TMNT #1 Club 18 18

[lou_fine]

On 9/9/2021 at 4:38 AM, tvindy said:

On 9/8/2021 at 7:56 PM, lou_fine said:

Unfiortunately as all of us know here, grading is really nothing more than a subjective opinion (albeit a so-called "expert" one) at a particular time when a book crosses a grader's table, as opposed to being an exact science or anything even close to it.  

It's not quite that bad. I recall reading somewhere that CGC uses three independent graders. One of them is the head grader who has the final word, but after he/she determines the grade, they look to see what the other graders gave the comic. That way, they're less likely to miss a defect or to be too affected by whatever mood they're in on that day. Sure, it's not an exact science, but they do strive for consistency.

Glad to see that you are still a believer and drinking your daily dose of CGC juice.  

For the life of me, I just can't figure out which one of these 2 pedigree books look better, given that both of them have the exact same CGC 8.5 grade:  

 

Well, all I can say is that I guess somebody must have brought into the label as they ended up paying $10,800 for the Gangsters Can't Win 2 when the book has a condition guide value of only $268.  Of course some of the CGC loyalists here stated that what we were seeing here on the spine of the Gangsters Can't Win book were so-called "production flaws", and as such, are not to be taken into account by the graders when grading the book.  

No surprise though to guess which book was submitted in for grading by Heritage while the other was not.    

[lou_fine]

On 9/9/2021 at 5:27 AM, Ozonetv said:

Blows me away that a 9.6 can go for 25% of what a 9.8 goes for...

 

To each their own, but I guess it really depends if you are a CGC label collector or if you are a comic book collector.  

Especially since I know EXACTLY what 25% of a certain dollar amount represents, while a CGC grade being subjective in nature can have an acceptable grading range of error which unfortunately seems to be widening quite a bit lately.    

[Professor K]

On 9/10/2021 at 3:27 AM, lou_fine said:

To each their own, but I guess it really depends if you are a CGC label collector or if you are a comic book collector.  

Especially since I know EXACTLY what 25% of a certain dollar amount represents, while a CGC grade being subjective in nature can have an acceptable grading range of error which unfortunately seems to be widening quite a bit lately.    

Hey! I agree with that. I think with most books from around 1980 to the early 90's that 9.6's selling for 25% of what 9.8's sell for is about right. Some even sell for nearly 50%.  My only book at this point from  those years is a 9.6 New Mutes 98. Its even got a QES sticker. I think 9.6 is a popular grade with 80's and early 90's books because a lot of people, like myself, feel that many 9.6's could have very well been given a grade of  9.8, depending on various factors such as but not limited to: The day of the week, The allignment of the planets, and how close it is to payday on the day it was graded. 

Edited September 10, 2021 by Professor K
spelling, grammar

[tvindy]

On 9/10/2021 at 4:17 AM, lou_fine said:

Glad to see that you are still a believer and drinking your daily dose of CGC juice.  

For the life of me, I just can't figure out which one of these 2 pedigree books look better, given that both of them have the exact same CGC 8.5 grade:  

 

Well, all I can say is that I guess somebody must have brought into the label as they ended up paying $10,800 for the Gangsters Can't Win 2 when the book has a condition guide value of only $268.  Of course some of the CGC loyalists here stated that what we were seeing here on the spine of the Gangsters Can't Win book were so-called "production flaws", and as such, are not to be taken into account by the graders when grading the book.  

No surprise though to guess which book was submitted in for grading by Heritage while the other was not.    

Well, like I said, it's not a perfect system, but you really can't tell what all the defects are once once a comic has been slabbed. My guess is that the Wonder Woman comic has an interior defect, liked a torn page or crayon marks, that lowered the grade.

[sorrenmj]

On 12/19/2019 at 6:42 PM, valiantman said:

TMNT #1 1st print is about $800 to $1,000 per point up to CGC 8.0, so a CGC 2.0 1st print would probably be $1,600 to $2,000.  The last two sales (two years apart) for a 2nd print 9.8 were $2,575 and $5,500, so the CGC 9.8 2nd print is more expensive.  Currently a CGC 2.0 TMNT #1 1st print and a CGC 9.4 TMNT #1 2nd print are probably equal value.  I think I'd rather have the CGC 2.0 1st print than a CGC 9.4 2nd print, but I don't know about a CGC 2.0 1st print or a CGC 9.8 2nd print. 

In the long run, it's hard to know if TMNT #1 2nd print will be prized that much, or if it will be more like CGC 9.8 Amazing Spider-Man #1 Golden Record Reprint, which isn't worth more than Amazing Spider-Man #1 in CGC 2.0. 

How's the demand for 2nd prints now? I can't find any sales data for 2nd prints. First and third prints is quite easy but hardly anything for 2nd prints. Very odd

[Ozonetv]

On 9/10/2021 at 6:33 AM, Professor K said:

Hey! I agree with that. I think with most books from around 1980 to the early 90's that 9.6's selling for 25% of what 9.8's sell for is about right. Some even sell for nearly 50%.  My only book at this point from  those years is a 9.6 New Mutes 98. Its even got a QES sticker. I think 9.6 is a popular grade with 80's and early 90's books because a lot of people, like myself, feel that many 9.6's could have very well been given a grade of  9.8, depending on various factors such as but not limited to: The day of the week, The allignment of the planets, and how close it is to payday on the day it was graded. 

In a mind blowing HA auction yesterday, a Marvel Spotlight 5 9.6 went for 42k, down a whopping 85% from 265k for the 9.8. Granted, the book was poorly centered, but wow - thats a massive drop.

[MAR1979]

On 9/10/2021 at 8:24 AM, tvindy said:

Well, like I said, it's not a perfect system, but you really can't tell what all the defects are once once a comic has been slabbed. My guess is that the Wonder Woman comic has an interior defect, liked a torn page or crayon marks, that lowered the grade.

Perhaps.  Also possible that "The Promise Collection" has a hint of alleged nepotistic impropriety.

Edited September 10, 2021 by MAR1979

[Professor K]

On 9/10/2021 at 5:33 PM, Ozonetv said:

In a mind blowing HA auction yesterday, a Marvel Spotlight 5 9.6 went for 42k, down a whopping 85% from 265k for the 9.8. Granted, the book was poorly centered, but wow - thats a massive drop.

Yes I suppose that's because there are only 4 9.8 MS 5's, so compared to the prices they get anything will be a big drop. 42 K is still pretty respectable right?I was talking about 80's to early 90's stuff. 

[Ryan.]

[WolverineX]

On 9/10/2021 at 8:30 PM, Ryan. said:

Wow!! Where 

[Ryan.]

Mycomicshop. 

[WolverineX]

On 9/10/2021 at 8:30 PM, Ryan. said:

Seems like a great price with 9. 8s hitting over 200k now 

[Ryan.]

On 9/11/2021 at 10:03 AM, Wolverinex said:

Seems like a great price with 9. 8s hitting over 200k now 

Agree. These were sold directly by MCS, as opposed to consignments, so I assume they were priced to sell. 

[WolverineX]

On 9/11/2021 at 1:44 PM, Ryan. said:

Agree. These were sold directly by MCS, as opposed to consignments, so I assume they were priced to sell.

With only three thousand copies,  the mid and lower graded copies should be selling a lot higher.

[sorrenmj]

On 7/22/2020 at 7:53 PM, Subby1938 said:

I bought my 9.0 first print two years ago 5K from Metropolis . I traded it away I’m regretting it everyday . No way I could get that now under 10!

There's a CGC 5 on the bay BIN $17,800

[lou_fine]

On 9/10/2021 at 2:33 PM, Ozonetv said:

In a mind blowing HA auction yesterday, a Marvel Spotlight 5 9.6 went for 42k, down a whopping 85% from 265k for the 9.8. Granted, the book was poorly centered, but wow - thats a massive drop.

Well, you are definitely right about the book being off-centered just by taking a look at the clearly visible misaligned white line running down the spine: 

Just imagine paying $265K for a copy that I would flipped right past if I saw it on the shelves of the LCS at the time or simply leave the store to head to another LCS in town for a better looking copy.    

[lou_fine]

Never mind..............you are right in that the CGC 9.6 graded copy looks even worse that the 9.8 from a miscut point of view:  

Wow, looks like the owner of this Orgeon Coast Collection had multiple copies of MS 5 and is definitely going to be making good bank here.  

Definitely much smarter than moi because if somebody had given me a copy of a relatively common book that looked like this, I probably would have used it to line the inside of my kitchen recycle container, especially with that bottom staple.    

[sorrenmj]

On 9/11/2021 at 7:02 PM, sorrenmj said:

There's a CGC 5 on the bay BIN $17,800

The seller is accepting best offers too. If I had to the money I would approach the seller with a best offer of between 10-15k which seems a fairer price for the grade. Once I had the 5 I'd be in the club! Then I'd flip and upgrade my way all the way to a 9!

[lou_fine]

On 9/10/2021 at 3:24 PM, MAR1979 said:

Perhaps.  Also possible that "The Promise Collection" has a hint of alleged nepotistic impropriety.

Well, we all need to understand that this is a business after all, and although collectors might call it nepotism or conflict of interest, in the business world it's called veritcal integration and the Promise Collection is simply nothing more than the classic example for the realization of business synergies to the max.  

Particularly telling since we haven't seen a single one of these nosebleed graded Promise Collection books come back into the marketplace in higher graded slabs and being resold at substantially higher prices, which was certainly not the case with the Jon Berk Collection which was auctioned off through a competing auction house.    

[lou_fine]

On 9/11/2021 at 10:52 AM, Wolverinex said:

With only three thousand copies,  the mid and lower graded copies should be selling a lot higher.

Yes, from my own personal point of view, this is the sign of a true vintage collectible comic book is when it can command high prices and multiples to guide across the entire condition spectrum, as opposed to do being able to achieve this for the highest graded copies only and nada for the ones pretty much below that.