underthebigw Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Thanks for the good info Steve. I'm wondering if the OVERuse of dessicants such as silica gel might in any way possibly be detrimental to current condition of the comic? Probably not, I'd think. Hey, Darth. You are correct. Theoretically, silica gel should be conditioned to maintain a desirable RH. Too much silica gel not properly conditioned will not only suck the moisture out of the air, but paper as well. It is not only used for conservation work, but dried flower arrangers use it to completely dry out flowers and plants. The same effect can happen with paper, it's just less noticeable. By the way, there's not easy way to figure out how to condition silica gel. Instead, there's a great product called Art Sorb that is pre-conditioned. It also costs a small fortune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scheradon Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 This may explain what happened to me. I had a 1980 Pittsburg Steelers unopened beer can that I had just stored on my bookshelf for years, then after I got my fireproof safe, I put it in there with some other valuables including one raw comic. As bad luck would have it, I discovered the can possibly due to slight rust along the seam, split slightly open and leaked the contents. My one comic was the only thing to get affected by the leakage. Lessen quickly learned there. Yes but did you drink rest of the beer?? Oh and go STEELERS!!! No, but by the time I noticed this had happened the thing was empty and all the beer had evaporated leaving just a circular stain on my comic. The comic was a smaller sized 1950's Science comic. Can't remember the exact title right now, but I don't think it was actually very valuable. The can however is still very presentable with just a slight discoloration along the seem where the leak occurred. I also did have the paper that came with the safe lining the bottom and the silica packs as well. They may work well in most scenarios, but apparently not beer cans. Ya, the Steelers were my favorite team as a kid and I still remember the day my Dad got back from a business trip to Pennsylvania and gave me that can. No worries of me drinking it though, I've never drank a beer in my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck Biggins Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 You would think some safe company would have designed a safe for the storage of paper items. Gives me an idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timely Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 I used a gun safe (Hall Safe Co) to store my Mile Highs for over 12 years and had no problems. It was fire-resistant, not fire-proof. Air was able to escape at a minimal level. I did have a few gel packs in there as well as having the entire room air-conditioned. West Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burntboy Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Steve; could you share the manufacturer of the two safes in question?? i PM'd you, as well, in case you'd prefer not to specifically single them out........thanks, Harry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divad Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 I used a gun safe (Hall Safe Co) to store my Mile Highs for over 12 years and had no problems. It was fire-resistant, not fire-proof. Air was able to escape at a minimal level. I did have a few gel packs in there as well as having the entire room air-conditioned. West My safe is jam-packed with cash, jewels and other treasures I've got no room for comic books Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member plitch Posted March 31, 2006 Member Share Posted March 31, 2006 Steve; could you share the manufacturer of the two safes in question?? i PM'd you, as well, in case you'd prefer not to specifically single them out........thanks, Harry. Harry- Steve is on his way to Seattle today. I assume he has a reason for not releasing the manufacturers name, so I will not release it either. If it was an oversight, I'm sure he'll tell you. Regardless, just because it is one manufacturer that does not mean that they are the only ones with possibly harmful material on the interior of the safe. Please check your safe's manual or contact the company directly. That is the only way to be certain. I have to buy a new safe this weekend... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burntboy Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 I used a gun safe (Hall Safe Co) to store my Mile Highs for over 12 years and had no problems. It was fire-resistant, not fire-proof. Air was able to escape at a minimal level. I did have a few gel packs in there as well as having the entire room air-conditioned. West My safe is jam-packed with cash, jewels and other treasures I've got no room for comic books My safe is jam-packed with comic books i've got no room for cash, jewels and other treasures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybolt Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Steve; could you share the manufacturer of the two safes in question?? i PM'd you, as well, in case you'd prefer not to specifically single them out........thanks, Harry. Harry- Steve is on his way to Seattle today. I assume he has a reason for not releasing the manufacturers name, so I will not release it either. If it was an oversight, I'm sure he'll tell you. Regardless, just because it is one manufacturer that does not mean that they are the only ones with possibly harmful material on the interior of the safe. Please check your safe's manual or contact the company directly. That is the only way to be certain. I have to buy a new safe this weekend... As I asked Steve earlier, have you heard of any problems with safety deposit boxes that banks use? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divad Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 I used a gun safe (Hall Safe Co) to store my Mile Highs for over 12 years and had no problems. It was fire-resistant, not fire-proof. Air was able to escape at a minimal level. I did have a few gel packs in there as well as having the entire room air-conditioned. West My safe is jam-packed with cash, jewels and other treasures I've got no room for comic books My safe is jam-packed with comic books i've got no room for cash, jewels and other treasures I thought you still kept them in your underwear drawer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member plitch Posted March 31, 2006 Member Share Posted March 31, 2006 As I asked Steve earlier, have you heard of any problems with safety deposit boxes that banks use? Thanks. Not that I know of. Call your bank to be 100% certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 i have my 3 best books in my briefcase. Order of fire evacuation briefcase son dog 4 half boxes i keep in living room ex-wife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell F Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 i have my 3 best books in my briefcase. Order of fire evacuation son briefcase dog 4 half boxes i keep in living room ex-wife Fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BronzeBruce13 Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 I am the unfortunate one Steve speaks of. I will be commenting more and posting scans this weekend. For the record, I WAS using a Sentry Fire-Safe Model A3810. Ironic since I enjoy the new marvel character the Sentry. To be fair, it may very well not be the manufacturer, but any fire-proof safe for reasons explained below* in more detail. When researching and comparing safes prior to purchase, this one appeared to me to be specifically for storing papergoods safely and providing longer protection from heat and/or fire. Despite the warning about firearms/ammunition, there was no specific warning about ANY non-precious metal (staples) being at risk to rust in the manual and other verbiage that IMO supports its use for CGC protected comics. *It may not be the humidity and moisture levels the safe locks in that caused the damage. In my "post rust" conversations, it has been suggested that the anti-fire chemical(s) used to produce the safe may aid in accelerating the rusting process or be corrosive to metal all by themselves. I have to post on the NGC boards and see what I can find from the coin collectors. The safe was opened semi-regularly and silica gel packets were used also. There was never even the most remote indication of moisture within (beading, etc.) to the naked eye... although that may not be relevant. So far (1) book appears to be totally shot. One of my prized personal favorites Hulk 182 9.8 oww Winnipeg that was in the safe the longest. 3 others have a very minor amount apparently just starting and are not visible from a front scan. Steve mentioned that there is a possibility that this minor amount could be brushed off without "cleaning" the staples in a manner that would render them conserved or restored. So I am holding out hope that my loss will be just the 1 book worth around $2,000. I am sending CGC all books that were in the safe just so they can examine them closely and see if there is anything else to discover.. god forbid. All the books that are determined to be harm-free will be reholdered regardless. I will find out as much as I can and will be distributing all information as far and wide as I'm able with the assistance of CGC, GPA and Gemstone. My hope is that I can help others that may have their CGC comics similarly stored remove them from the harmful environment before they suffer any losses as I have. For the record, I will exercise "full disclosure" when/if any of the 3 books that have minor rust starting on them (and hopefully can have it removed within the rules) are ever sold whether they are lowered in grade or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divad Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Bruce, Sorry to hear about this. Just to be clear, all 3 books are still slabbed? And you are able to detect rust? When researching and comparing safes prior to purchase, this one appeared to me to be specifically for storing papergoods safely and providing longer protection from heat and/or fire. Despite the warning about firearms/ammunition, there was no specific warning about ANY non-precious metal (staples) being at risk to rust in the catalog and other verbiage that IMO supports its use for CGC protected comics. In retrospect, the warning as to firearms would appear to include all ferrous metals, regardless of use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burntboy Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Bruce, Sorry to hear about this. Just to be clear, all 3 books are still slabbed? And you are able to detect rust? When researching and comparing safes prior to purchase, this one appeared to me to be specifically for storing papergoods safely and providing longer protection from heat and/or fire. Despite the warning about firearms/ammunition, there was no specific warning about ANY non-precious metal (staples) being at risk to rust in the catalog and other verbiage that IMO supports its use for CGC protected comics. In retrospect, the warning as to firearms would appear to include all ferrous metals, regardless of use. Bruce - that really sucks - sorry man................. but just so i get this straight, we have a safe from a well known safe company, books CGC slabbed, and rust has started to form on some books. this amazes me as i would have thought that the interior barex (?) holder would have prevented minimal humidity from touching the book. i'm gonna get out my paperwork for my Fort Knox safe (which has extra steel reinforcement as well as extra fire protection) and see if there' any mention of a potential problem........... thanks for being so straight up about this................................Harry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gifflefunk Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Everyone knows that slabbed books still age/oxidize, they can still suffer from moisture damage, the effects of UV light can still harm the book through its shell, etc., but so long as you don't open that slab the grade is still valid... that is the credo here isn't it?? So the trick is to not open the slab and invalidate the grade, right? Just pass the slabbed book on to the next sucker. If the buyer opens the slab to inspect the book, bam!, instant invalid grade and the seller is off the hook (as well as CGC). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takeyourlemons Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Bruce and Steve, Thanks for the information regarding this....this will be useful to everyone. Bruce: Now that you have my attention, I'll attend to that data request you asked several weeks ago (sorry for the delay) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FFB Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Bruce, Sorry to hear about this. Just to be clear, all 3 books are still slabbed? And you are able to detect rust? When researching and comparing safes prior to purchase, this one appeared to me to be specifically for storing papergoods safely and providing longer protection from heat and/or fire. Despite the warning about firearms/ammunition, there was no specific warning about ANY non-precious metal (staples) being at risk to rust in the catalog and other verbiage that IMO supports its use for CGC protected comics. In retrospect, the warning as to firearms would appear to include all ferrous metals, regardless of use. Bruce - that really sucks - sorry man................. but just so i get this straight, we have a safe from a well known safe company, books CGC slabbed, and rust has started to form on some books. this amazes me as i would have thought that the interior barex (?) holder would have prevented minimal humidity from touching the book. i'm gonna get out my paperwork for my Fort Knox safe (which has extra steel reinforcement as well as extra fire protection) and see if there' any mention of a potential problem........... thanks for being so straight up about this................................Harry. Barex is not a complete moisture barrier. No plastic is. The environment inside the holder will eventually equalize with the environment outside of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timulty Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Everyone knows that slabbed books still age/oxidize, they can still suffer from moisture damage, the effects of UV light can still harm the book through its shell, etc., but so long as you don't open that slab the grade is still valid... that is the credo here isn't it?? So the trick is to not open the slab and invalidate the grade, right? Just pass the slabbed book on to the next sucker. If the buyer opens the slab to inspect the book, bam!, instant invalid grade and the seller is off the hook (as well as CGC). .... I sense a presence that is familiar here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
