ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[Cat]

Why does it feel like for all the work done, we still haven't made any progress? 

[agamoto]

Yo @comicwiz

I know you're looking closely at a lot of the hulks, this one's not on the list, but it was sold in 2019 by everyone's favorite slabberino. Set off any alarms?

Sold June 3 2019 for 12100

 

[agamoto]

[agamoto]

Make that TWO 9.6 IH 181's Here's another. 

$14753 Apr 29, 2019

 

 

 

[360flip]

On 1/7/2024 at 10:19 PM, agamoto said:

Make that TWO 9.6 IH 181's Here's another. 

$14753 Apr 29, 2019

 

 

 

Doesn't his swapping always comes back with a custom label?

[TheNero]

I don’t remember if discovered but The CGC list is prob just certs that got reholders, The CGC list sub 3752510001 to 10005  ASM 300 has other ASM 300 with that submission that are on posted WP sales that are not on CGC suspect list , case repair good enough didn’t have to reholder ? 

[agamoto]

On 1/7/2024 at 10:24 PM, 360flip said:

Doesn't his swapping always comes back with a custom label?

No, if you go back to page 186/187 you will find a swaperoo of an 8.0 ASM 129 with an 9.0, universal standard label

 

[Lightning55]

On 1/8/2024 at 1:24 AM, 360flip said:

Doesn't his swapping always comes back with a custom label?

You have to bear in mind that not all titles have custom labels available.

It's about a dozen per year, and changes roughly annually. Some characters continue with new versions of artwork, some are added, some retired. 

The Hulk label is discontinued, but several iterations of Wolverine have been available, currently and in the past. Same with Spider-Man.

[MyNameIsLegion]

On 1/7/2024 at 11:53 PM, mrd160 said:

Also, I am sorry to say that not only must every book this Person sold/slabbed/had his hands on must be looked at, any retailers or dealers he interacted with must be identified at some point. If he duped collectors it is IMPOSSIBLE some dealers weren’t taken in as well and sold suspect books unknowingly.

imagine dealers at a show pinching themselves over the good fortune of making a trade for a swapped out blue for all their qualified greens and purples that have been languishing in their back-stock.  No records, no scans. Totally laundered out into the universe.  He's probably doing it right now. Sure, he's gone offline, but he could continue swapping books and simply not reholder anything at CGC.  He can easily make a 6 figure income and never sell online again. Just like micro-trimming DD who's trolling this thread. He didn't go to prison either now, did he?  

[pdags]

On 1/8/2024 at 1:09 AM, Cat said:

Why does it feel like for all the work done, we still haven't made any progress? 

We're still in the data collection/capture/organize phase... that's always an expansive endeavor.

[comicwiz]

On 1/8/2024 at 1:10 AM, agamoto said:

Yo @comicwiz

I know you're looking closely at a lot of the hulks, this one's not on the list, but it was sold in 2019 by everyone's favorite slabberino. Set off any alarms?

Sold June 3 2019 for 12100

 

Those are in the dataset I began with, I've looked at them early on. But once the list came out, I turned my attention to it because it's allowed me to study the patterns of sales made on those specific books. These two have only the sole listing by one of the alleged seller aliases. This sole record for each instance, combined with the date occurrence moved them to the backburner, however as I've since moved the timeline as far back as 2019 with one of the last changed book examples, I will be circling back to quite a few I've put on the backburner in due time. These two are just some of the many I have to do this with. 

[Mephisto]

On 1/8/2024 at 2:14 AM, MyNameIsLegion said:

imagine dealers at a show pinching themselves over the good fortune of making a trade for a swapped out blue for all their qualified greens and purples that have been languishing in their back-stock.  No records, no scans. Totally laundered out into the universe.  He's probably doing it right now. Sure, he's gone offline, but he could continue swapping books and simply not reholder anything at CGC.  He can easily make a 6 figure income and never sell online again. Just like micro-trimming DD who's trolling this thread. He didn't go to prison either now, did he?  

Well he did...it was just for fraud with sports memorabilia. 

[Pcaedus]

Might be off topic I noticed cgc doesn't have any dc custom labels up to date I believe. Is it a rights thing? Shame 

[namisgr]

On 1/7/2024 at 7:17 PM, mrd160 said:

Right now this seller gets no benefit of the doubt

Here are the high resolution scans of the front and back covers of your FF #2 taken by ComicConnect at the time the book was first sold 10 years ago.  That should give you a solid foundation to look for any potential differences with the book you have in hand.  As for the book being unrestored/untrimmed, CGC has already given it the blue light once, and at a time long after the Ewert scandal when they were forced to increase their sophistication and diligence detecting microtrimming.

https://www.comicconnect.com/item/534150

Edited January 8 by namisgr

[MAR1979]

On 1/7/2024 at 6:54 PM, MasterChief said:

 That would then mean  Metropolis Collectibles/Comic Connect collectively missed the trimming.

Profit before all else. 

[MyNameIsLegion]

On 1/8/2024 at 7:26 AM, MAR1979 said:

Profit before all else. 

that reminds me- based on just the 350 books briva 3 submitted to CGC, and I assume the list is much longer than 350- how much money did CGC charge him in grading and labeling fees?  Probably their BIGGEST motivation and incentive in all this isn't to root out fraud, swapping, etc- it's to ensure that NO ONE circumvents their grading fees based on FMV. what's the difference, from a CGC invoice perspective, of grading a 9.8 IH#181 and reholdering or custom labels for a IH#181?  

Edited January 8 by MyNameIsLegion

[Mikey C]

On 1/8/2024 at 1:35 AM, agamoto said:

No, if you go back to page 186/187 you will find a swaperoo of an 8.0 ASM 129 with an 9.0, universal standard label

 

One of the first swaps that was discovered was an old label NM98 newsstand that became a regular blue label MJ. No custom label. 

Edited January 8 by Mikey C

[wiparker824]

On 1/7/2024 at 11:42 PM, Lightning55 said:

You have to bear in mind that not all titles have custom labels available.

It's about a dozen per year, and changes roughly annually. Some characters continue with new versions of artwork, some are added, some retired. 

The Hulk label is discontinued, but several iterations of Wolverine have been available, currently and in the past. Same with Spider-Man.

Yes and also doesn’t this scammer have books on this list that predate custom labels entirely? I feel like custom labels have only been around since like 2017ish? The reholder was around before them in any case, and people would send them in when the case had some scuffing or minor damage, or if they just wanted out of an old gen holder. The custom label just provided an easier cover for the individual but it was not required for this scam.

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 1/8/2024 at 8:22 AM, wiparker824 said:

Yes and also doesn’t this scammer have books on this list that predate custom labels entirely? I feel like custom labels have only been around since like 2017ish? The reholder was around before them in any case, and people would send them in when the case had some scuffing or minor damage, or if they just wanted out of an old gen holder. The custom label just provided an easier cover for the individual but it was not required for this scam.

The 1st custom label was in June 2016  

[MyNameIsLegion]

So....

MCS  & Comiclink have publicly acknowledged books in the scam have gone through them and offered to help with the investigation in some copacity

CommicConnet/Metroplis: at least one conformed book, but no statement from them

Heritage Auctions: Anything from there yet? There had to be some books flipped through them, they're the top of the food chain, and they have extensive online sales history and images. Id' think they'd have something to say on all this. But then, they launder doctored Original Comic art all the time....