C2E2 Variant Drama 25 25

[Sigur Ros]

On 8/12/2022 at 12:55 PM, wiparker824 said:

Okay but the response was this:

 

“We apologize for the short response yesterday and wanted to follow up with an explanation of our thought process behind the grade assignments. We treated them as we would any other variant cover that's attached with an extra set of staples after the book was printed, and at times these books included the original cover as well.

There is a precedent for acetate covers being attached to a printed book, and then graded by CGC. An example is Stray Dogs #1 from last year. An acetate variant cover was attached with an extra set of staples, to which CGC assigned a Universal grade and a notation of “acetate cover” on the label. The extra set of staples were part of the manufacturing process of attaching the acetate cover, and not considered a defect.”

This doesn’t imply or say anything of the sort that this was a one off. In fact they’re doubling down with justification that this is the way they’ve always done things, Nevermind the fact that Stray Dogs was not at all the same thing, but if you follow their reasoning this is business as usual and will continue.

Which is quite a bit different than the invisible comic response of this: 

 "Hey all: Bad Idea approached us at the beginning of 2020 with the idea to create and encapsulate an invisible comic as a way to showcase and promote their new book and writers. Given recent feedback, we have asked Bad Idea to cease selling them, and only use them for promotional purposes."

That response re: Bad Idea came a while after these books were announced and sold out. Give them time. 

But even if they don't say anything (which they probably won't and don't have to), do you think these grades are legit?  Of course not.   Now,  do you think they're going to put out a release admitting to it? 

But anyway,  if you think you can staple an extra cover onto your book and they'll grade it.   Good luck.   Just make sure you're OK with a 7.0, at best. 

 

[bc]

On 8/12/2022 at 1:02 PM, CGC Mike said:

We feel it is important to provide transparency on how CGC arrived at our method of certifying Clayton Crain’s Ultimate Fallout comics with the attached acetate covers. For us, this was an unprecedented item to grade. After Mr. Crain spoke with us prior to C2E2, the rules we applied to his books:

 

• The additional cover had to be created by an established artist in the industry.
• The comic to which the cover was attached had to contain a cover by that same artist.
• A copy of the comic with the attached cover had to be submitted to us for inspection prior to certifying any copies.

 

Given the recent circumstances, we have made adjustments to the labeling originally used for the Ultimate Fallout exhibiting the acetate cover. Going forward, any copies submitted to CGC will display in the label text: "In God We Intrust" Acetate Artist Cover attached with 2 staples after manufacturing. The books will still be allowed to receive a Universal label.

 

This will also apply to Mr. Crain’s forthcoming copies of Ghost Rider #1 and Deadpool Nerdy 30 #1 that contain an acetate cover.  

 

 

And any comment on the unbelievable amount of 10.0's, 9.9's & 9.8's given to this very small sample set of books with the EXACT same grade distribution across at least 3 issues?

Or is the grade simply based on the sheet of acetate and not the underlying book?

-bc

[ExNihilo]

On 8/12/2022 at 10:02 AM, CGC Mike said:

We feel it is important to provide transparency on how CGC arrived at our method of certifying Clayton Crain’s Ultimate Fallout comics with the attached acetate covers. For us, this was an unprecedented item to grade. After Mr. Crain spoke with us prior to C2E2, the rules we applied to his books:

 

• The additional cover had to be created by an established artist in the industry.
• The comic to which the cover was attached had to contain a cover by that same artist.
• A copy of the comic with the attached cover had to be submitted to us for inspection prior to certifying any copies.

 

Given the recent circumstances, we have made adjustments to the labeling originally used for the Ultimate Fallout exhibiting the acetate cover. Going forward, any copies submitted to CGC will display in the label text: "In God We Intrust" Acetate Artist Cover attached with 2 staples after manufacturing. The books will still be allowed to receive a Universal label.

 

This will also apply to Mr. Crain’s forthcoming copies of Ghost Rider #1 and Deadpool Nerdy 30 #1 that contain an acetate cover.  

 

 

How much will Liefeld charge to produce acetate covers?  I think the boards could collectively get enough for his commission fees to slap something on a bunch of $1 X-Force #1's.  Who wants in?  We can get one of the many lawyers on the boards to maybe write up a contract in exchange for a percentage of earnings.  

 

Also, any update from Boston?  It's 1pm there, Expo's gotta be in full swing yeah?  Or is it a weekend Expo only?

[Gary Strange]

On 8/12/2022 at 12:09 PM, billsid said:

Because it's total BS.

Yeah, but I'd like to hear how they say it.

[Phill the Governor]

On 8/12/2022 at 11:48 AM, Dr. Balls said:

I think the biggest curiosity is that the monetary payout for undertaking pay-for-grades wasn't really that high.

Unless...

This is something that happens so frequently, it's considered policy to sell grades - to which an episode like this is only brought to light because they got caught. I mean, a few thousand dollars in the pocket of a multi-million dollar company for these C2E2 books is not worth the risk - unless it's not a risk, but normal operation.

At a previous job I had in the industry (for one of the auction houses/online retailers mind you) etc I saw with my own eyes high-end walkthrough books with post it notes included on the submission form stating things like "book is a 8.0, give me a call if there are any issues". Funny enough, the books always came back with the "requested" grade. This has been going on for a long time.

[Bob Sacamano]

On 8/12/2022 at 12:02 PM, CGC Mike said:

We feel it is important to provide transparency on how CGC arrived at our method of certifying Clayton Crain’s Ultimate Fallout comics with the attached acetate covers. For us, this was an unprecedented item to grade. After Mr. Crain spoke with us prior to C2E2, the rules we applied to his books:

 

• The additional cover had to be created by an established artist in the industry.
• The comic to which the cover was attached had to contain a cover by that same artist.
• A copy of the comic with the attached cover had to be submitted to us for inspection prior to certifying any copies.

 

Given the recent circumstances, we have made adjustments to the labeling originally used for the Ultimate Fallout exhibiting the acetate cover. Going forward, any copies submitted to CGC will display in the label text: "In God We Intrust" Acetate Artist Cover attached with 2 staples after manufacturing. The books will still be allowed to receive a Universal label.

 

This will also apply to Mr. Crain’s forthcoming copies of Ghost Rider #1 and Deadpool Nerdy 30 #1 that contain an acetate cover.  

 

 

Why do this?  It’s arbitrary.  Also your publisher and publication date is incorrect.

[A. Schaeffer]

On 8/12/2022 at 1:10 PM, ExNihilo said:

How much will Liefeld charge to produce acetate covers?  I think the boards could collectively get enough for his commission fees to slap something on a bunch of $1 X-Force #1's.  Who wants in?  We can get one of the many lawyers on the boards to maybe write up a contract in exchange for a percentage of earnings.  

 

You might have missed the third bullet point 

On 8/12/2022 at 1:10 PM, ExNihilo said:

- A copy of the comic with the attached cover had to be submitted to us for inspection prior to certifying any copies.

That's the out for anyone else to try this and get rejected/NG. 

[bc]

On 8/12/2022 at 1:10 PM, ExNihilo said:

How much will Liefeld charge to produce acetate covers?  I think the boards could collectively get enough for his commission fees to slap something on a bunch of $1 X-Force #1's.  Who wants in?  We can get one of the many lawyers on the boards to maybe write up a contract in exchange for a percentage of earnings.  

 

Also, any update from Boston?  It's 1pm there, Expo's gotta be in full swing yeah?  Or is it a weekend Expo only?

Now that CGC has laid out the 3 criteria, if they don't allow it, our lawyer(s) could slap them with a discriminatory business lawsuit.

-bc

[NewWorldOrder]

The best technological advances of social media is that it gave everyone a voice to be heard. 

The worst technological advances of social media is that I now have to hear their terrible opinions. 

The consolation prize is now all of you have to hear mine as well! 

Edited August 12, 2022 by NewWorldOrder

[Dr. Balls]

On 8/12/2022 at 10:50 AM, Bob Sacamano said:

I thought someone posted an image of their booth.  Maybe it’s still just an empty booth.  If they were smart they wouldn’t show.  If they decline to sell the new books it would make it easier for CGC to change their stance.

Man, eating the cost of that booth? I’d be surprised given the stance that the owner of Black Whatever thinks his books are “dope” and “makes people money”. Those people tend to not have things like this bother them.

Edited August 12, 2022 by Dr. Balls

[jaybuck43]

On 8/12/2022 at 1:02 PM, CGC Mike said:

We feel it is important to provide transparency on how CGC arrived at our method of certifying Clayton Crain’s Ultimate Fallout comics with the attached acetate covers. For us, this was an unprecedented item to grade. After Mr. Crain spoke with us prior to C2E2, the rules we applied to his books:

 

• The additional cover had to be created by an established artist in the industry.
• The comic to which the cover was attached had to contain a cover by that same artist.
• A copy of the comic with the attached cover had to be submitted to us for inspection prior to certifying any copies.

 

Given the recent circumstances, we have made adjustments to the labeling originally used for the Ultimate Fallout exhibiting the acetate cover. Going forward, any copies submitted to CGC will display in the label text: "In God We Intrust" Acetate Artist Cover attached with 2 staples after manufacturing. The books will still be allowed to receive a Universal label.

 

This will also apply to Mr. Crain’s forthcoming copies of Ghost Rider #1 and Deadpool Nerdy 30 #1 that contain an acetate cover.  

 

 

How were the books graded? Was the acetate graded as the cover and the actual cover considered a page and therefore ignored finger bends/spin ticks etc?  Very hard to understand how thousands of submissions  from fans never rated anything higher than a 9.8 but magically the seller/creator works out with you guys to encapsulate these books and their submission of 10 books all come back the same with 1 10 3 9.9s and 6 9.8s (since the books haven’t even gone on sale yet only black flag has them in their possession to submit them to you) 40% of their submission is better than 9.8 when not a single book prior has every graded higher. Really suspect.

[jcjames]

So... as long as it's the original artist who tears the book in half and then restaples the book back together... all is good because it's the original artist damaging the original book? CGC will just ignore the damage done to it? 

BULLSCHLITT!! 

 

ETA: I have a ASM1 that the front cover was torn by Stan Lee, the writer of that book, during a CGC SS signing - and it was downgraded because of that damage. 

So again... BULLSCHLITT to you CGC! 

 

 

Edited August 12, 2022 by jcjames

[Sigur Ros]

On 8/12/2022 at 1:02 PM, CGC Mike said:

We feel it is important to provide transparency on how CGC arrived at our method of certifying Clayton Crain’s Ultimate Fallout comics with the attached acetate covers. For us, this was an unprecedented item to grade. After Mr. Crain spoke with us prior to C2E2, the rules we applied to his books:

 

• The additional cover had to be created by an established artist in the industry.
• The comic to which the cover was attached had to contain a cover by that same artist.
• A copy of the comic with the attached cover had to be submitted to us for inspection prior to certifying any copies.

 

Given the recent circumstances, we have made adjustments to the labeling originally used for the Ultimate Fallout exhibiting the acetate cover. Going forward, any copies submitted to CGC will display in the label text: "In God We Intrust" Acetate Artist Cover attached with 2 staples after manufacturing. The books will still be allowed to receive a Universal label.

 

This will also apply to Mr. Crain’s forthcoming copies of Ghost Rider #1 and Deadpool Nerdy 30 #1 that contain an acetate cover.  

 

 

Ok.  So they came up with something. 

Now,  why the special treatment on the grades? 

[Buzzetta]

On 8/12/2022 at 1:02 PM, CGC Mike said:

We feel it is important to provide transparency on how CGC arrived at our method of certifying Clayton Crain’s Ultimate Fallout comics with the attached acetate covers. For us, this was an unprecedented item to grade. After Mr. Crain spoke with us prior to C2E2, the rules we applied to his books:

 

• The additional cover had to be created by an established artist in the industry.
• The comic to which the cover was attached had to contain a cover by that same artist.
• A copy of the comic with the attached cover had to be submitted to us for inspection prior to certifying any copies.

 

Given the recent circumstances, we have made adjustments to the labeling originally used for the Ultimate Fallout exhibiting the acetate cover. Going forward, any copies submitted to CGC will display in the label text: "In God We Intrust" Acetate Artist Cover attached with 2 staples after manufacturing. The books will still be allowed to receive a Universal label.

 

This will also apply to Mr. Crain’s forthcoming copies of Ghost Rider #1 and Deadpool Nerdy 30 #1 that contain an acetate cover.  

 

 

It's still a bootleg comic book.   I can have an artist that worked on a book create a 1:1 variant by doing something similar this fall.  

 

[jaxcomics]

On 8/12/2022 at 1:02 PM, CGC Mike said:

We feel it is important to provide transparency on how CGC arrived at our method of certifying Clayton Crain’s Ultimate Fallout comics with the attached acetate covers. For us, this was an unprecedented item to grade. After Mr. Crain spoke with us prior to C2E2, the rules we applied to his books:

 

• The additional cover had to be created by an established artist in the industry.
• The comic to which the cover was attached had to contain a cover by that same artist.
• A copy of the comic with the attached cover had to be submitted to us for inspection prior to certifying any copies.

 

Given the recent circumstances, we have made adjustments to the labeling originally used for the Ultimate Fallout exhibiting the acetate cover. Going forward, any copies submitted to CGC will display in the label text: "In God We Intrust" Acetate Artist Cover attached with 2 staples after manufacturing. The books will still be allowed to receive a Universal label.

 

This will also apply to Mr. Crain’s forthcoming copies of Ghost Rider #1 and Deadpool Nerdy 30 #1 that contain an acetate cover.  

 

 

So basically "This sounded like a great way to make money for everyone involved, so we made up some somewhat arbitrary rules to apply to this book to validate our grading it with a blue label. These rules may or may not have actually been in effect when we graded the book, but they sound good now and you can't prove otherwise so please move along". 

 

Edited August 12, 2022 by jaxcomics

[Prince Namor]

On 8/12/2022 at 1:15 PM, Dr. Balls said:

Man, eating the cost of that booth? I’d be surprised given the stance that the owner of Black Whatever thinks his books are “dope” and “makes people money”. Those people tend to not have things like this bother them.

It is kinda cool that the word 'dope' has come full circle through the years to again mean something that's 'stupid'.

[A. Schaeffer]

I'm actually interested to see if they step it up and put a character they own on the overlay of a marvel book. Maybe they also talked to Disney ahead of time?

I don't know why I'm getting shades of a decade of looney tunes characters dressed as Kriss Kross on airbrushed t shirts. 

[Axelrod]

On 8/12/2022 at 1:08 PM, Gary Strange said:

Ok, but how did this net so many 9.9s and a 10??

You are going to get radio silence on this one.  

Maybe, I mean maybe, they will go back to their very first response: "We stand by our grades."  But that will be all.

They can never admit pay-for-grades. Never. Or even, we-give-"prominent-collectors-in-the-community"-special-treatment....

[eddly]

If the original artist does minor colour touch on a cover, years after the comic was published (for a single copy of the comic), is that still restoration?

[NewWorldOrder]

"Geooorge, I am gunna do a YouTube video about the puuuurty plastic cover, and C2E2."

"