Modern Grading Is Broken...Im done. 6 6

[NumminzAK]

I’ve sent orders in the past that got a decent amount of cgc 9.8 for modern books. I paid for a third party presser for books that looked perfect in

the first place...my latest order didn’t have a single 9.8 out

of 25 books...and several got hit down to 8.5 for « light finger prints » with no other issues. My presser wears gloves and does great work and was responsible for a 24/25 9.8 submission in the past...there is just no way this is correct. My take is cgc has a bunch of untrained staff doing sloppy work. Here I sit with no recourse...cgc takes no

blame. I’m done with this company.

Edited August 26, 2022 by NumminzAK

[mattn792]

A book getting tattooed solely for fingerprints is nothing new, it happened to me several years ago.  Perfect 9.8 looking book, but with fingerprint marks that I didn't see until after grading.  Result -- 8.5

Not to say CGC is doing a great job right now by any means, but they probably aren't all screw ups.

[OJ Pimpson]

Who knows what happened. Maybe it was grading by CGC. Maybe someone at CGC put prints on these books. However it seems like a possible explanation is that your presser failed to wear gloves on this last batch of books

[sd2416]

Graders notes for the drek > 9.8's?

[KirbyTown]

On 8/26/2022 at 12:57 PM, NumminzAK said:

I’ve sent orders in the past that got a decent amount of cgc 9.8 for modern books. I paid for a third party presser for books that looked perfect in

the first place...my latest order didn’t have a single 9.8 out

of 25 books...and several got hit down to 8.5 for « light finger prints » with no other issues. My presser wears gloves and does great work and was responsible for a 24/25 9.8 submission in the past...there is just no way this is correct. My take is cgc has a bunch of untrained staff doing sloppy work. Here I sit with no recourse...cgc takes no

blame. I’m done with this company.

Light fingerprints has been a thing. You may want to PM your order information to @CGC Mike so that he can include it with the other fingerprint complaints to QC.

[Key Largo Comics]

Very happy with the grades on my last two modern submissions.

For the most part the books I expected to come back 9.8 did so.

A couple came back 9.6 but a couple that I thought were 9.4 or 9.6 came back 9.8 so no complaints here.

[Poka]

On 8/27/2022 at 6:15 PM, Key Largo Comics said:

Very happy with the grades on my last two modern submissions.

For the most part the books I expected to come back 9.8 did so.

A couple came back 9.6 but a couple that I thought were 9.4 or 9.6 came back 9.8 so no complaints here.

Problem is that the modern grading for each shipment is quite inconsistent. I have shipments where majority gets 9.8 and shipments where just a few gets 9.8. Books are similar 

Edited August 27, 2022 by Poka

[marvelmaniac]

You need one of these, I bought one when my Grandson's wanted me to sell their Pokémon/Sports Cards for them so I could grade properly, yes they all sold.

https://www.amazon.com/Magnifier-AFUNTA-Magnifying-Diamonds-Antiques/dp/B0736XSM56?th=1

[Gaard]

"Problem is that the modern grading for each shipment is quite inconsistent."

It's become obvious, to me anyway, that there is a very real problem here with these 'phantom flaws'. I use the term 'phantom flaws' to describe 2 things ... flaws that weren't there when CGC received the comics, and flaws that aren't there at all - it seems that, in some cases, graders are simply putting down flaws in the notes that do not exist. Do to the fact that these 'phantom flaws' are in the notes, we can rule out any steps after the grading when trying to determine where they came from.

Lots of questions (areas for CGC to look at) ...

- I don't recall hearing these concerns about other tiers. Does this mean that we can rule out mishandling by the receivers?

- The graders themselves. I've heard over and over again that certain graders do certain tiered books. This makes me think that one (or more) of their rookie Modern graders is the culprit. Could a particular grader(s) not be handling the comics  with the necessary care that is needed? (especially when counting pages)

- Should we take the word 'particular' out of the above sentence? Although this would be highly unacceptable for them, could each grader be prone to having days where they show up to work with a cavalier attitude?

- What about between the receiver and grader ... is there another step/employee who brings the books to the grader? I honestly don't know.

- This is a question that could be easy to answer or could be difficult to answer ... are all (most) of these 'phantom flaws' on books that have been pressed? By who? Another mishandling possibility.

- This would be the very worst possibility. Is it possible that grader(s) are trying to make themselves look like very good graders by listing flaws that aren't there?

- I've asked this before without receiving an answer. Is it at all possible to tell which grader graded which comic? (by possibly using the certification number) This would help immensely.

 

Since the start of 3rd party grading, there's been customers who've been unhappy with the grades they've received. In the past few months however, it seems to have grown into a very big issue that CGC shouldn't just shrug off.

 

Another thought that might have bearing ...

I'm assuming CGC employees get evaluated...monthly, quarterly, annually, I don't know - the frequency doesn't matter. When a grader is evaluated, does their supervisor know how many of each grade he/she has given for that period of time? Or a list detailing what notes, and how many, have been given?

 

[Stefan_W]

Some graders are tougher than others. They are human so I can accept that. I can also accept that I may sometimes think a book is a higher grade than it actually is.

The only thing that really grinds me is when a grader makes a note of "moderate staining" to a book where the image on the inside of a cover shows through to the outside. I had a couple of books where that happened, most recently an ASM 315. The book, which was a 9.6 all the way, was dropped all the way down to an 8.5 for this phantom flaw. cracked the slab and saw that there was no actual staining and I was simply out the cost of grading with no recourse. I also double checked images of existing 9.8 copies of that book and they pretty much all have the inside cover showing through on the white of the outside cover, so I know some graders know how to grade this book accurately. 

I know changes can be tough with a lot of graders employed by CGC, but I would be really REALLY happy if a memo or something like that went out to check to see if it is actual staining before knocking the grade down and leaving a note saying a book is stained. Assuming learning is continual this type of approach should be doable to prevent more of the same error in the future. 

Edited August 27, 2022 by Stefan_W

[Buzzetta]

I still truly believe that CGC had an accident with a certain book out of my final submission.   No way to prove it.  No recourse to take.  It is what it is.  The original slab did not denote any issue with the staples.  The new notes indicated that there was a loose staple.  

Funny, there never was a loose staple when it was in my hands. 

Book is still worth far more than what I paid.  But it could have been worth more. 

[lostboys]

CGC has been fair with me overall.

Recently though, I sent in a modern book for pressing before grading because it had a couple very light spine bends.

It came back a 9.4 but the very light spine bends were now deep spine bends.

Somehow they got worse after a press.

[Dr. Balls]

On 8/26/2022 at 11:57 AM, NumminzAK said:

My take is cgc has a bunch of untrained staff doing sloppy work.

I won’t speak for CGC, but this is pretty much the current state of everything everywhere. I am an employer and can tell you that we experience this, and so does every other employer I speak with across many different kinds of employment.

I have zero doubt that they are experiencing the same problems trying to add barely-trainable employees to an already-struggling workforce that is buried with work.

At the risk of sounding like a 49-year old fogey, I will say here what I say to everyone I talk to who complains about this problem:

”It’s the millennials world now - this is how they want it to run. We just live in it.”

[Buzzetta]

On 8/27/2022 at 12:33 PM, Dr. Balls said:

I won’t speak for CGC, but this is pretty much the current state of everything everywhere. I am an employer and can tell you that we experience this, and so does every other employer I speak with across many different kinds of employment.

I have zero doubt that they are experiencing the same problems trying to add barely-trainable employees to an already-struggling workforce that is buried with work.

At the risk of sounding like a 49-year old fogey, I will say here what I say to everyone I talk to who complains about this problem:

”It’s the millennials world now - this is how they want it to run. We just live in it.”

This was during my college years. 

A friend of mine also had a job there and when his parents would go away he and his sister would wave goodbye at the driveway and then start spreading the word that there was to be a party.  Now this is this mid 90's so there is no social media, yet word would go around the department store we all worked at and the mall.  Cars would be four deep on the street.   The next day the department store could not open.  There was no one but a skeleton crew and it was not enough.  Human resources kind of knew what was up and called my friend's house to ask him to wake up the store manager who was sleeping on the couch from the night before to get everyone up to go to work.  

A few times we took a dinner by leaving early, taking a train three towns away to go to a concert hall for their happy hour which had a free carving station and the pasta and wings and sometimes even seafood.  We would do dinner there, get stamped, go back to work a lil sloppy right before close, cash out and then everyone would go out for the evening and back to the concert hall for free since we were stamped.  There were no store employees I guess because we were all out. 

I have too many stories to tell from this time period of labor.  

I think the only thing that has really changed drastically is that social media allows for all of this stuff to be more widely known.    Back then we were able to kind of keep it a little more hush hush.  If someone came into the store, they did not have the ability to take pictures to show that no one was there.  They looked and got frustrated and left. 

 

I don't want to tag him but a certain board member that joined these boards back in 2002 knows what I am talking about as I am pretty sure he was with us a few times. 

Edited August 27, 2022 by Buzzetta

[Dr. Balls]

On 8/27/2022 at 12:40 PM, Buzzetta said:

 

I think the only thing that has really changed drastically is that social media allows for all of this stuff to be more widely known.

I would definitely agree: 20-something’s who like to party and shirk responsibility is human nature, and will never change. But it’s something different now - that age group in the 90s still had an underlying goal of getting somewhere in life - and to get there, they needed to pick up their feet and move. Moving being, getting experience, making money, etc.

It’s not taboo anymore to not have a job. Or a goal. Or direction. No one expects young people to have it all figured out, but it’s pretty universal that the older generations know that you’ll never figure anything out standing in one place. I think therein lies the pushback from the Xers and Boomers.

And back then (the 90’s) you had kids working at age 16 and learning what it’s like to work with other people, take orders from superiors and take pride in earning money. Those things seem repulsive to a large slice of this generation. And I’m not speculating, I’m talking from experience with a great many people - we have a restaurant: one of the most popular places for getting your first job. It’s practically impossible to hire anyone under the age of 24 because they have less life experience than a 17 year old from 20-30 years ago. Pretty shocking and saddening at the same time.

When my wife’s 20 year old son would complain about working, we would (somewhat) jokingly explain that 80 years ago kids his age were sent to kill Nazis, and we’re sure he’ll get through the shift washing dishes.

Your partying friends probably went to work just like normal when their parents got home, and a few days after the party - the store manager probably wasn’t late again until the next party. Nowadays, it’s party every day and who cares if I ever show up again. It’s the Have Fun culture- but they’ve rechristened it as a lifestyle, and everyone around them supports it with lax expectations, over-the-top Instagram posts and TikTok videos.

Oh, and 

Edited August 27, 2022 by Dr. Balls

[MAR1979]

On 8/27/2022 at 2:57 PM, Dr. Balls said:

It’s the Have Fun culture- but they’ve rechristened it as a lifestyle, and everyone around them supports it with lax expectations

 

Makes me wish I was part of that generation perhaps I'd be a lot less grumpy? Although it would also most certainly be with much less original comic art...

Edited August 27, 2022 by MAR1979

[Dr. Balls]

On 8/27/2022 at 1:06 PM, MAR1979 said:

Makes me wish I was part of that generation perhaps I'd be a lot less grumpy? Although it would also most certainly be with much less original comic art...

Exactly.

And since we’re talking about that, who the hell is going to buy my comic collection if we have a whole generation of non-fungible collecting paupers with no money! 

[Dr. Balls]

Circling back around, I didn’t mean for me to get wrapped up in the philosophical part of this from my perspective.

So CGC is forced to hire a workforce that doesn’t have the same trainable skills as previous generations - so things are going to get missed. And in order for them to retain that workforce, standards have to be lowered because said workforce doesn’t like criticism or disciplinary action. It’s the erosion of our society across everything we have, from restaurants to grading services. And who knows if it ever gets corrected.

[Tnexus]

On 8/27/2022 at 9:33 AM, Dr. Balls said:

I won’t speak for CGC, but this is pretty much the current state of everything everywhere. I am an employer and can tell you that we experience this, and so does every other employer I speak with across many different kinds of employment.

I have zero doubt that they are experiencing the same problems trying to add barely-trainable employees to an already-struggling workforce that is buried with work.

At the risk of sounding like a 49-year old fogey, I will say here what I say to everyone I talk to who complains about this problem:

”It’s the millennials world now - this is how they want it to run. We just live in it.”

I hate when people say this garbage. There's not a labor problem in this country, there's a wages problem. If you pay garbage wages, you're going to get garbage employees.

A full time CGC submission specialist makes $15-$17 an hour based on the CGC job listing. That's about $2350 a month minus taxes (approximate). A 1 bedroom apartment costs about $1300 a month in Fort Lauderdale. That's 54% of living expenses just in rent alone. That doesn't include school, food, gas, phone, bills, outings, family, etc. CGC can pull in almost $1000 alone with just one 25 modern FT submission that takes what? maybe three to four hours of total labor from start to finish?

So yeah, I wouldn't care either if I was being paid like that.

(Apologies for the tangent, now back to our scheduled post.)

Edited August 27, 2022 by Tnexus

[Upgrayedd2]

So many valid points made in this topic. 

I wonder if an employee's throughput is tied to their pay. If it's anything like working at Amazon, then I can see why so many comes return with finger bends.

And (I am a broken record on this topic), all grading companies must be required to submit grader notes. There is no valid argument for anything below a 9.8.