What's the most over-hyped/over-priced comic in your opinion? 3 3

[D2]

@Stefan_W I agree with your H181 assessment. I've said the same thing for years. And it's truly coming from a place of someone who wants it... and further to @Robot Man point, the art is HORRIBLE. The story is painful, and the only reason it's relevant is because years later they took a character and completely changed him.

I also felt the same way with many books. I genuinely don't understand comic collecting. I just collect things that I find are timeless reads. Obviously I have odd books that break this rule, but a tried and true book, The X-Men... I've read GSX, I've read Claremont's run. It's all borderline unreadable. I really wanted to cry reading GSX. I truly love DOFP, 141, and 142. Outside of those 2 issues, the rest of it is very difficult to read, including The Dark Phoenix Saga. It's all seemed to have aged poorly.

Books I find still hold up today... The Dark Knight Returns, V for Vendetta, Watchmen... I'd love to hear, I know this is off topic, but reads that people believe have aged well, considering... and could be rendered in the 'timeless' category.

Edited November 28, 2022 by D2

[mephistopheles]

On 11/28/2022 at 2:55 PM, D2 said:

I'd love to hear, I know this is off topic, but reads that people believe have aged well, considering... and could be rendered in the 'timeless' category.

The Killing Joke

[PeterPark]

On 11/27/2022 at 4:28 PM, godzilla43 said:

Maybe 2nd and 3rd print but TMNT 1 1st print is a huge book. Spider-man, Dragon Ball, Nintendo, Turtles..

2nd print is almost as rare as the 1st...3rd print is common

[Ken Aldred]

On 11/28/2022 at 6:55 PM, D2 said:

but a tried and true book, The X-Men... I've read GSX, I've read Claremont's run. It's all borderline unreadable. I really wanted to cry reading GSX. I truly love DOFP, 141, and 142. Outside of those 2 issues, the rest of it is very difficult to read, including The Dark Phoenix Saga. It's all seemed to have aged poorly.

I still like Claremont’s writing even 40 years on from first reading it as a kid in the 70s, but yes, it is of its time and very different to Modern  decompressed techniques. Tons of exposition that could be handed over to the artist to illustrate instead of the huge dialogue boxes, purple prose, but typical for the Bronze Age. A very different balance to the writer - artist partnership when compared to today’s.

I’m fairly liberal when it comes to writing style, though, liking a bit of variety as I do with art styles from different Ages.

Several who read it more recently described Claremont’s style as a bit dry, cold, detached-sounding, but for me it’ll always feel like a childhood classic, especially the John Byrne material.

Edited November 28, 2022 by Ken Aldred

[Ken Aldred]

On 11/28/2022 at 6:55 PM, D2 said:

@Stefan_W I agree with your H181 assessment. I've said the same thing for years. And it's truly coming from a place of someone who wants it... and further to @Robot Man point, the art is HORRIBLE. The story is painful, and the only reason it's relevant is because years later they took a character and completely changed him

Incredible to think that Wolverine was intended to be a throwaway character, just another opponent for Hulk.

An amazing ascent from basically next to nothing.

Edited November 28, 2022 by Ken Aldred

[Ryan.]

On 11/28/2022 at 12:45 PM, Robot Man said:

Try finding GA Catmans

I'm trying!

[universal soldier]

Artificially hyped ratio variants for any modern. Good god, it's the 90's alll over again.

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 11/28/2022 at 3:04 PM, Ken Aldred said:

Incredible to think that Wolverine was intended to be a throwaway character, just another opponent for Hulk.

An amazing ascent from basically next to nothing.

Thank Byrne for saving him....

Topic: A World without Wolverine

---

Posted By: JohnByrne4 
Subject: A World without Wolverine 
Date Posted: 25 May 2013 at 10:50am 
 

It's a road I have traveled down before. A speculation, based on that moment, shortly after I was assigned as penciler on (not yet UNCANNY) X-MEN. Chris Claremont and I were chatting on the phone, and he said "Dave and I could never really figure out what to do with Wolverine, so we were planning to write him out of the book. I think I'll still do that." In the only instance of ever wrapping myself in the Canadian flag in the 22 years I lived in that country, I rose up on my hind legs and said "We are NOT getting rid of the only Canadian in the book!" "But we could never think of anything to really DO with him!" said Chris. "Leave that to me," said I. And thus began the shift of focus. People had been joking around the office for quite some time that the book had become NIGHTCRAWLER - Co-starring the X-Men, and since I couldn't really think of anything to do with Nightcrawler, I devoted my energies to Wolverine. And the whole industry suffered for it. Seriously. It's really not towering ego to say that was a "lightning in a bottle" moment. The conjunction of Chris, Terry, me, those characters, that time -- there's really been nothing like it since. And, sure, there was more going on than just "The Adventures of Wolverine" -- Dark Phoenix. Heard of her? -- but I have found that when fans talk about the "cool stuff" in my run with Chris, they go inevitably to the same flashpoints. Wolverine in the sewer. Wolverine killing the guard in the Savage Land. Old Logan in the Future (and his death). Wolverine lifting Heather Hudson off her feet at the moment of their "reunion". None of the other characters racked up an equivalent list. Wolverine -- especially after I left the book -- BECAME the X-MEN. But supposed I'd agreed with Chris, to write him out? Likely he would have been picked up by some other creative team/book. Maybe he'd have landed in the Defenders. Not likely he'd have become an Avenger. The Champions were already gone. There was really nowhere that we might have expected that "lightning" to kindle -- it was a one time/one place moment. Wolverine would probably have faded into the background, remembered fondly by fans but otherwise on the shelf with Howard the Duck, or Man-Thing, or Nova. Occasional attempts at resurrection, with varying degrees of success, but nothing like what we've seen. (Consider that the X-Men movies, despite being made decades later, were squarely anchored on the foundations Chris and I laid.) Would there have been someone else? Maybe, but history doesn't do much to support this idea. The Vision had been hugely popular in THE AVENGERS, but he'd not been able to spin off into his own little empire. Spider-Man seemed already at the top of his game. The Thing, the "original Wolverine", if you will, had not started the same kind of groundswell. There had been nothing like Wolverine, really, in the whole history of comics. Maybe the Hulk comes within hailing distance -- an unsuccessful, barely noticed character at first, who gained new life with a "second chance". But the Hulk didn't become the axle* upon which Marvel rotated. Without Wolverine, and the success he undeniably brought to the X-Men, and what was then built upon that (often at the expense of other books), what would the industry be like today? Very different, I think. And a lot healthier. ____ * Feels almost as if a "no pun intended" is necessary right there. . .

[newshane]

I haven't read other responses, yet, but the first two that come to mind are IH 181 and ASM 300. 

There are tens of thousands of copies. 

The demand will always be super high, but it doesn't justify the massive price bubbles. Let's face it, if you want a copy and have the money, you can find a copy 24/7. 

There are just too many of them to justify the price. Both are definitely massively important books...but come on. I still have no idea why 181 has taken off like a rocket ship. It's not even the first appearance of Wolverine. 

[newshane]

...and I saw that someone had paid six figures for a 9.8 copy?

WHAT was that person smoking? 

Man...I could have gotten one for around 10K a little over a decade ago, IIRC. 

I always wanted a NM copy, but I kept putting off for years. Now that ship has sailed. No way I could justify the current price on that. 

I've waited for the bubble to pop for years, but it keeps getting bigger. Shows how little I know? 

Edited November 28, 2022 by newshane

[newshane]

On 11/27/2022 at 2:26 PM, D2 said:

Hulk 340

Spider-Man 300

Spawn, all issues

Spider-Man 1, all versions

Spawn. 

I used to own them all in 9.8. 

No. Seriously. 1-330. All 9.8. 14 or so 9.9s. Even the turbo rare 185 BW.  

It was epic and there will never be another Spawn collection to match it. 

#BRAGPOST 

Wish I would have held on a bit longer before selling the collection, but I never expected to see such an inflation. 

[newshane]

SImply put...I'm bad at comics as an investment.  

I go where my heart takes me. 

[mephistopheles]

On 11/28/2022 at 5:22 PM, universal soldier said:

Artificially hyped ratio variants for any modern. Good god, it's the 90's alll over again.

I created a thread on that very topic a while back. 

 

[newshane]

Chasing down all the ridiculous variants of Spawn was what totally destroyed the joy of "modern" comics for me. 

I went Gold and I'm never going back. 

[D2]

On 11/28/2022 at 8:46 PM, newshane said:

Chasing down all the ridiculous variants of Spawn was what totally destroyed the joy of "modern" comics for me. 

I went Gold and I'm never going back. 

I was going to say, golden age books are terrible reads, but then you collected Spawn, so you definitely upgraded your reading material. 

[mephistopheles]

On 11/28/2022 at 9:46 PM, newshane said:

Chasing down all the ridiculous variants of Spawn was what totally destroyed the joy of "modern" comics for me. 

I went Gold and I'm never going back. 

It's hard and expensive enough for me chasing silver/bronze. Chasing gold would drive me insane.

[Axelrod]

While I can understand the votes for UF #4 and even Hulk #181, those books at least have something going for them, and "value" is as much a function of demand as supply, so the fact there are thousands doesn't matter as much.  

But modern variants?  Books with literally nothing going for them other than a "different" cover and an artificially manufactured scarcity to pump value?  I am stunned at some of the prices going for some of these.  The acetate-gate thing was just the tip of the iceberg.  I feel like literally zero of these books are going to be worth anything 20 years from now.  

How many "variants" from the 90s are worth anything today?  All those X-Men #1 covers?  

[KCOComics]

On 11/28/2022 at 1:55 PM, D2 said:

@Stefan_W

Books I find still hold up today... The Dark Knight Returns, V for Vendetta, Watchmen... I'd love to hear, I know this is off topic, but reads that people believe have aged well, considering... and could be rendered in the 'timeless' category.

I recently read the Saga of Swamp thing and thoroughly enjoyed it.  

Many of Alan Moore stories have withstood the test of time.  

[KCOComics]

I'll add, Marvels 1968s to the list of over hyped and over valued.  Hulk 181 and ASM300 may be plentiful, but at least they were true first appearances for significant characters.

Hulk 102, Captain America 100, Iron man and Submariner 1, Iron man 1, Submariner 1.... I struggle because these charters were published across multiple titles every mornth. They headlined in TOS, TTA, and the Avengers, while making guests appearances across other titles. I have owned all those books, but never understood the hype. 

Silver Surfer 1 I would argue is different. He seldomly appeared in those other titles and only made a handful of appearances in FF. So SS 1-18 was really the first solo book for an incredible character.... From the cover art to the big $0.25 issues, the books just felt special. Maybe I'm bias. 

Edited November 29, 2022 by KCOComics

[Qalyar]

On 11/28/2022 at 8:15 PM, Axelrod said:

While I can understand the votes for UF #4 and even Hulk #181, those books at least have something going for them, and "value" is as much a function of demand as supply, so the fact there are thousands doesn't matter as much.  

But modern variants?  Books with literally nothing going for them other than a "different" cover and an artificially manufactured scarcity to pump value?  I am stunned at some of the prices going for some of these.  The acetate-gate thing was just the tip of the iceberg.  I feel like literally zero of these books are going to be worth anything 20 years from now.  

How many "variants" from the 90s are worth anything today?  All those X-Men #1 covers?  

A few 90s variants do okay, although certainly not IH181 / ASM300 / UF4 kinds of money. In part, that's because interest in 90s books overall is generally low. But a very partial list of variants that still command reasonable money might include:

• Adventures of Superman 500 Platinum
• Batman 457 2nd print newsstand
• Black Widow 1 DF variant
• Danger Girl 2 Ruby Red
• Gambit 1 Gold
• IH 377 3rd print
• Marvel Collectible Classics Spider-Man 2 Black Costume variant
• Sailor Moon 1 Pink
• Spawn 1 B&W
• Spider-Man 1 Gold Walmart exclusive
• Spider-Man 1 Platinum
• Vengeance of Vampirella 1 Blue
• Wolverine 145 Nabisco variant