ROBOJO 33 DISCUSSION Thread WARNING! ROBOJO inside!

[ChemEng]

Wow.

 

It's a good thing that this isn't a courtroom because in the case of Forum vs Robojo, the Forum doesn't have much of a case and is resorting to shouting ungrounded accusations. IMO, he made his point well and responded well to a lot of of those accusations.

 

1.Selling Restored as Unrestored?

He lists some of his auctions as restored when he knows about it, and eBay feedback indicates a lot of satisfaction with his auctions.

2. Undergrading?

There's nothing illegal with cracking a label you see as undergraded and selling raw before getting it graded. He sees the grading as risky because it might be submitted several times before getting that true grade, so he passes the risk to someone else. Or it may even be that the buyers agree the book looks a lot better than what the label would say (Shocking!) and that may be fine for a lot of collections.

3. Making more by grading ASM #2?

Perhaps, but there isn't a whole lot of recent information about high grade ASM 2 on GPA either. With the cost of shipping, grading, chances of damage to the comic, and the chance of the comic getting undergraded anyhow, I don't think you should blame the guy for NOT being greedy. If anything, I think the price reflected on Ebay falls in line with what a CGC 9.0 of 9.2 would bring to the table. Sounds to me like the buyers are already factoring some measure of risk.

 

Sure you may disagree with his business model, but at the end of the day, there seem to be plenty of buyers who would rather buy their books this way. His feedback is also quite high, indicating a lot of customer satisfaction. Ebay is siding with Robojo also by continuing to allow his auctions.

 

Again, it looks to me like this guy makes a good case, but everyone here would far prefer to beat up on someone who doesn't defend himself.

[John A III]

He has defended himself. And while the bored has no 'solid' proof, as you see it, doesn't mean that we have to believe him after he contridicts himself and avoids questions.

[NYComics]

funny thing is, even if I didn't respect the opinion of this many board members, I wouldn't trust this guy just from his two active threads. He doesn't answer certain questions because it's obvious he has no answer for them, he talks in circles, and the contradicts his own statements. Has made my night at work much more enjoyable to see him get his handed to him.

 

 

[1koko]

He has every right to grade any book whatever grade he wants. He may even truly believe the grades that he gives his comics. Grading is subjective, this is true. The grades he states may be in line with CGC or they may be overgraded, but to be honest, that is true with probably 99% of all sellers on eBay. If he cracks a book from a CGC slab to sell it raw, that's fine as well. If he grades it differently, that's fine as well. If that were me cracking and selling, I would include CGC's grade in my disclosure. Would he, most likely not, but that's no different from many board members here who spoke up saying that there's no need to include CGC's grade when they crack a book. He may have been a criminal before, he may have been selling restored books as unrestored books before, I don't truly know. From here, it just looks like his game is to sell raw books and advertise them for what he thinks they are. They may likely be lower than what CGC would grade them, but there's only one way to test that.

 

Andy

 

Have to agreee with Andy that he has finally found a scam that is unethical but legal.

 

He will refund for comics represented as unrestored that come back as restored by CGC - from experience he will have found that this is no longer worth the hassle for the higher end comics as most buyers willl CGC them and then ask for refunds

 

Grading is subjective so he can overstate a grade and say its his point of view. As long as he s not too greedy - ie overstating the grade too much he can make a reasonable profit and state that his practice is consistent with the market. His listing then can attract buyers ith less grading skills than he has or those who do not ask the right questions (eg can they have a scan of the back cover with the stain on it). He can throw in comics where he grades them correctly and makes a loss to increase his reputation and argument accordingly.

 

This means by covering himself with the right language in his descriptions and by omitting facts (such as prior CGC grading - which itself states is an opinion) he can make a high return without falling foul of any authorities.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NYComics]

Wow.

 

It's a good thing that this isn't a courtroom because in the case of Forum vs Robojo, the Forum doesn't have much of a case and is resorting to shouting ungrounded accusations. IMO, he made his point well and responded well to a lot of of those accusations.

 

1.Selling Restored as Unrestored?

He lists some of his auctions as restored when he knows about it, and eBay feedback indicates a lot of satisfaction with his auctions.

2. Undergrading?

There's nothing illegal with cracking a label you see as undergraded and selling raw before getting it graded. He sees the grading as risky because it might be submitted several times before getting that true grade, so he passes the risk to someone else. Or it may even be that the buyers agree the book looks a lot better than what the label would say (Shocking!) and that may be fine for a lot of collections.

3. Making more by grading ASM #2?

Perhaps, but there isn't a whole lot of recent information about high grade ASM 2 on GPA either. With the cost of shipping, grading, chances of damage to the comic, and the chance of the comic getting undergraded anyhow, I don't think you should blame the guy for NOT being greedy. If anything, I think the price reflected on Ebay falls in line with what a CGC 9.0 of 9.2 would bring to the table. Sounds to me like the buyers are already factoring some measure of risk.

 

Sure you may disagree with his business model, but at the end of the day, there seem to be plenty of buyers who would rather buy their books this way. His feedback is also quite high, indicating a lot of customer satisfaction. Ebay is siding with Robojo also by continuing to allow his auctions.

 

Again, it looks to me like this guy makes a good case, but everyone here would far prefer to beat up on someone who doesn't defend himself.

 

 

No offense you have 46 posts, less than Robojo. Seriously just do your homework on the guy and his business.....why would you buy a book from him? why defend him if you feel the forums are against him with no other reason than to provoke an argument.

 

You know what......go ahead and buy his books then.

[ComicKing-migration]

He can throw in comics where he grades them correctly and makes a loss to increase his reputation and argument accordingly.

 

 

And what would you think that I'm throwing in that would mollify an expensive unrestored comic coming back restored? It's a small token of appreciation, just a little more than just saying thank you for buying. What I throw in is hardly worth buying someone's appoval on anything over $20.00 which i all I sell anyway. In all but very rare cases it's a token that wouldn't even auction for $5.00 with free postage. It's a gesture, nothing more. I use the books hat I wouldn't auction by themselves as giveaways, to let a buyer know he's appreciated. All sellers should show their buyers this type of courteousy, appreciation, and treat them right. Then they two will have many feedbacks that speak of bending over backwards and not buying raw from anyone else.

[ComicKing-migration]

He will refund for comics represented as unrestored that come back as restored by CGC - from experience he will have found that this is no longer worth the hassle for the higher end comics as most buyers willl CGC them and then ask for refunds

 

Refunds for comics represented as unrestored that have been returned purple was not a neccessity. In the past 14 months, 1 comic has been returned for resto. before that, 4 others for that reason, all but one well under $200. In all cases a complete reimbursement was made, the refund + CGC fees + all postage, to an from me and to and from CGC.

In the past 14 months by virtue of my unrestored submission findings, I consider myself on par with the best in the hobby a far as detection and resto disclosure goes.

 

I wouldn't state this if I thought there was someone who could prove otherwise.

[NYComics]

you are the best!

[John A III]

I could state that I'm good at restoration detection and can grade well too; however, that don't mean it's true.

[ChemEng]

Wow.

 

It's a good thing that this isn't a courtroom because in the case of Forum vs Robojo, the Forum doesn't have much of a case and is resorting to shouting ungrounded accusations. IMO, he made his point well and responded well to a lot of of those accusations.

 

1.Selling Restored as Unrestored?

He lists some of his auctions as restored when he knows about it, and eBay feedback indicates a lot of satisfaction with his auctions.

2. Undergrading?

There's nothing illegal with cracking a label you see as undergraded and selling raw before getting it graded. He sees the grading as risky because it might be submitted several times before getting that true grade, so he passes the risk to someone else. Or it may even be that the buyers agree the book looks a lot better than what the label would say (Shocking!) and that may be fine for a lot of collections.

3. Making more by grading ASM #2?

Perhaps, but there isn't a whole lot of recent information about high grade ASM 2 on GPA either. With the cost of shipping, grading, chances of damage to the comic, and the chance of the comic getting undergraded anyhow, I don't think you should blame the guy for NOT being greedy. If anything, I think the price reflected on Ebay falls in line with what a CGC 9.0 of 9.2 would bring to the table. Sounds to me like the buyers are already factoring some measure of risk.

 

Sure you may disagree with his business model, but at the end of the day, there seem to be plenty of buyers who would rather buy their books this way. His feedback is also quite high, indicating a lot of customer satisfaction. Ebay is siding with Robojo also by continuing to allow his auctions.

 

Again, it looks to me like this guy makes a good case, but everyone here would far prefer to beat up on someone who doesn't defend himself.

 

 

No offense you have 46 posts, less than Robojo. Seriously just do your homework on the guy and his business.....why would you buy a book from him? why defend him if you feel the forums are against him with no other reason than to provoke an argument.

 

You know what......go ahead and buy his books then.

 

No offense taken, although it sounds to me like there was already a heated argument going on.

[ComicKing-migration]

I can't kill time like I did yesterday and post endlessly. The time just goes and before you know it, minutes turn into hours. I don't think most here realize just how much time they spend posting. Time that they someday may wish to God that they had back to spend in a different way.

I'm not avoiding anyone or anything, I just can't answer 50 prosecutors from the stand any better than I have been, and I can't kill today too with the posting.

This is why I wasn't being sarcastic when I stated that it was easier for me to simply pull the listings and destroy the books to make sure that nobody will ever get raw books that were once CGCed.

It's not a big deal to me but y'all live and die by CGC, and to you, disagreement with CGC is a crime. I don't see it that way, but I am respectful of your opinions. I have tons of books from original owner collections that I'm ure were never slabbed, I'll deal with them and leave it or someone to tell me that it was once slabbed and if they can provide proof, I'll destroy that too.

That appears to be the right thing to do, oddly enough, though I wouldn't have guessed it before yesterday.

Be back later, if I can find the time and inclination.

[DiceX]

He will refund for comics represented as unrestored that come back as restored by CGC - from experience he will have found that this is no longer worth the hassle for the higher end comics as most buyers willl CGC them and then ask for refunds

 

Refunds for comics represented as unrestored that have been returned purple was not a neccessity. In the past 14 months, 1 comic has been returned for resto. before that, 4 others for that reason, all but one well under $200. In all cases a complete reimbursement was made, the refund + CGC fees + all postage, to an from me and to and from CGC.

In the past 14 months by virtue of my unrestored submission findings, I consider myself on par with the best in the hobby a far as detection and resto disclosure goes.

 

I wouldn't state this if I thought there was someone who could prove otherwise.

 

Same exact work ethic as Dupcake and Koos. Dude, do you jack off at night thinking you have the wool over someone's eyes? Why are you such a that you can't just man up and tell everyone who you are. You're not much of a man, Danny. You either get off on it, or you're a big ol' big .

 

 

[ComicKing-migration]

He will refund for comics represented as unrestored that come back as restored by CGC - from experience he will have found that this is no longer worth the hassle for the higher end comics as most buyers willl CGC them and then ask for refunds

 

Refunds for comics represented as unrestored that have been returned purple was not a neccessity. In the past 14 months, 1 comic has been returned for resto. before that, 4 others for that reason, all but one well under $200. In all cases a complete reimbursement was made, the refund + CGC fees + all postage, to an from me and to and from CGC.

In the past 14 months by virtue of my unrestored submission findings, I consider myself on par with the best in the hobby a far as detection and resto disclosure goes.

 

I wouldn't state this if I thought there was someone who could prove otherwise.

 

Same exact work ethic as Dupcake and Koos. Dude, do you jack off at night thinking you have the wool over someone's eyes? Why are you such a that you can't just man up and tell everyone who you are. You're not much of a man, Danny. You either get off on it, or you're a big ol' big .

 

 

You speak of ethics and morality and then show such disrespect to someone that has been nothing but respectful here? This is the reason why I haven't the inclination to post much more on the subject.

[Chi Bamm]

funny thing is, even if I didn't respect the opinion of this many board members, I wouldn't trust this guy just from his two active threads. He doesn't answer certain questions because it's obvious he has no answer for them, he talks in circles, and the contradicts his own statements. Has made my night at work much more enjoyable to see him get his handed to him.

 

Exactly what I was thinking.

[DiceX]

He will refund for comics represented as unrestored that come back as restored by CGC - from experience he will have found that this is no longer worth the hassle for the higher end comics as most buyers willl CGC them and then ask for refunds

 

Refunds for comics represented as unrestored that have been returned purple was not a neccessity. In the past 14 months, 1 comic has been returned for resto. before that, 4 others for that reason, all but one well under $200. In all cases a complete reimbursement was made, the refund + CGC fees + all postage, to an from me and to and from CGC.

In the past 14 months by virtue of my unrestored submission findings, I consider myself on par with the best in the hobby a far as detection and resto disclosure goes.

 

I wouldn't state this if I thought there was someone who could prove otherwise.

 

Same exact work ethic as Dupcake and Koos. Dude, do you jack off at night thinking you have the wool over someone's eyes? Why are you such a that you can't just man up and tell everyone who you are. You're not much of a man, Danny. You either get off on it, or you're a big ol' big .

 

 

You speak of ethics and morality and then show such disrespect to someone that has been nothing but respectful here?

 

Smoke my sausage, Danny.

 

 

[John A III]

I don't know about the rest of the fourm members, but I don't bow down beforre CGC graders. I understand grading is an opinion, and fraud is a choice.

[ComicKing-migration]

funny thing is, even if I didn't respect the opinion of this many board members, I wouldn't trust this guy just from his two active threads. He doesn't answer certain questions because it's obvious he has no answer for them, he talks in circles, and the contradicts his own statements. Has made my night at work much more enjoyable to see him get his handed to him.

 

Exactly what I was thinking.

 

Could it be I'm talking in circles, because I'm answering endless, repetitive circles of questions?

 

I get done answering a question and I'm asked the same question again and again.

If you don't like the answer, make up the answer. That's what's done anyway, right?

[Chi Bamm]

I can't kill time like I did yesterday and post endlessly. The time just goes and before you know it, minutes turn into hours. I don't think most here realize just how much time they spend posting. Time that they someday may wish to God that they had back to spend in a different way.

I'm not avoiding anyone or anything, I just can't answer 50 prosecutors from the stand any better than I have been, and I can't kill today too with the posting.

This is why I wasn't being sarcastic when I stated that it was easier for me to simply pull the listings and destroy the books to make sure that nobody will ever get raw books that were once CGCed.

It's not a big deal to me but y'all live and die by CGC, and to you, disagreement with CGC is a crime. I don't see it that way, but I am respectful of your opinions. I have tons of books from original owner collections that I'm ure were never slabbed, I'll deal with them and leave it or someone to tell me that it was once slabbed and if they can provide proof, I'll destroy that too.

That appears to be the right thing to do, oddly enough, though I wouldn't have guessed it before yesterday.

Be back later, if I can find the time and inclination.

 

See, that's where you are getting it twisted. Most of us don't live and die by CGC standards. There are countless threads by many forum members who have called into question the grading of certain books. However, CGC has proven to be a RELIABLE source for grading. Much more reliable than persons grading on E-bay that tend to overgrade.

 

[ComicKing-migration]

I don't know about the rest of the fourm members, but I don't bow down beforre CGC graders. I understand grading is an opinion, and fraud is a choice.

 

Fraud is not a choice in my business. It's not even an option. Slavish adherence to CGC grades is my new policy. No more disagreement from me. Not even on books like this:

 

http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr337/Robotics223/AS44CGC80.jpg

[ComicKing-migration]

I can't kill time like I did yesterday and post endlessly. The time just goes and before you know it, minutes turn into hours. I don't think most here realize just how much time they spend posting. Time that they someday may wish to God that they had back to spend in a different way.

I'm not avoiding anyone or anything, I just can't answer 50 prosecutors from the stand any better than I have been, and I can't kill today too with the posting.

This is why I wasn't being sarcastic when I stated that it was easier for me to simply pull the listings and destroy the books to make sure that nobody will ever get raw books that were once CGCed.

It's not a big deal to me but y'all live and die by CGC, and to you, disagreement with CGC is a crime. I don't see it that way, but I am respectful of your opinions. I have tons of books from original owner collections that I'm ure were never slabbed, I'll deal with them and leave it or someone to tell me that it was once slabbed and if they can provide proof, I'll destroy that too.

That appears to be the right thing to do, oddly enough, though I wouldn't have guessed it before yesterday.

Be back later, if I can find the time and inclination.

 

See, that's where you are getting it twisted. Most of us don't live and die by CGC standards. There are countless threads by many forum members who have called into question the grading of certain books. However, CGC has proven to be a RELIABLE source for grading. Much more reliable than persons grading on E-bay that tend to overgrade.

 

So you have disagreed with CGC' grading on occasion? I'm not alone in disagreeing on occassion? That's the first time the option of disagreeing with a CGC grade has been mentioned as a posible option in this thread, isn't it?

That might be OK for you or anyone else here to disagree, but the gist I get from all the posts is that it's absolutely not OK for me to disagree. There seem to be a hypocritical double standard where I'm concerned. I don't appear to be given the option of disagreeing like everyone else in the hoby who chooses to do so.

 

Ironically, there are those implying that I disagree with every book CGC grades. In truth, I disagree with these three. Three is far from all, isn't it?