Oh Man I Sure Hope the Comics Market Never Crashes as Bad as the Stamps Market 13 13

[Poekaymon]

On 3/11/2022 at 6:44 PM, D2 said:

Same as you, I was hooked on comics at 10, through books at the convenient store. 
 

When kids hit 16, they have wheels and are mobile. By 16 they are into parties with raging hormones, probably for a few years already. Optimum age to snag a real reader is 9 to 11. The Walmart approach was good, but the execution failed. Go back to the bookshelf with the magazines. Corner stores… wherever. Everywhere… anyway, I digress. 

I don't think kids are hanging out at corner stores or whatever places with magazine racks anymore either.  I personally used to hang out at certain markets and convenience stores because they had coin-op games.  No one cares about that anymore.  And I didn't even have basic cable, so entertainment was pretty hard to come by.  But Amazon and others have all but killed local bookstores and the like where I used to go after school anyway.  For that matter, a lot of people shop almost exclusively online now (for nearly everything) so there is little chance of getting them confronted with some comics in any case.

I think you will still have new collectors who think they are cool because of the art or the connections to the movies, or who were introduced to them by parents or older siblings.  They often have violence and scantily clad women, which is timeless as far as young men goes.  So in that way they have some advantages over stamps.  But I think the age of spreading comic books around corner stores and other places in the hopes of grabbing new readers is dead and it ain't coming back.

[MisterX]

I have four kids between the ages of 12 and 18. 

I know this is anecdotal, but...

My kids and their friends enjoy the comic book movies, both Marvel and DC. 

But they read manga. 

Manga is where it's at for Gen Z. 

And I have no idea why they find manga preferable to western comic books. I've asked them, and they can't explain. Which, I think, secretly means that western comics books are essentially old-fashioned dad-stuff.

If you want to speculate, start buying first editions of Demon Slayer, One Piece, and all the others, because if Gen Z gets the urge to collect dead trees, that's what they're going to be chasing. 

 

[Krydel4]

On 3/11/2022 at 6:00 PM, MisterX said:

I have four kids between the ages of 12 and 18. 

I know this is anecdotal, but...

My kids and their friends enjoy the comic book movies, both Marvel and DC. 

But they read manga. 

Manga is where it's at for Gen Z. 

And I have no idea why they find manga preferable to western comic books. I've asked them, and they can't explain. Which, I think, secretly means that western comics books are essentially old-fashioned dad-stuff.

If you want to speculate, start buying first editions of Demon Slayer, One Piece, and all the others, because if Gen Z gets the urge to collect dead trees, that's what they're going to be chasing. 

 

Too true. However, I think making digital comics easier to obtain and at a good price point of 99 cents (cost of an app) would enable the younger generation to be more open to them. Manga is everywhere in Asia. When I lived in Japan it was on the tables at the doctors offices, waiting rooms at city hall, in bookshelves at restaurants and cafes for you to read while waiting for food. Most families have a Manga section on their bookshelves at home. It is a different mentality as they consider it art as well as being commercial. Same with Animated films, they are just as legitimate works as any live action films, not the cartoons are for kids mentality that permeates here.

Edited March 12, 2022 by Krydel4
Clarity

[D2]

On 3/11/2022 at 7:24 PM, jjonahjameson11 said:

Interesting, but the vast majority of teens that I see these days have absolutely no interest in reading anything except for video game instructions or Magic card instructions.

they’re ALWAYS on their phones, discord servers,  cruising the malls for a ‘hookup’ or playing video games.

 I time, money or interest leftover for comics

That’s kind of my point. I want to know how many kids buy comics. I think the only person(s) that would have any close idea is a store owner. But that’s my thing, how can comic books compete to a video game? Why read Batman when you can BE Batman, lurking in the shadows, breaking peoples’ neck. Arkham Asylum is an unbelievable game… Kids either truly enjoy reading them, or not. And if not, then who is even going to care to buy them?

On 3/11/2022 at 8:18 PM, Poekaymon said:

I don't think kids are hanging out at corner stores or whatever places with magazine racks anymore either.  I personally used to hang out at certain markets and convenience stores because they had coin-op games.  No one cares about that anymore.  And I didn't even have basic cable, so entertainment was pretty hard to come by.  But Amazon and others have all but killed local bookstores and the like where I used to go after school anyway.  For that matter, a lot of people shop almost exclusively online now (for nearly everything) so there is little chance of getting them confronted with some comics in any case.

I think you will still have new collectors who think they are cool because of the art or the connections to the movies, or who were introduced to them by parents or older siblings.  They often have violence and scantily clad women, which is timeless as far as young men goes.  So in that way they have some advantages over stamps.  But I think the age of spreading comic books around corner stores and other places in the hopes of grabbing new readers is dead and it ain't coming back.

I don’t disagree with you. I don’t think kids much hang out around these places either, which has got me concerned. I have a small collection, and it’s not extremely valuable, but these concerns do stop me from investing in some serious books I might one day like to own. 

I also do believe that collectors will always exist, but if the demand is always met because the percentage of collectors continues to drop, then values plummet regardless. I guess my same concern still applies, and that I don’t have a solution for it, I just know the only people who will bother spending big bucks on books in the future, are the kids of today. They love Avengers… I hated Avengers growing up. 

On 3/11/2022 at 9:00 PM, MisterX said:

I have four kids between the ages of 12 and 18. 

I know this is anecdotal, but...

My kids and their friends enjoy the comic book movies, both Marvel and DC. 

But they read manga. 

Manga is where it's at for Gen Z. 

And I have no idea why they find manga preferable to western comic books. I've asked them, and they can't explain. Which, I think, secretly means that western comics books are essentially old-fashioned dad-stuff.

If you want to speculate, start buying first editions of Demon Slayer, One Piece, and all the others, because if Gen Z gets the urge to collect dead trees, that's what they're going to be chasing. 

 

I think you’ve really hit the point here. I’d actually be interested to see what other books they absolutely love, because you’re right, these should be the books to collect. 
Makes me want to pick up Ghost In The Shell. 
 

We have a 12 year old. Really liked Super Sons. But truthfully only reads comics because I read comics. Likes Batman, enjoys Wolverine… but I can’t tell how serious he is into them. He’s also not sentimental, so he also isn’t the type to go back and collect something from his childhood, when he already throws out the majority of his stuff now. 

[troydivision1]

Honestly, the best thing the 'industry' can do is create an app like Spotify that allows unlimited reading for a monthly premium.
It 'saved' the music industry from illegal downloads / torrents.
Make paper comics print-on-demand / limited edition collectibles direct through the studios / creators.

Records still thrive.
1st editions / limited releases still move for premiums on artist sites / discog / eBay.

[Krydel4]

On 3/11/2022 at 6:59 PM, Troy Division said:

Honestly, the best thing the 'industry' can do is create an app like Spotify that allows unlimited reading for a monthly premium.
It 'saved' the music industry from illegal downloads / torrents.
Make paper comics print-on-demand / limited edition collectibles direct through the studios / creators.

Records still thrive.
1st editions / limited releases still move for premiums on artist sites / discog / eBay.

They did. With Comixology. Then it was bought by Amazon and well it's Amazon. And the prices were the same as cover price for a hard copy and as the Amazon purchase showed the long time users, you don't really own the comics on there as a bunch of people's purchased books disappeared when Amazon joined the Comixology app with its Kindle API.

[troydivision1]

On 3/11/2022 at 10:05 PM, Krydel4 said:

They did. With Comixology. Then it was bought by Amazon and well it's Amazon. And the prices were the same as cover price for a hard copy and as the Amazon purchase showed the long time users, you don't really own the comics on there as a bunch of people's purchased books disappeared when Amazon joined the Comixology app with its Kindle API.

No, I literally mean an app that costs $14.99 a month and you read unlimited comics per month.
Not per issue.
From every publisher / creator.
Just like Spotify.
You don't 'own' the digital copy, but can order a print-to-order copy of whatever one you want at a fixed price.

The comics industry needs to acknowledge that they need to adapt or die.

2022 Federal minimum wage is $7.25/hr
Average comic book is $3.99
More than half an hour of labor

1974 Federal minimum wage was $1.60/hr
Average comic book was .25
Less than 15 minutes of labor

[Krydel4]

On 3/11/2022 at 7:36 PM, Troy Division said:

No, I literally mean an app that costs $14.99 a month and you read unlimited comics per month.
Not per issue.
From every publisher / creator.
Just like Spotify.
You don't 'own' the digital copy, but can order a print-to-order copy of whatever one you want at a fixed price.

Well, there is also Marvel Unlimited that has subscription fee using that model. Comixology also had that service until it was bought by Amazon.

https://www.marvel.com/unlimited?cid=SEM_Google_20200302_unlimited_Brand&gclid=CjwKCAiAg6yRBhBNEiwAeVyL0EIwaBy0D5axyb8TqJI4A2pG-6AXDdQcBKrVmsoMzIJXwVThE5gRXBoCnQ0QAvD_BwE

[Aman619]

I like to point out that growing up in the 59s and 60s and college in the 70s when so many people today swear comics were universally read and loved… well I knew maybe a handful of friends who read and collected comics in all that time. we were geeks. It was like a guilty pleasure, You never read them in public. Especially as you hot older. Friends and cousins laughed at you. (Not anymore though)

I believe comics collectors have always been a small group. In many ways comics popularity is much bigger now, more widespread, and way cooler. 
 

I don’t think this makes comics and collecting bulletproof, or generation proof, time will tell cause they are already 80 years old ,,, but the characters really feel like they will maintain their place in popular culture. 

[Cat]

On 3/12/2022 at 12:00 PM, MisterX said:

I have four kids between the ages of 12 and 18. 

I know this is anecdotal, but...

My kids and their friends enjoy the comic book movies, both Marvel and DC. 

But they read manga. 

Manga is where it's at for Gen Z. 

And I have no idea why they find manga preferable to western comic books. I've asked them, and they can't explain. Which, I think, secretly means that western comics books are essentially old-fashioned dad-stuff.

If you want to speculate, start buying first editions of Demon Slayer, One Piece, and all the others, because if Gen Z gets the urge to collect dead trees, that's what they're going to be chasing. 

 

What was it, manga sales were up over 160% for 2021? They're doing spectacularly well. They're perfect reads. They have a beginning and usually an endpoint. Want to get into it? No fumbling around due to 7 volume 1's to pick from, there's just the 1. Easy. 

[EastEnd1]

On 3/11/2022 at 10:59 PM, Aman619 said:

I don’t think this makes comics and collecting bulletproof, or generation proof, time will tell cause they are already 80 years old ,,, but the characters really feel like they will maintain their place in popular culture. 

Agreed... the comic book market will collapse only when the superhero itself collapses. Absent that, there will ALWAYS be superhero fans that will gravitate to the original source material.

[Coverless 9.8]

Don't worry about the industry dying!  It's just a cheap sales ploy and it'll be resurrected within three months!  

[Cat]

On 3/12/2022 at 9:13 AM, Krydel4 said:

And price really. New Digital issues should be 99 cents. The fact they are the same price as a hard copy in most cases is ridiculous. 

Could be worse. Many digital novels now cost MORE than the physical hardback. Makes no sense and is a blatant cash grab and convenience charge. 

[William-James88]

On 3/11/2022 at 9:00 PM, MisterX said:

I have four kids between the ages of 12 and 18. 

I know this is anecdotal, but...

My kids and their friends enjoy the comic book movies, both Marvel and DC. 

But they read manga. 

Manga is where it's at for Gen Z. 

And I have no idea why they find manga preferable to western comic books. I've asked them, and they can't explain. Which, I think, secretly means that western comics books are essentially old-fashioned dad-stuff.

If you want to speculate, start buying first editions of Demon Slayer, One Piece, and all the others, because if Gen Z gets the urge to collect dead trees, that's what they're going to be chasing. 

 

That's why I bought the first appearance of Allmight and Isuku Midoria (same issue). It's one I my more treasured books now even though I have no clue if it will be worth more later. These are not easy to get and condition is never great since they are just a segment of a bigger volume that often ends up in recycling bins in Japan. Tried to get the first comic for Attack on Titan and there were simply none on the market when I looked.

As for kids, my daughter who is 6 also gravitated more towards anime/manga. And I gotta say, there is a lot to love in that medium. I am envious if  anyone who has yet to watxh Attack on Titan or Full Metal Alchemist Britherhood because discovering and experiencing those stories for the first time remarkable. 

[ComicFill]

On 3/11/2022 at 5:36 PM, Troy Division said:

1974 Federal minimum wage was $1.60/hr
Average comic book was .25
Less than 15 minutes of labor

Less than 10 minutes even. Really unfortunate. But that speaks to the class system in the U.S. more than it does comic book prices.

I think the comparison that shows comic prices are high is entertainment value. You can read a comic in about 10 minutes. At $4 that is $24 per hour of entertainment. That's pretty pricey in comparison to video games, movies, tv, books, or many other forms of entertainment. Imagine if a $50 video game took only two hours to play through. Or a ticket to see The Batman was $72.

Edited March 13, 2022 by ComicFill

[Mercury Man]

On 3/11/2022 at 9:00 PM, MisterX said:

I have four kids between the ages of 12 and 18. 

I know this is anecdotal, but...

My kids and their friends enjoy the comic book movies, both Marvel and DC. 

But they read manga. 

Manga is where it's at for Gen Z. 

And I have no idea why they find manga preferable to western comic books. I've asked them, and they can't explain. Which, I think, secretly means that western comics books are essentially old-fashioned dad-stuff.

If you want to speculate, start buying first editions of Demon Slayer, One Piece, and all the others, because if Gen Z gets the urge to collect dead trees, that's what they're going to be chasing. 

 

To your point, the manga section at Barnes and Noble is huge compared to the graphic novels section.   

[FoggyNelson]

Classic stamps are still way cool 🎶👍‼️❤️

[BraveDave]

Collector markets aren’t driven by fans in the long-run but by pure collectors. To collect something doesn’t require a specific reason, just interest and means.

In car collector circles you have plenty of people who can barely drive, certainly not in a “sporting” way, and often barely know the history or tech of what they have. They DO know that other rich people collect cars and like how they look in their garage. They also learn about scarcity and, in turn, status.

Same with Watches. Rolexes are imminently collectible. Mechanical watches have been “outdated” for decades. Huge swaths of the Rolex collector market are of a generation that did not grow up wearing dress watches or watches at all. Nothing to do with collectability. 

Fine art is the same. People start collecting it partly because they can and because it conveys status, bot because they were art majors or didn’t having TVs as children…

Stamps suffer from a few issues including breadth, difficulty in cataloguing, and some crowding out. Coins too. But the highest end are holding up just fine. In fact, considering visibility, maturity of comic collecting vs these other categories, rarity (in the case of actual rare comics like AC1) and other considerations, rare comics have a far way to go (up) before looking expensive.

As for common comics selling for tens of thousands, those are at greatest risk of market cycles. Just like the truly scarce stamps, coins, cars, watches etc have held up through their own cycles, the rare segment of comic collecting may decline but likely to ride a future wave higher. Also, the decline will be limited - can you imagine many AC1 holders selling their books at half today’s prices when so few are even willing to sell AT today’s prices? Common books with thousands or tens of thousands of copies will be the market that get hit hardest when (not if) a down cycle comes.

 

[davidpg]

On 3/11/2022 at 6:13 PM, Krydel4 said:

And price really. New Digital issues should be 99 cents. The fact they are the same price as a hard copy in most cases is ridiculous. 

Agreed 100%.  I've been collecting for ober 40 years and used to read pretty much everything up until 15 years ago or so.  Stopped buying new books cold turkey.

If digital books were .99, I might delve back into reading a bit a least, though at current prices there's zero chance.

[Kromak]

I don't think the US collecting comic book market  will ever "crash". Crash means a sudden fall and I don't think it will ever happen, unless there is big crash that brings the entire US economy down. But, by its own, it won't happen. What will happen is a long and fairly steady decline. But it will not be now, still too many collectors in theirs middle 30's to middle 50's for it to happen anytime soon. All the speculation related to movies will make prices to continue to go up for quite a long time too.

However signs of this long decline already exists since a quite good time. The printing numbers of US comics are vastly inferior to what it used to be (and have been since a good time, I think). Any records about  industry profit are likely to be related to the increased price of  individual comic books and also to an increase in popularity of tpbs, manga and independent sales.

In the end, when many of the current collectors pass away or just retire of actively collecting, the prices will slowly go down. AC1, DC 27 will resist much better than 100.000 copies ASM 298, 300, 316...