ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[Dark Knight]

On 12/28/2023 at 12:01 PM, Buzzetta said:

To me that is just stupid. (Replacing those) Most of those cards offer a small swatch is indistinguishable from modern design.  I always thought you were paying for the presentation.  

Yes the common jersey cards do have a jersey swatch and the market value of those are only a few dollars to a few hundred depending on player. If it were to be replaced by say a nice jersey patch of maybe a piece of the team logo, NBA logoman, or even a four colored part of the jersey, the value jumps big time. 

[Stefan_W]

I sent in a 24 book Modern submission and was hoping that my books would make it through grading by Christmas, but I have to say that I am now kind of happy that they are still in SFG because whatever fix they put into place will be active. 

[trademarkcomics]

On 12/28/2023 at 12:17 PM, Stefan_W said:

I sent in a 24 book Modern submission and was hoping that my books would make it through grading by Christmas, but I have to say that I am now kind of happy that they are still in SFG because whatever fix they put into place will be active. 

My 40 book submission just shipped out. 

[topcat54]

So  has anyone seen CGC ' S response ?

[topcat54]

If not here it is just posted 2 hours ago

 

[thehumantorch]

On 12/28/2023 at 12:23 AM, Lightning55 said:

This could be the birth of 4th party grading.

Cracking, checking, verifying what the 3rd party grader determined, and then reslabbing.

Checking the checker.

Ah, but who's gonna check the 4th party grader?

[drotto]

Total speculation territory!!!!!!  If this leads to a new case and/or new anti-tampering measures and CGC offeres a "low cost" reverification to insure authenticity.  Would you do it?

[Stefan_W]

On 12/28/2023 at 3:18 PM, trademarkcomics said:

My 40 book submission just shipped out. 

I remember you posting about that in the TaT thread and I thought of you. 

I would check to see if whatever change they made was already active by the time they did your books. There is no reason to believe they waited until their official announcement to make the changes to their processes. 

[wombat]

On 12/28/2023 at 3:20 PM, thehumantorch said:

On 12/28/2023 at 2:23 AM, Lightning55 said:

This could be the birth of 4th party grading.

Cracking, checking, verifying what the 3rd party grader determined, and then reslabbing.

Checking the checker.

Ah, but who's gonna check the 4th party grader?

5th party. duh. 

[zosocane]

On 12/28/2023 at 2:32 PM, Dark Knight said:

When it comes to providing better security measures for slabbed books, I think the book's graded serial number should be etched on all four sides of the inner well. So if say someone were to compromise the outer shell and try to make a swap and re-grade, well cgc can look at the etching and see if it matches the serial number on the label.

If one were to try and remove the book from the inner well, then they would need to cut over the serial number. 

Just an idea

A good idea.

[trademarkcomics]

On 12/28/2023 at 12:24 PM, Stefan_W said:

I remember you posting about that in the TaT thread and I thought of you. 

I would check to see if whatever change they made was already active by the time they did your books. There is no reason to believe they waited until their official announcement to make the changes to their processes. 

[DC#]

I think I have spent enough time on this thread now….but I do want to express very sincere thanks to those board members who have been working so tireless to track down and document fraudulent books.    Whether it is acknowledged or not - I am sure your work has been helpful to CGC and will be to their investigators.   
 

My belief is by the time of final accounting (which may also be part of a plea or settlement deal with the perpetrator(s) ) - the impacts will be worse than we know but less than we fear.   That may still leave many tilting at windmills for years to come - and not without some justification.    And I will remain optimistic that we will see changes in some form that will help eliminate at least this version of fraud - and will remain pragmatic that where there is money to be made criminals will find a way.  
 

Happy New Year everyone! 
 

 

[Stefan_W]

On 12/28/2023 at 2:32 PM, Dark Knight said:

When it comes to providing better security measures for slabbed books, I think the book's graded serial number should be etched on all four sides of the inner well. So if say someone were to compromise the outer shell and try to make a swap and re-grade, well cgc can look at the etching and see if it matches the serial number on the label.

If one were to try and remove the book from the inner well, then they would need to cut over the serial number. 

Just an idea

The big benefit of this idea is that it works with current slabs and inner sleeves and would be a quick retrofit to the current process. The downside is it would be hard to verify for people casually looking at the slab. 

The idea I advocate is putting the label into the sleeve in its own sealed compartment at the top. This would take development time and cost following by the manufacturing process, so 9-12 months would be a reasonable guess. 

I see your idea as a great stop-gap solution to use but I would still advocate for a re-design in the long term. 

 

[lostboys]

On 12/28/2023 at 2:31 PM, Mikey C said:

This is why I was confused about CGC not changing the inner wells during reholders. 

I read somewhere that CGC recommended changing the cases every 8-10 years…something about the micro chamber paper they put inside books and gases the books give off as they break down slowly over time. 

If they’re just reusing the inner well than what’s the point of the micro chamber paper inside the actual books? I cracked a low-value ASM 330 to keep raw and it had two piece of the paper inside. Maybe for gases? Who the F knows. 

Yeah, well... they dont even include micro chamber paper into every book anymore.

Thats been confirmed.

[DoctorWyoming1]

On 12/28/2023 at 2:24 PM, wombat said:

5th party. duh. 

I remember a few years back some guy was selling cases to put your CGC cases in. So, to me, the 5th party people should be ensuring the quality of CGC case cases, whereas the 6th party group would check on the 4th party. 

As this all gets confusing every book would then come with a 7th party guarantee that all the rest are as they should be.

[Cat]

On 12/29/2023 at 6:01 AM, Buzzetta said:

To me that is just stupid. (Replacing those) Most of those cards offer a small swatch is indistinguishable from modern design.  I always thought you were paying for the presentation.  

I've got something stupider than those, Buzz. Same thing, but instead of a jersey it's a small piece of tyre from the Ironhide prop from Transformers Dark Of The Moon. Dumbest thing I've ever bought, seriously. 

[Buzzetta]

On 12/28/2023 at 3:40 PM, Cat said:

I've got something stupider than those, Buzz. Same thing, but instead of a jersey it's a small piece of tyre from the Ironhide prop from Transformers Dark Of The Moon. Dumbest thing I've ever bought, seriously. 

I have card from a pack I once opened that has crumbles of the Berlin Wall.   Truth. 

[Cat]

On 12/29/2023 at 6:41 AM, Buzzetta said:

I have card from a pack I once opened that has crumbles of the Berlin Wall.   Truth. 

I don't know which is worse, but I think you win. 

[wombat]

On 12/28/2023 at 3:41 PM, Buzzetta said:

I have card from a pack I once opened that has crumbles of the Berlin Wall.   Truth. 

Yeah, but do you have dirt from Dracula's actual castle?

[drotto]

On 12/28/2023 at 3:24 PM, wombat said:

5th party. duh. 

We already have 4th party!!  Does not some company put that extra sticker on slabs saying it is a good copy for the grade?