warning and post deleted whenever I post a picture of a book that's been graded by the across the street.  

Nevertheless, this example also clearly reminds me of the CBCS 9.0 graded Penn copy of Suspense Comics 3 auctioned off on HA a couple of years earlier back in 2015 and managed to fetched just over $173K for that copy, even though the exact same negative connatations were also said about that copy at the time.  I remember it really picked up steam when the exact same consignor than proceeded to auction off a CBCS 8.5 graded copy of AF 15 the following year in 2016, with many boardies here stating that the book would be lucky to grade higher than the 7's if CGC ever got their hands on the book.  Found it kind of funny when the eventual winner of the books was called an absolutely know nothing fool for paying something like $77K for the book (or at a 32% discount to condition guide) and how they were not only going to lose their shirt, but also their pants on this purchase of theirs.  

Lo and behold, the exact same copy of AF 15 would end up being encased in a CGC holder with the exact same 8.5 grade and then resold once again some short months later at HA, but this time for over $155K:    

https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/amazing-fantasy-15-marvel-1962-cgc-vf-85-off-white-to-white-pages/a/7158-91123.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

No surprise though that the same boardies who had called the buyer a fool at $77K were now calling him a fool for selling at such a low price of only $155K because the book was really worth a lot more than that and he should be holding out for much more money on the book.  

Thats why we say:

buy the book, not the label.

buy the book not the grading trademark.

[lou_fine]

On 8/14/2021 at 7:21 PM, tth2 said:

The only person who should be called a fool is Magik, for his penny-wise but pound-foolish approach.  If he'd slabbed the book with CGC and gotten a 8.5, he wouldn't have left $78k on the table.  I hope the few hundred dollars he saved consoled him.  

I've actually talked to him quite a few times about this collection of his (ok, if you know Magik, basically he talked    and I ended up listening ) and although he certainly did have a lot of reasons for going with CBCS, grading fees were never ever mentioned even once in any of the conversations.  Except for a few of the bigger books, I don't think there would have been much signifiant differences in the grading fees back then back in 2014 or thereabouts.  

The biggest reason and the one that he had kept harping on back then time and time again was that CGC couldn't be trusted to grade his books properly because they were all a bunch of newbies who didn't know what they were doing and always ended up overgrading their books, which was the last thing he wanted to have done to his books.  Not too sure, but at that time, there was probably a bit of merit to that argument as the 2011 to 2012 time period or thereabouts have generally been recognized as a time for overgraded books coming from CGC.  Enough to make me extra careful when it comes to bidding on a CGC graded book from this particular time period when I check the grading date from the serial number.  

I believe another reason why he went with CBCS was that he was on good terms with Borock and as a result, had both trust and confidence with the grading joib which they would do.  Being an entertainer by trade, I also believe he likes to have his name out there and the fact that Borock was willing to put "From The Personal Collection of Mister Magik Woo" was a big deal for him, as he had pointed this out to me a few times and the fact that they had to relabelled all of the slabs because they had initially spelled his last name incorrectly.  Not sure if CGC would have done this for him at the time, but also a case of to each their own, as that would certainly be something that a lot of collectors here (including me) would certainly not want at all.  

Yeah, I agree 110% with you that he ended up leaving a lot of money on the table by refusing to go with CGC for the grading, with the Richie Rich #1 File Copy being another perfect case in point.  Being an old-time collector in this new "maximization of potential" focused marketplace, he definitely also left even more money on the table by apparently refusing to have any of his books pressed because he viewed that as artificial manipulation of the books and something that should never ever be done.  From my own POV for what it's worth, another issue was although all of the books were graded at the same time, the release of them on HA from most valuable to least valuable over the years should have been done the other way around.  His argument was that the Suspense 3 and the HG Spidey books the following year would raise the profile for the rest of his collection so that they could achieve better results when it came to their turn.  Clearly another case of to each their own, as I personally would probably leave my most valuable books until the very end to sell, whenever it came time to dispose of my collection even though I clearly have nothing like what he had in terms of the Suspense and Spidey's.  

Edited August 15, 2021 by lou_fine

[lou_fine]

On 8/14/2021 at 8:02 PM, Chicago Boy said:

I would guess CL even has more employees than CC ?

I believe this is pretty much of a no-brainer here.  

[rob_react]

 

On 8/15/2021 at 2:01 PM, lou_fine said:

 (ok, if you know Magik, basically he talked    and I ended up listening )

I spoke to him about his books a few years ago. He can talk! It was a great conversation, although I mostly listened. 

[tth2]

On 8/16/2021 at 2:01 AM, lou_fine said:

The biggest reason and the one that he had kept harping on back then time and time again was that CGC couldn't be trusted to grade his books properly because they were all a bunch of newbies who didn't know what they were doing and always ended up overgrading their books, which was the last thing he wanted to have done to his books.  Not too sure, but at that time, there was probably a bit of merit to that argument as the 2011 to 2012 time period or thereabouts have generally been recognized as a time for overgraded books coming from CGC. 

So he steered away from CGC because he was afraid they would give his books too high a grade?!  And went to the competition because he thought they would give them a lower grade, which was a double whammy because the market assumes that the competition's books are overgraded?

This was like a perfect storm of bad decisions! 

[Crowzilla]

On 7/28/2021 at 12:38 PM, sfcityduck said:

Not sure why folks think that the 9.6 is going to hit $2M+. The last 9.4 only garnered $795K, only about 12% above a pre-Covid sale back in 2017. So I'm not seeing a huge "Covid boost" on this book.  Furthermore, the when one of the other three 9.6s broke $1M back in 2011, wasn't it the only 9.6 on the census?  Now there are four.

Well now the AF15 has officially surpassed the highest graded Bat1 in price and question remains whether or not it will set a new auction record. 

[Gotham Kid]

On 8/26/2021 at 9:24 AM, Crowzilla said:

Well now the AF15 has officially surpassed the highest graded Bat1 in price and question remains whether or not it will set a new auction record. 

at least 4Mil

[rob_react]

On 8/26/2021 at 4:24 AM, Crowzilla said:

Well now the AF15 has officially surpassed the highest graded Bat1 in price and question remains whether or not it will set a new auction record. 

I'm convinced it will. And then ComicConnect will start checking underneath the couch cushions for a spare high grade Detective #27 or Action #1. 

[Gotham Kid]

On 8/26/2021 at 12:56 PM, rob_react said:

I'm convinced it will. And then ComicConnect will start checking underneath the couch cushions for a spare high grade Detective #27 or Action #1. 

For the past many months Heritage has put out several AWESOME books but I have yet to see a measured response from CC

[Professor K]

On 8/26/2021 at 5:32 AM, Gotham Kid said:

at least 4Mil

Anything can happen but I think its going to stay about where it is now up until the final day then finish around 3.4 - 3.5. ..... but 4 million wouldnt surprise me much. 

It will finish as the highest price ever paid but those few highest graded Action 1's and Tec 27's out there will always be worth more (as I'm sure you know).  Personally I'd also take the 9.4 Bat 1 over the 9.6 AF regardless of what either sold for. 

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Professor Chaos

[rob_react]

On 8/26/2021 at 8:24 AM, Gotham Kid said:

For the past many months Heritage has put out several AWESOME books but I have yet to see a measured response from CC

True, but Comic Connect is more sensitive to the records then Heritage is. Big books is one thing. The world record is another. They'd want to respond if they could.