New Action #1 CGC 8.0 and New Detective Comics #27 CGC 8.5 in the Census 4 4

[G.A.tor]

On 8/8/2021 at 7:05 PM, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

They're in Florida. I don't know what the facility looks like but there's a lot of potential for natural disasters in Florida

 

 

Hey @G.A.tor. Thoughts?

Don’t like Florida anymore   That’s my thoughts. 

[lou_fine]

On 8/8/2021 at 4:55 PM, adamstrange said:

On 8/8/2021 at 1:53 PM, RareHighGrade said:

Can anyone confirm whether Heritage or any other auction house has covered the grading fee for a submitter?  I didn't realize that was possible.

Yes.  Heritage, with respect to the McLaughlin collection back in 2006.  The comics were sold at the direction of the court as part of the disposition of his estate, and the judge refused to authorize grading fees.  Since there were 600 or so Church books in the collection, Heritage slabbed a small portion to maximize their revenue.

This doesn't really tell us a whole lot when it comes to Heritage due to their wide range of fees which they have in play.  

Did the judge also refused to authorize the Buyer's Premium and the Seller's Premium to be paid out to Heritage or did the estate have to pay the full shot on both of these fees without the same level of flexibility or negotiation that other big consignors normally receive?  

[adamstrange]

On 8/8/2021 at 8:27 PM, lou_fine said:

This doesn't really tell us a whole lot when it comes to Heritage due to their wide range of fees which they have in play.  

Did the judge also refused to authorize the Buyer's Premium and the Seller's Premium to be paid out to Heritage or did the estate have to pay the full shot on both of these fees without the same level of flexibility or negotiation that other big consignors normally receive?  

Buyers and sellers fees are common auction practices for ages.  Do you think a probate judge is unaware?

[rob_react]

None of this stuff is dictated by anything other than the agreement you have with the auction house. They have standard terms, but if you have something they want you can negotiate. That's not really a point of contention, is it? Without thinking about it for more than five seconds you could say to Heritage- "I could get a much better deal at ComicConnect and they've broken six world records, why should I bother paying 38% to you?"

Edited August 9, 2021 by rob_react

[tth2]

On 8/9/2021 at 5:18 AM, lou_fine said:

 

As far as I am aware, no consignors to any of the big 3 comic book auction houses would ever have to pay upfront to cover grading fees.  They all would be more than happy to cover your up front grading/pressing costs and then simply deduct it back out as a line item on the payment owing to you just to get your books. 

Now, as to agreeing to go one big step further and cover your grading fees enntirely so that you do not have to pay for them in the end at all, now that would be a completely different story.  I imagine it would be based upon how good your negotiation skills and the quality of your books are.  I imagine Heritage would have a lot more leeway to play here in terms of agreeing to waive your grading fees, but then not letting you know that they will not agree to give you back as much in terms of your BP and SP.  I just don't see Heritage agreeing to waive these egregious new higher fees without getting something back in return. 

It's probably like the old styple haggling when you go to the car lot to buy a car.  Sure, they'll give you a much better price on your used car, but then also give you a much smaller discount on your new car.  Probably a case of six or one half dozen of the other here.  

This.  Heritage will have a bottom line number in mind, so if they pick up the grading and pressing fees, then the BP rebate they offer will shrink accordingly, and vice versa. 

On fronting the grading and pressing fees, Heritage offers advances, so they definitely covered those fees upfront and just deducted them from the final payout. 

[tth2]

On 8/9/2021 at 6:27 AM, LordRahl said:

Prior to Backstone purchasing them, they'd just go out of business and good luck suing them to recover but now there is a much bigger entity with a lot more money to go after.

There would be no one to go after except CGC itself, not even its parent corporation let alone Blackstone.  CGC is set up as a LLC to shield its shareholder(s) from any of CGC's liabilities, unless any claimant is able to do something known as "piercing the corporate veil", which is hard.

Even if the corporate veil could be pierced, Blackstone and its LPs would have so many layers between themselves and CGC that the chances of getting any recovery from them would be zero.    

[Aman619]

in such a case with CGC having client assets/property etc destroyed, wouldn't the owners insurance go after CGCs insurance carrier to collect?  Assuming a claim was made before a bankruptcy declaration, or whatever legal step was taken by CGC that perhaps absolves their insurance company from having to settle any claims thereafter?

 

Up until some point, CGCs insurance company who was paid premiums (assuming that CGC DID pay them in that final year) must be liable to pay.  no?

Edited August 9, 2021 by Aman619

[rob_react]

"piercing the corporate veil"

It sounds so dramatic. Safe, to say- Blackstone is pretty good at not being pierced. 

[Aman619]

Im sure that even before Blackstone, the owners group didnt sign any "good guy" clauses making them personally liable either!

[lou_fine]

On 8/6/2021 at 7:59 AM, tth2 said:

Don't forget that Mitch's first action upon becoming CC's CEO would be to consign all of their books to Heritage. 

Kind of remind me of Schmell when it came time to dispose of his own personal Marvel SA collection and he took it to Heritage, instead of entrusting it to sell on his own Pedigree Comics.com auction website.  Makes you kind of wonder why any consignor should be taking their books to Pedigree to sell.  

Of course, I guess his counter argument might be that putting his own book on his own auction website could possible be perceived as a potential conflict of interest, but I highly doubt that was the reason why he decided to go with Heritage.  

[jimjum12]

On 8/8/2021 at 8:04 PM, G.A.tor said:

Don’t like Florida anymore   That’s my thoughts. 

Of course, you're in the foothills of Paradise now. I can actually get to where you are now and would enjoy the drive to do so. I'm glad you're back posting again, Rick. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[G.A.tor]

On 8/9/2021 at 8:56 AM, jimjum12 said:

Of course, you're in the foothills of Paradise now. I can actually get to where you are now and would enjoy the drive to do so. I'm glad you're back posting again, Rick. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

I stop by every so often

[jimjum12]

On 8/9/2021 at 10:58 AM, G.A.tor said:

I stop by every so often

Treating you to lunch is on my bucket list, brother.... GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[tth2]

On 8/9/2021 at 10:22 AM, Aman619 said:

in such a case with CGC having client assets/property etc destroyed, wouldn't the owners insurance go after CGCs insurance carrier to collect?  Assuming a claim was made before a bankruptcy declaration, or whatever legal step was taken by CGC that perhaps absolves their insurance company from having to settle any claims thereafter?

 

Up until some point, CGCs insurance company who was paid premiums (assuming that CGC DID pay them in that final year) must be liable to pay.  no?

Of course.  The point is that any claimant would go after CGC and their insurers.  This would've been the case before and after the acquisition by Blackstone.  Blackstone are completely irrelevant.

If any claimant was successful in getting recourse against Blackstone, the first thing that would happen would be Blackstone suing whichever law firm it hired to do the CGC acquisition for malpractice.

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 8/9/2021 at 10:04 AM, tth2 said:

If any claimant was successful in getting recourse against Blackstone, the first thing that would happen would be Blackstone suing whichever law firm it hired to do the CGC acquisition for malpractice.

[G.A.tor]

On 8/9/2021 at 11:03 AM, jimjum12 said:

Treating you to lunch is on my bucket list, brother.... GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Some Yummy places around here 

[fishbone]

On 8/8/2021 at 4:53 PM, RareHighGrade said:

Can anyone confirm whether Heritage or any other auction house has covered the grading fee for a submitter?  I didn't realize that was possible.

I'm not going to say who, but I can confirm as a generality this sort of thing has been offered to me in the past, plus other incentives.  

[Chicago Boy]

On 8/12/2021 at 1:07 PM, fishbone said:

I'm not going to say who, but I can confirm as a generality this sort of thing has been offered to me in the past, plus other incentives.  

That's what makes Heritage so great IMO (among other things). Never experienced that opportunity at CC or CLINK but did with Hakes

[Bronty]

On 8/9/2021 at 11:04 AM, tth2 said:

Of course.  The point is that any claimant would go after CGC and their insurers.  This would've been the case before and after the acquisition by Blackstone.  Blackstone are completely irrelevant.

If any claimant was successful in getting recourse against Blackstone, the first thing that would happen would be Blackstone suing whichever law firm it hired to do the CGC acquisition for malpractice.

Hah! 

[pemart1966]

On 8/8/2021 at 5:19 PM, LordRahl said:

I can't confirm as I've never been in this position... unfortunately... however if you are giving an auction house tens of millions of dollars worth of consignments as the promise collection owners did, I imagine everything is negotiable, including grading fees.

EVERYTHING is negotiable...