What's the most over-hyped/over-priced comic in your opinion? 3 3

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 12/1/2022 at 9:47 AM, ThothAmon said:

Are you saying I’m Satan or are you signing your post?

I could be Satan and you could be Craeteis.

[wardevil0]

On 12/1/2022 at 9:07 AM, ThothAmon said:

I disagree. The Previews often have an original cover by the artist that makes excellent fodder for Signature Series. Plus the best collectibles are rarely considered collectible when collected or something like that. 

 

 

I think my main disagreement lies in the scale.  I have a few copies of Previews and Amazing Heroes etc that I'd like to get Sig Series, but the idea of paying $2k+ for one of these items, as referenced earlier, seems over-hyped and over-priced.

 

[jdandns]

On 12/1/2022 at 4:04 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

It's a Previews magazine that's being touted by flippers as a "first appearance". It's snake oil, fool's gold. People buy NFTs, too. This is simply a very bad argument.

I'm not arguing. I'm relating what happened with this book that was in my garage, unbagged, flat in a Diamond Previews box for almost a decade.

I have no opinion on others who would collect it for "collectability" sake.

Like you, I wouldn't collect this issue or any other from the several hundred issue run of the monthly Marvel pre-order catalog for that reason.

That said, I consider certain issues of Marvel Age essential to my collection.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 12/1/2022 at 11:38 AM, jdandns said:

I'm not arguing. I'm relating what happened with this book that was in my garage, unbagged, flat in a Diamond Previews box for almost a decade.

I have no opinion on others who would collect it for "collectability" sake.

Like you, I wouldn't collect this issue or any other from the several hundred issue run of the monthly Marvel pre-order catalog for that reason.

That said, I consider certain issues of Marvel Age essential to my collection.

Then you lied in your prior response when you started off with, "No".

[Lazyboy]

On 12/1/2022 at 4:35 AM, wardevil0 said:

but often now a comic can be considered a key because the price has already skyrocketed without regard to the significance.

Only by insufficiently_thoughtful_persons who don't understand the meaning of the word.

Price does not make keys. Period.

[D2]

If collectors want to continue the never ending debates on comic character first appearances in comics, like Wolverine in Hulk 180 or 181… that’s all great in my books.

Preview books are just toxic hoarder collector mentality with skewed purchasing habits looking for something to capitalize on, screw with the market on, and/or just inadvertently abuse the system. 
 

Simple as that. 
 

If a new reader was to ask “I want to read… whichever character, where can I start?”

The reply should never be “well in Wizard Magazine #64, page 28, you’ll see an article written about this creator who is talking about this creation they are working on…”

Collect it all you want, it’s not a first appearance. 

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 12/1/2022 at 2:56 PM, D2 said:

If collectors want to continue the never ending debates on comic character first appearances in comics, like Wolverine in Hulk 180 or 181… that’s all great in my books.

Preview books are just toxic hoarder collector mentality with skewed purchasing habits looking for something to capitalize on, screw with the market on, and/or just inadvertently abuse the system. 
 

Simple as that. 
 

If a new reader was to ask “I want to read… whichever character, where can I start?”

The reply should never be “well in Wizard Magazine #64, page 28, you’ll see an article written about this creator who is talking about this creation they are working on…”

Collect it all you want, it’s not a first appearance. 

It may not be an actual 1st appearance by traditional standards, but it’s still the 1st mention/ 1st look at a specific character.    Lots of those in the Marvel Age series.  Going back further....the Comic Reader fanzine has a bunch of those type of things too.  Just a preview, but there’s no arguing that this is the 1st time collectors could have got a look at the upcoming introduction of the Punisher:

 

 

[batmiesta]

On 11/30/2022 at 6:30 AM, D84 said:

Any newsstand edition.

Yeah! I don't understand the newstand craze.

[lostboys]

On 12/1/2022 at 2:56 PM, D2 said:

If collectors want to continue the never ending debates on comic character first appearances in comics, like Wolverine in Hulk 180 or 181… that’s all great in my books.

Preview books are just toxic hoarder collector mentality with skewed purchasing habits looking for something to capitalize on, screw with the market on, and/or just inadvertently abuse the system. 
 

Simple as that. 
 

If a new reader was to ask “I want to read… whichever character, where can I start?”

The reply should never be “well in Wizard Magazine #64, page 28, you’ll see an article written about this creator who is talking about this creation they are working on…”

Collect it all you want, it’s not a first appearance. 

Im curious how you feel about Savage Dragon 102 with the Invincible preview.

[Dr. Balls]

On 12/1/2022 at 1:36 PM, batmiesta said:

Yeah! I don't understand the newstand craze.

I've softened a bit on the newsstand thing, because I started looking at the numbers. I don't think it's a major collecting requirement for myself, but - like baseball statistics - I can see how people have fun with the numbers. Or even trying to search out the numbers of how many newsstands of one particular book there is.

A recent example I read (easily found on Google) was that based on Eric Larsen's statements, when they ended newsstand distribution on Savage Dragon #30, the numbers indicate there were only 500 copies out of the 30,000+ copies printed. I now can see how someone might look at that as a unique version of the regular issue. Factor in the odds of that thing retaining high grade status being on an actual newsstand or grocery store, and it might become fun to hunt for - and let's face it, no matter what comics you collect, we can all agree that the chase is sometimes better than the catch.

Does it command a premium? Maybe with a small select group, and that's for the market to decide, I suppose.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Dr. Balls

[D2]

On 12/1/2022 at 3:12 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

It may not be an actual 1st appearance by traditional standards, but it’s still the 1st mention/ 1st look at a specific character.    Lots of those in the Marvel Age series.  Going back further....the Comic Reader fanzine has a bunch of those type of things too.  Just a preview, but there’s no arguing that this is the 1st time collectors could have got a look at the upcoming introduction of the Punisher:

 

 

It’s definitely cool. 
 

It’s not that I don’t find them interesting, and they are great for enthusiasts, but speculators and flippers have really pushed hard with social media, this incessant need to collect this! And collect that! Which, I think ruins the longevity of a good, upcoming collector. 

And preview books are at the forefront of that.

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 12/1/2022 at 4:53 PM, D2 said:

It’s definitely cool. 
 

It’s not that I don’t find them interesting, and they are great for enthusiasts, but speculators and flippers have really pushed hard with social media, this incessant need to collect this! And collect that! Which, I think ruins the longevity of a good, upcoming collector. 

And preview books are at the forefront of that.

 

Thankfully as the market cools....the “influencers” begin to fade away.

[mephistopheles]

Looks like the Eminem Spiderman pre-order deserves a dishonorable mention in this thread.

 

[D2]

On 12/1/2022 at 5:01 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Thankfully as the market cools....the “influencers” begin to fade away.

I hope so. I really do, because influencers don’t talk about the whole purpose of comic books in the first place. 

To read them. 

If someone is collecting comic books and hasn’t read them, then how can anyone expect them to stick around. 

[jdandns]

On 12/1/2022 at 8:43 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Then you lied in your prior response when you started off with, "No".

Another opinion.

[Lazyboy]

On 12/1/2022 at 2:44 PM, Dr. Balls said:

I've softened a bit on the newsstand thing, because I started looking at the numbers.

What numbers?

On 12/1/2022 at 2:44 PM, Dr. Balls said:

A recent example I read (easily found on Google) was that based on Eric Larsen's statements, when they ended newsstand distribution on Savage Dragon #30, the numbers indicate there were only 500 copies out of the 30,000+ copies printed.

Oh, the fake, literally unbelievable numbers from liars and insufficiently_thoughtful_persons.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Lazyboy

[jdandns]

On 12/1/2022 at 2:35 AM, wardevil0 said:

But this is exactly what a lot of us are afraid of when it comes to "overhyped and overpriced" being bad for the hobby at large.  It only takes a few sales for something to be expensive because it's expensive.  People (speculators, investors, influencers) see a high price paid by a few individuals and propagate that high price throughout the market.  For most major keys, the reasoning for its value lies in its contents (first appearance, iconic cover, death of a character, etc) but for some of these "overhyped" candidates the value lies only in its previous perceived value. This is expressed as Goodhart's Law: when a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.  The measure of a key used to be the significance of the issue which was reflected by the steadily climbing aftermarket price as more fans wanted the issue, but often now a comic can be considered a key because the price has already skyrocketed without regard to the significance.  This is why people have to use KeyCollector or GoCollect or whatever to tell them which modern books are rising in price; otherwise there's no real way to know.  

Those of us who collected through the 90s should understand this.  Gimmick covers (with higher cover prices to inflate the revenue), first issues of new derivative series (that often were also gimmick covers like Punisher War Zone, Force Works, Silver Sable...), overextended events (Clone Saga, X-Cutioner's Song...), multiple monthly price guides who each had to try to outdo each other with their own "hot 10" list (Wizard, Hero Illustrated, Comic Values Monthly, Overstreet Fan...), and new universes emerging fully formed without natural development (Ultraverse, Comic's Greatest World, Triumphant Universe, Tekno Comics...) pumped up the bubble until it burst.  It's basically a Ponzi scheme that eventually leaves someone holding the bag, and that someone will likely have a lot of unsellable copies of modern variants, non-continuity preview appearances, and independent series believed to be "the next Walking dead."

 

Good stuff.

I collected prior to, through, and beyond the gimmick era, and generally saw them for what they were, which is what you described, but I still bought some of them. I have a soft spot for glow-in-the-dark covers to this day. I  learned pretty early on (admittedly, in part because I couldn't afford to get everything) to buy only the stuff I saw something good in (usually following artists and writers I liked as opposed to to trying to get every title featuring specific characters or from certain comic companies), so I never ended up with a bunch of copies of stuff that I then had to try to foist on to someone else. Each collector/speculator/investor has to learn to do their own due diligence, and sometimes that's a hard lesson. Part of mine is that even though I have thousands and thousands of comic books, to this day, I've never purchased a single one because someone online suggested I do so. And I'm far enough along at this point that I can't imagine there will ever come a day when I am influenced by someone on the internet (with their own possibly hidden motivations) to purchase something I wouldn't have bought on my own.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 12/1/2022 at 6:12 PM, jdandns said:

Another opinion.

Not an opinion, though.

[Ken Aldred]

On 12/1/2022 at 11:58 PM, jdandns said:

Each collector/speculator/investor has to learn to do their own due diligence, and sometimes that's a hard lesson

Certainly to me it seemed that a few years ago we'd have a discussion here about a certain character that hadn't yet been speculated on significantly for the movies, and then pretty much immediately you'd see copies being snapped up and prices rising.  Our knowledge, expertise and experience accumulated over decades being used as a short cut for the new generation. Maybe it worked out for them, maybe they got crushed by a painful lesson.

[whetteon]

Umm. Spider-Man #300 Chromium?  Really? A REPRINT that people seem to want to pay out the butt for...