PBA galleries auctioneers new collection 40000+ Every DC 9 9

[Ian_Levine]

On 7/13/2023 at 3:10 PM, lou_fine said:

Exact same question that I had and since @Ian_Levine is here himself, maybe he has an answer to this question as to why the consignor did not go with a much more established comic book auctioneer such as Heritage or CC?  

The owner is not the kind of man to be influenced in any way. He has told me to keep out of it, and for various private reasons, I dare not go against him. DARE not.

[Mmehdy]

On 7/13/2023 at 9:48 AM, lou_fine said:

Okay, you made me actually go and Googled up PBA Galleries and I found this:  

PBA Galleries is proud to present a historic event: The sale of The DC UNIVERSE COLLECTION

The DC UNIVERSE comprises over 40,000 comic books including a copy of every single comic published by DC for retail sale from 1934 through 2014.

The collection will be sold in a series of sales beginning with the Batman books on Thursday, November 9th, 2023. Other themed sales will follow in 2024.

CGC has awarded this unprecedented collection its own provenance designation: The DC Universe Collection. Hundreds of books from the collection will be graded and certified by CGC.

Based upon that blub up above, since only hundreds (i..e. < 1,000) of books will be graded, does that mean tens of thousands or some 98% of them are going to be auctioned off as raw copies at probably much lower than normal prices?    

This does not look good, however if you want to be...welll

[Mmehdy]

On 7/13/2023 at 10:24 AM, Ian_Levine said:

The owner is not the kind of man to be influenced in any way. He has told me to keep out of it, and for various private reasons, I dare not go against him. DARE not.

Understandable, but we here on the boards understand, he might not, that all auction houses are not created equal......by far. Does the current owner post on the boards?

Edited July 13, 2023 by Mmehdy

[RareHighGrade]

On 7/13/2023 at 8:58 AM, sfcityduck said:

I can think of a lot of reasons:

• Heritage has many other priorities whereas PBA will likely make this a main focus;

• Many books are lower grade and PBA has been doing a good job on lower grade book auctions so far;

• They might like the people at PBA;

• PBA may have a much better cost structure;

• The advantages of selling through Heritage mainly apply to high priced and high grade books which most of this collection will not be;

• Heritage might have wanted to cherry pick;

etc. add your own.

These are good points, but even collectively they will not offset the massive disadvantage of going with a site that is unknown and unused by most GA collectors.

[Microchip]

On 7/14/2023 at 6:20 AM, RareHighGrade said:

These are good points, but even collectively they will not offset the massive disadvantage of going with a site that is unknown and unused by most GA collectors.

Is PBA known to the dealer community?  If they've ticked that box, and made themselves known the wider dealer community, this could get interesting.

But on the face of things, there's going to be some bargain lots from their series of auctions.

Auctioning books modern first, GA last, would make the most sense.

[sfcityduck]

On 7/13/2023 at 1:20 PM, RareHighGrade said:

These are good points, but even collectively they will not offset the massive disadvantage of going with a site that is unknown and unused by most GA collectors.

You guys are making a big assumption that Heritage wanted to auction off 40,000 mostly low grade DC comics.  They barely were able to handle the Promise Collection.  Why would they want to spend years taking up slots in their auctions with lots that are below their desired average price?  I'm sure Heritage would auction select lots, but nowhere near 40,000 books.

As for PBA's reputation they have been around for a long time auctioning books and some fine art.  They are a fair auctioneer. 

Recently, they've gone into comics, with a strong emphasis on raw PCH, and their auctions have included some serious surprises (one example a complete set of the ASM 1-41 from Steve Ditko's personal collection) and rarely seen items (very rare ECs, Wertham items, and a missed opportunity for two items that will haunt me forever).  I recently bought a nice raw Cosmic Aeroplane and their service was great. What their auctions show is that they are willing and adept at handling interesting stuff that's not in top condition. 

 

..

.

 

.

 

[adamstrange]

On 7/13/2023 at 8:04 PM, sfcityduck said:

They barely were able to handle the Promise Collection.

In what sense were they "barely" able to handle them?

This was a collection of 5000 mostly premium books that they marketed well and auctioned over a year and half of successful sales that broke all sorts of records.

[Bronty]

Yeah there’s no collection heritage can’t handle.   Sure the low value books might be compiled into runs but that just makes sense and I’m sure any house would do the same. 

[lou_fine]

On 7/13/2023 at 5:04 PM, sfcityduck said:

You guys are making a big assumption that Heritage wanted to auction off 40,000 mostly low grade DC comics.

 

On 7/13/2023 at 6:47 PM, Bronty said:

Yeah there’s no collection heritage can’t handle.   Sure the low value books might be compiled into runs but that just makes sense and I’m sure any house would do the same. 

I would definitely tend to agree with Bronty here and say that only the big keys and high dollar value books would have been slotted into their Signature Auctions.  

The rest of them could be auctioned off either raw or slabbed in multiple Showcase theme type auctions which they seem to be having more and more of nowadays.  Especialy since these DShowcase theme auctions of theirs seems to be a compilation of both lower grade slab or raw books.  

[sfcityduck]

On 7/13/2023 at 5:10 PM, adamstrange said:

In what sense were they "barely" able to handle them?

This was a collection of 5000 mostly premium books that they marketed well and auctioned over a year and half of successful sales that broke all sorts of records.

The volumes almost broke CGC and Heritage.  5,000 books dominated both venues for a year.  

It was worth it to Heritage because they were high grade.

Are 40,000 low to mid-grade DCs worth tying up your auction house for?  

Not for Heritage. They have bigger fish to fry.  Plus, they have other priorities.

[sfcityduck]

On 7/13/2023 at 7:57 PM, lou_fine said:

 

I would definitely tend to agree with Bronty here and say that only the big keys and high dollar value books would have been slotted into their Signature Auctions.  

The rest of them could be auctioned off either raw or slabbed in multiple Showcase theme type auctions which they seem to be having more and more of nowadays.  Especialy since these DShowcase theme auctions of theirs seems to be a compilation of both lower grade slab or raw books.  

But, the seller does not appear to have wanted the collection to be cherry picked. It appears to me that the seller would rather be a big fish in a small pond than a side dish at Heritage.  

Frankly, I'm not convinced that low grade books do better at Heritage than other venues.  Really big ticket high grade books?  Generally, yes (with some exceptions). 

But this collection does not have big ticket high grade books.  The best looking book I've seen is the ashcan. Ian was a completist not a finicky "rare high grade" guy.

"If you build they will come."  

Everyone on this site now knows about PBA.  If you are looking for low to mid-grade DCs you are going to find PBA. PCH and EC collectors I'm sure have PBA on their radar.  

The big winner here is PBA. I don't think the seller or Heritage are losers.  I just don't think this collection is a good fit for Heritage.

[RareHighGrade]

On 7/13/2023 at 8:56 PM, sfcityduck said:

not a finicky "rare high grade" guy.

Hey, I resemble that!  

[sfcityduck]

On 7/13/2023 at 9:04 PM, RareHighGrade said:

Hey, I resemble that!  

I wish I did!

[MrBedrock]

On 7/13/2023 at 5:04 PM, sfcityduck said:

You guys are making a big assumption 

On 7/13/2023 at 8:50 PM, sfcityduck said:

The volumes almost broke CGC and Heritage.  5,000 books dominated both venues for a year.  

It was worth it to Heritage because they were high grade.

Are 40,000 low to mid-grade DCs worth tying up your auction house for?  

Not for Heritage. They have bigger fish to fry.  Plus, they have other priorities.

 

You are making a big assumption.

[sfcityduck]

On 7/13/2023 at 9:20 PM, MrBedrock said:

You are making a big assumption.

Do tell.  Even if you break them into lots, its a lot of lots. 

Edited July 14, 2023 by sfcityduck

[adamstrange]

On 7/13/2023 at 11:50 PM, sfcityduck said:

The volumes almost broke CGC and Heritage.  5,000 books dominated both venues for a year.  

CGC grades a lot more than 5000 books per year.  They were overloaded because of increase volume of submissions during this time that was unrelated to the Promise Collection.

Heritage ramped up the number of auctions and lots per auction.  What looked like easily managed growth to me is somehow projected as something else.

In lawyer speak, this is a conclusion based on facts not entered into evidence.

[sfcityduck]

On 7/13/2023 at 9:39 PM, adamstrange said:

CGC grades a lot more than 5000 books per year.  They were overloaded because of increase volume of submissions during this time that was unrelated to the Promise Collection.

Heritage ramped up the number of auctions and lots per auction.  What looked like easily managed growth to me is somehow projected as something else.

In lawyer speak, this is a conclusion based on facts not entered into evidence.

Well, counselor, anecdotal evidence is evidence. And from having lived through that time, it seemed that CGC, and CCS because many Promise books went through pressing, were getting a preference in the que, which makes perfect sense given the imperative to meet Heritage's auction schedule. We saw TATs for CGC and CCS lengthen, and we saw Heritage auctions dominated by Promise books. I also heard, again anecdotally, that the financial threshold to make it into a Signature Auction increased due to the Promise Collection - which again makes business sense. 

But the notion that Heritage has unlimited comic auctioning capacity does not make business sense to me. Every business want to increase its per unit profits because there is always a limit on units, and that is as true for Heritage as anyone else. 

Having said that, does anyone know whether Heritage was offered this collection?  I'd be curious to know if they had an opportunity and, if so, whether they turned it down or were unwilling to meet the sellers demands. 

[MrBedrock]

On 7/13/2023 at 9:36 PM, sfcityduck said:

Do tell.  Even if you break them into lots, its a lot of lots. 

You are assuming Heritage would not want to handle this collection.

[october]

Heritage often sells lots or runs. Had it been an "all or nothing" deal a lot of the bulk silver/bronze would have gone into lots or runs along with the modern filler.

I don't think there is any auction house that would turn down a collection with Action 1, Detective 1, Detective 27, etc out of volume concerns...even if it took five years to clear it all.

[tth2]

On 7/14/2023 at 4:20 AM, RareHighGrade said:

These are good points, but even collectively they will not offset the massive disadvantage of going with a site that is unknown and unused by most GA collectors.

Especially if most of the books are going to be sold raw.  People are already skeptical of Heritage's and CC's grading, I can't even imagine how skeptical they'll be of the grading of an auction house with very little history in comics, and that's before getting into their ability to detect restoration. 

Edited July 14, 2023 by tth2