PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[thehumantorch]

Okay, re-listed and sold so in the end I sold the book, only it was a month after it originally sold.

 

I am for the time-out list.

 

case closed

toyman does not go on the pl

but has suffered the public humiliation of having their integrity questioned

wtf. BS he doesnt. How is that any kind of warning to the community??

 

Agreed, let's get OJ to go look for the missing check.

Edited December 13, 2012 by thehumantorch

[Green]

It does seem like this is the first time they have attempted to purchase something online... or perhaps I am just naive.

 

Now they say their new account has a negative balance. I don't think it matters. They made a transaction and then failed to follow through on it.

 

So, I recommend toyman be put on the probation list for not making payment on a buy in a reasonable amount of time.

 

If I need to post this somewhere else, please let me know. Thankfully this is the first time I have had to do this.

If he goes on the list, there needs to be a way for him to get off the list. If you resell the comics, what options does that leave him?

 

I know it's probably not a popular position, but I'm thinking if you resell them, he's off the hook. The PL isn't about punishment, it's a public place for people who've screwed up to linger until they make right.

 

I don't know Speedy. When I'm selling, I usually need the money to fund some other waste of money... like food, water, gas or my wife. Its should be ok to sell something if the "runaround" is evident.

 

And toyman, I'm not doubting you either... if you say you sent a check and he didnt get it, then maybe that happened. In fairness, all you would have had to do was stop payment on that check, then just send another correct? Easy peasy.

 

But if this is non payment then the majority of us (me and the dogs) feel non payment is PL worthy. I personally want to know this about a person if im the next guy he decides to purchase from... and the PL list is really the only way to know.

 

Heres a way to get him off the list... and I've bought it up as an option to the only person I've ever had to put on the list...

 

Pay whatever the amount owed to a deserving good cause or charity with proof to back up that payment.

 

Right now the Flatrock family would be a logical choice. Of course, theres always the CBLDF or the Hero Initiative that need monetary help too.

 

Just food for munchin'

I'm not a fan of the charity route. Yeah, it's a great thing to do, of course. But this is commerce, not charity. It doesn't seem fair to force someone to "throw their money away." They're here to buy comics, let's stick to that. The issue was exchanging money for comics. Why is it fair for the buyer to be forced to exchange his or her money for something he may not want, i.e. the warm fuzzies of charitable giving?

 

I'm still of the opinion that the PL is about getting specific transactions between two people completed.

 

Yeah, I hate charity also.

 

This is the imperfect nature of the PL list. A seller shouldn't be expected to sit on a book indefinitely waiting for a buyer to make good. A buyer should get something for their money, other than a rising Karma meter.

 

If someone should get the raw end of the deal it should be the individual who was naughty. That being said, it should be left up to the two parties involved to come to an agreeable compromise. The issue with that is when one party doesn't want to acquiesce and agree to a PL removal, even after an effort is made to correct the situation.

 

In those cases, the PL list should absolutely be used as a punishment. Bunch of tree huggers in these parts, rainbows and puppies types. If I have to jump through hoops and be stressed out because a seller screws me on a deal and doesn't send my books, why should I be forced to accept future penance.

 

Sometimes there are permanent repercussions to your actions, accept personal responsibility and move on.

 

Sidebar, this is not in response to the above situation, simply the list as a whole.

Because that's how the PL works. If you don't like it, or you don't think it'll work in a particular situation, then do something else. Flame them in CG, in all their threads, troll them ... do whatever you want, it's a free country right? But the PL is what it is, and it seems to do a pretty good job.

 

And as we've said before many times, if you're looking for permanent punishment, nominate them for the HoS. The PL is not permanent, it's about putting someone in a holding pen until they've completed their transaction.

 

NOW, GET OFF MY LAWN!!!

 

When did anyone besides yourself come to that conclusion? The purpose of the probation list is to warn the entire community of a problematic boardie. If that warning needs to be long term or even permanent, so be it.

 

If the concensus is someone cant be put on probation because they have no way to get off then just delete the thing. Its a goddam waste of a thread of that point.

 

In fact, i think i might lobby for something i think is very necessary. There should be a minimum term you have to serve on the list AFTER you have satisfied all offended parties.

[comicdonna]

Okay, re-listed and sold so in the end I sold the book, only it was a month after it originally sold.

 

I am for the time-out list.

 

case closed

toyman does not go on the pl

but has suffered the public humiliation of having their integrity questioned

wtf. BS he doesnt. How is that any kind of warning to the community??

I think he might be a she. Also, I agree with what you're saying. (thumbs u

[dopy02]

Okay, re-listed and sold so in the end I sold the book, only it was a month after it originally sold.

 

I am for the time-out list.

 

case closed

toyman does not go on the pl

but has suffered the public humiliation of having their integrity questioned

wtf. BS he doesnt. How is that any kind of warning to the community??

 

what am I missing?

are any of the following statements incorrect?

1. the seller did not wait the full 30 days for payment before relisting

2. the seller informed the prospective buyer that he would prefer to relist as opposed to waiting

3. the book is now sold so no true remedy is available

[Shark]

It does seem like this is the first time they have attempted to purchase something online... or perhaps I am just naive.

 

Now they say their new account has a negative balance. I don't think it matters. They made a transaction and then failed to follow through on it.

 

So, I recommend toyman be put on the probation list for not making payment on a buy in a reasonable amount of time.

 

If I need to post this somewhere else, please let me know. Thankfully this is the first time I have had to do this.

If he goes on the list, there needs to be a way for him to get off the list. If you resell the comics, what options does that leave him?

 

I know it's probably not a popular position, but I'm thinking if you resell them, he's off the hook. The PL isn't about punishment, it's a public place for people who've screwed up to linger until they make right.

 

I don't know Speedy. When I'm selling, I usually need the money to fund some other waste of money... like food, water, gas or my wife. Its should be ok to sell something if the "runaround" is evident.

 

And toyman, I'm not doubting you either... if you say you sent a check and he didnt get it, then maybe that happened. In fairness, all you would have had to do was stop payment on that check, then just send another correct? Easy peasy.

 

But if this is non payment then the majority of us (me and the dogs) feel non payment is PL worthy. I personally want to know this about a person if im the next guy he decides to purchase from... and the PL list is really the only way to know.

 

Heres a way to get him off the list... and I've bought it up as an option to the only person I've ever had to put on the list...

 

Pay whatever the amount owed to a deserving good cause or charity with proof to back up that payment.

 

Right now the Flatrock family would be a logical choice. Of course, theres always the CBLDF or the Hero Initiative that need monetary help too.

 

Just food for munchin'

I'm not a fan of the charity route. Yeah, it's a great thing to do, of course. But this is commerce, not charity. It doesn't seem fair to force someone to "throw their money away." They're here to buy comics, let's stick to that. The issue was exchanging money for comics. Why is it fair for the buyer to be forced to exchange his or her money for something he may not want, i.e. the warm fuzzies of charitable giving?

 

I'm still of the opinion that the PL is about getting specific transactions between two people completed.

 

Yeah, I hate charity also.

 

This is the imperfect nature of the PL list. A seller shouldn't be expected to sit on a book indefinitely waiting for a buyer to make good. A buyer should get something for their money, other than a rising Karma meter.

 

If someone should get the raw end of the deal it should be the individual who was naughty. That being said, it should be left up to the two parties involved to come to an agreeable compromise. The issue with that is when one party doesn't want to acquiesce and agree to a PL removal, even after an effort is made to correct the situation.

 

In those cases, the PL list should absolutely be used as a punishment. Bunch of tree huggers in these parts, rainbows and puppies types. If I have to jump through hoops and be stressed out because a seller screws me on a deal and doesn't send my books, why should I be forced to accept future penance.

 

Sometimes there are permanent repercussions to your actions, accept personal responsibility and move on.

 

Sidebar, this is not in response to the above situation, simply the list as a whole.

Because that's how the PL works. If you don't like it, or you don't think it'll work in a particular situation, then do something else. Flame them in CG, in all their threads, troll them ... do whatever you want, it's a free country right? But the PL is what it is, and it seems to do a pretty good job.

 

And as we've said before many times, if you're looking for permanent punishment, nominate them for the HoS. The PL is not permanent, it's about putting someone in a holding pen until they've completed their transaction.

 

NOW, GET OFF MY LAWN!!!

 

When did anyone besides yourself come to that conclusion? The purpose of the probation list is to warn the entire community of a problematic boardie. If that warning needs to be long term or even permanent, so be it.

 

If the concensus is someone cant be put on probation because they have no way to get off then just delete the thing. Its a goddam waste of a thread of that point.

 

In fact, i think i might lobby for something i think is very necessary. There should be a minimum term you have to serve on the list AFTER you have satisfied all offended parties.

 

I think that last statement is a great idea. After all, the initial culprit wasted the buyer's/seller's time for at least a month so why shouldn't they serve at least the same amount of time? Sort of an eye for an eye.

[Boozad]

It does seem like this is the first time they have attempted to purchase something online... or perhaps I am just naive.

 

Now they say their new account has a negative balance. I don't think it matters. They made a transaction and then failed to follow through on it.

 

So, I recommend toyman be put on the probation list for not making payment on a buy in a reasonable amount of time.

 

If I need to post this somewhere else, please let me know. Thankfully this is the first time I have had to do this.

If he goes on the list, there needs to be a way for him to get off the list. If you resell the comics, what options does that leave him?

 

I know it's probably not a popular position, but I'm thinking if you resell them, he's off the hook. The PL isn't about punishment, it's a public place for people who've screwed up to linger until they make right.

 

I don't know Speedy. When I'm selling, I usually need the money to fund some other waste of money... like food, water, gas or my wife. Its should be ok to sell something if the "runaround" is evident.

 

And toyman, I'm not doubting you either... if you say you sent a check and he didnt get it, then maybe that happened. In fairness, all you would have had to do was stop payment on that check, then just send another correct? Easy peasy.

 

But if this is non payment then the majority of us (me and the dogs) feel non payment is PL worthy. I personally want to know this about a person if im the next guy he decides to purchase from... and the PL list is really the only way to know.

 

Heres a way to get him off the list... and I've bought it up as an option to the only person I've ever had to put on the list...

 

Pay whatever the amount owed to a deserving good cause or charity with proof to back up that payment.

 

Right now the Flatrock family would be a logical choice. Of course, theres always the CBLDF or the Hero Initiative that need monetary help too.

 

Just food for munchin'

I'm not a fan of the charity route. Yeah, it's a great thing to do, of course. But this is commerce, not charity. It doesn't seem fair to force someone to "throw their money away." They're here to buy comics, let's stick to that. The issue was exchanging money for comics. Why is it fair for the buyer to be forced to exchange his or her money for something he may not want, i.e. the warm fuzzies of charitable giving?

 

I'm still of the opinion that the PL is about getting specific transactions between two people completed.

 

Yeah, I hate charity also.

 

This is the imperfect nature of the PL list. A seller shouldn't be expected to sit on a book indefinitely waiting for a buyer to make good. A buyer should get something for their money, other than a rising Karma meter.

 

If someone should get the raw end of the deal it should be the individual who was naughty. That being said, it should be left up to the two parties involved to come to an agreeable compromise. The issue with that is when one party doesn't want to acquiesce and agree to a PL removal, even after an effort is made to correct the situation.

 

In those cases, the PL list should absolutely be used as a punishment. Bunch of tree huggers in these parts, rainbows and puppies types. If I have to jump through hoops and be stressed out because a seller screws me on a deal and doesn't send my books, why should I be forced to accept future penance.

 

Sometimes there are permanent repercussions to your actions, accept personal responsibility and move on.

 

Sidebar, this is not in response to the above situation, simply the list as a whole.

Because that's how the PL works. If you don't like it, or you don't think it'll work in a particular situation, then do something else. Flame them in CG, in all their threads, troll them ... do whatever you want, it's a free country right? But the PL is what it is, and it seems to do a pretty good job.

 

And as we've said before many times, if you're looking for permanent punishment, nominate them for the HoS. The PL is not permanent, it's about putting someone in a holding pen until they've completed their transaction.

 

NOW, GET OFF MY LAWN!!!

 

When did anyone besides yourself come to that conclusion? The purpose of the probation list is to warn the entire community of a problematic boardie. If that warning needs to be long term or even permanent, so be it.

 

If the concensus is someone cant be put on probation because they have no way to get off then just delete the thing. Its a goddam waste of a thread of that point.

 

In fact, i think i might lobby for something i think is very necessary. There should be a minimum term you have to serve on the list AFTER you have satisfied all offended parties.

 

Agreed. Otherwise it would be OK to decide to not buy a book you said you would and never even get a sniff of being on the probie list. Completely defeats the object.

[zuulioso]

Okay, re-listed and sold so in the end I sold the book, only it was a month after it originally sold.

 

I am for the time-out list.

 

case closed

toyman does not go on the pl

but has suffered the public humiliation of having their integrity questioned

wtf. BS he doesnt. How is that any kind of warning to the community??

 

what am I missing?

are any of the following statements incorrect?

1. the seller did not wait the full 30 days for payment before relisting

2. the seller informed the prospective buyer that he would prefer to relist as opposed to waiting

3. the book is now sold so no true remedy is available

 

I hear you on this one. Had I realized I needed to wait 30 days, I would have gladly waited another two. It was merely an oversight, but the way our justice system works that would be enough to have the case thrown out.

 

I contend we do not have to mirror our justice system though.

[Speedy-D]

It does seem like this is the first time they have attempted to purchase something online... or perhaps I am just naive.

 

Now they say their new account has a negative balance. I don't think it matters. They made a transaction and then failed to follow through on it.

 

So, I recommend toyman be put on the probation list for not making payment on a buy in a reasonable amount of time.

 

If I need to post this somewhere else, please let me know. Thankfully this is the first time I have had to do this.

If he goes on the list, there needs to be a way for him to get off the list. If you resell the comics, what options does that leave him?

 

I know it's probably not a popular position, but I'm thinking if you resell them, he's off the hook. The PL isn't about punishment, it's a public place for people who've screwed up to linger until they make right.

 

I don't know Speedy. When I'm selling, I usually need the money to fund some other waste of money... like food, water, gas or my wife. Its should be ok to sell something if the "runaround" is evident.

 

And toyman, I'm not doubting you either... if you say you sent a check and he didnt get it, then maybe that happened. In fairness, all you would have had to do was stop payment on that check, then just send another correct? Easy peasy.

 

But if this is non payment then the majority of us (me and the dogs) feel non payment is PL worthy. I personally want to know this about a person if im the next guy he decides to purchase from... and the PL list is really the only way to know.

 

Heres a way to get him off the list... and I've bought it up as an option to the only person I've ever had to put on the list...

 

Pay whatever the amount owed to a deserving good cause or charity with proof to back up that payment.

 

Right now the Flatrock family would be a logical choice. Of course, theres always the CBLDF or the Hero Initiative that need monetary help too.

 

Just food for munchin'

I'm not a fan of the charity route. Yeah, it's a great thing to do, of course. But this is commerce, not charity. It doesn't seem fair to force someone to "throw their money away." They're here to buy comics, let's stick to that. The issue was exchanging money for comics. Why is it fair for the buyer to be forced to exchange his or her money for something he may not want, i.e. the warm fuzzies of charitable giving?

 

I'm still of the opinion that the PL is about getting specific transactions between two people completed.

 

Yeah, I hate charity also.

 

This is the imperfect nature of the PL list. A seller shouldn't be expected to sit on a book indefinitely waiting for a buyer to make good. A buyer should get something for their money, other than a rising Karma meter.

 

If someone should get the raw end of the deal it should be the individual who was naughty. That being said, it should be left up to the two parties involved to come to an agreeable compromise. The issue with that is when one party doesn't want to acquiesce and agree to a PL removal, even after an effort is made to correct the situation.

 

In those cases, the PL list should absolutely be used as a punishment. Bunch of tree huggers in these parts, rainbows and puppies types. If I have to jump through hoops and be stressed out because a seller screws me on a deal and doesn't send my books, why should I be forced to accept future penance.

 

Sometimes there are permanent repercussions to your actions, accept personal responsibility and move on.

 

Sidebar, this is not in response to the above situation, simply the list as a whole.

Because that's how the PL works. If you don't like it, or you don't think it'll work in a particular situation, then do something else. Flame them in CG, in all their threads, troll them ... do whatever you want, it's a free country right? But the PL is what it is, and it seems to do a pretty good job.

 

And as we've said before many times, if you're looking for permanent punishment, nominate them for the HoS. The PL is not permanent, it's about putting someone in a holding pen until they've completed their transaction.

 

NOW, GET OFF MY LAWN!!!

 

When did anyone besides yourself come to that conclusion? The purpose of the probation list is to warn the entire community of a problematic boardie. If that warning needs to be long term or even permanent, so be it.

 

If the concensus is someone cant be put on probation because they have no way to get off then just delete the thing. Its a goddam waste of a thread of that point.

 

In fact, i think i might lobby for something i think is very necessary. There should be a minimum term you have to serve on the list AFTER you have satisfied all offended parties.

I didn't make it up. Read the thing. It's all about how you rectify the situation to get yourself off the list. :shrug:

 

And for the millionth time, we have a place to put people as a permanent warning. It's called the Hall of Shame. How is this confusing to people?

 

As for a minimum term, go for it. Start a poll or whatever, see how people like it. No reason to get yer bloomers in a bunch. And keep in mind that there will have to be someone (you?) who keeps track of the list, the terms, the offense dates, etc., to groom the list properly.

[Green]

If by 'the thing' you mean the rules, i have read them. Both now and when we were making them. There are rules to be put on the list and ways for you to get off if you can and do rectify your situation. If you cant, or dont, you dont get to come off.

 

So where in the rules does it say or even elude to the fact that the probation list cannot be permanent?

[Sqeggs]

How about this: People can be put on the PL even if no way exists for them to do an immediate "make good" -- for example, the two cases I mentioned in a post yesterday where the book involved has been sold to someone else.

 

The way people in this situation get off is by coming to this thread and petitioning to do so. They could say something along the lines of: "I know I screwed up by taking a PM offer for a book after someone had posted the in the thread, but it's been two months (or whatever) and I would like to be reinstated."

 

What do you all think?

[architeuthis]

If by 'the thing' you mean the rules, i have read them. Both now and when we were making them. There are rules to be put on the list and ways for you to get off if you can and do rectify your situation. If you cant, or dont, you dont get to come off.

 

So where in the rules does it say or even elude to the fact that the probation list cannot be permanent?

 

Or, for that matter, who has been on it and is no longer? Perhaps I am overly cautious, but being new here and knowing virtually none of the sellers, I have read through this thread quite a few times looking for said sellers before posting an "I'll take it".

 

Like a credit report, if you've screwed up in the past and made good, it does have long term repercussions. While I appreciate and respect what it takes for a person to stand up, own up and make it right, it still doesn't make me overly eager to spend my money if it took public censure to do so.

 

A separate sub-list of redeemed members, perhaps? Expiring after a voted upon time period? My anyway, for what it's worth.

Edited December 13, 2012 by BronzeHorror

[Max Carnage]

I would like to nominate rawisokv - i bought books from his sales thread on 6 Nov and i still can't get a confirmation that they've even been sent. He just keeps saying "sorry for the delay - will get back to you"

Ugh, this one's a bummer.

I spoke to rawisokv, and hopefully this will be resolved tomorrow.

 

Sorry man. I just tried again.

 

Still no response. Can we add him then ?

[Green]

I would like to nominate rawisokv - i bought books from his sales thread on 6 Nov and i still can't get a confirmation that they've even been sent. He just keeps saying "sorry for the delay - will get back to you"

Ugh, this one's a bummer.

I spoke to rawisokv, and hopefully this will be resolved tomorrow.

 

Sorry man. I just tried again.

 

Still no response. Can we add him then ?

We are still looking for technicalities to let them off on

[Logan510]

It does seem like this is the first time they have attempted to purchase something online... or perhaps I am just naive.

 

Now they say their new account has a negative balance. I don't think it matters. They made a transaction and then failed to follow through on it.

 

So, I recommend toyman be put on the probation list for not making payment on a buy in a reasonable amount of time.

 

If I need to post this somewhere else, please let me know. Thankfully this is the first time I have had to do this.

If he goes on the list, there needs to be a way for him to get off the list. If you resell the comics, what options does that leave him?

 

I know it's probably not a popular position, but I'm thinking if you resell them, he's off the hook. The PL isn't about punishment, it's a public place for people who've screwed up to linger until they make right.

 

I don't know Speedy. When I'm selling, I usually need the money to fund some other waste of money... like food, water, gas or my wife. Its should be ok to sell something if the "runaround" is evident.

 

And toyman, I'm not doubting you either... if you say you sent a check and he didnt get it, then maybe that happened. In fairness, all you would have had to do was stop payment on that check, then just send another correct? Easy peasy.

 

But if this is non payment then the majority of us (me and the dogs) feel non payment is PL worthy. I personally want to know this about a person if im the next guy he decides to purchase from... and the PL list is really the only way to know.

 

Heres a way to get him off the list... and I've bought it up as an option to the only person I've ever had to put on the list...

 

Pay whatever the amount owed to a deserving good cause or charity with proof to back up that payment.

 

Right now the Flatrock family would be a logical choice. Of course, theres always the CBLDF or the Hero Initiative that need monetary help too.

 

Just food for munchin'

I'm not a fan of the charity route. Yeah, it's a great thing to do, of course. But this is commerce, not charity. It doesn't seem fair to force someone to "throw their money away." They're here to buy comics, let's stick to that. The issue was exchanging money for comics. Why is it fair for the buyer to be forced to exchange his or her money for something he may not want, i.e. the warm fuzzies of charitable giving?

 

I'm still of the opinion that the PL is about getting specific transactions between two people completed.

 

Yeah, I hate charity also.

 

This is the imperfect nature of the PL list. A seller shouldn't be expected to sit on a book indefinitely waiting for a buyer to make good. A buyer should get something for their money, other than a rising Karma meter.

 

If someone should get the raw end of the deal it should be the individual who was naughty. That being said, it should be left up to the two parties involved to come to an agreeable compromise. The issue with that is when one party doesn't want to acquiesce and agree to a PL removal, even after an effort is made to correct the situation.

 

In those cases, the PL list should absolutely be used as a punishment. Bunch of tree huggers in these parts, rainbows and puppies types. If I have to jump through hoops and be stressed out because a seller screws me on a deal and doesn't send my books, why should I be forced to accept future penance.

 

Sometimes there are permanent repercussions to your actions, accept personal responsibility and move on.

 

Sidebar, this is not in response to the above situation, simply the list as a whole.

Because that's how the PL works. If you don't like it, or you don't think it'll work in a particular situation, then do something else. Flame them in CG, in all their threads, troll them ... do whatever you want, it's a free country right? But the PL is what it is, and it seems to do a pretty good job.

 

And as we've said before many times, if you're looking for permanent punishment, nominate them for the HoS. The PL is not permanent, it's about putting someone in a holding pen until they've completed their transaction.

 

NOW, GET OFF MY LAWN!!!

 

When did anyone besides yourself come to that conclusion? The purpose of the probation list is to warn the entire community of a problematic boardie. If that warning needs to be long term or even permanent, so be it.

 

If the concensus is someone cant be put on probation because they have no way to get off then just delete the thing. Its a goddam waste of a thread of that point.

 

In fact, i think i might lobby for something i think is very necessary. There should be a minimum term you have to serve on the list AFTER you have satisfied all offended parties.

I didn't make it up. Read the thing. It's all about how you rectify the situation to get yourself off the list. :shrug:

 

And for the millionth time, we have a place to put people as a permanent warning. It's called the Hall of Shame. How is this confusing to people?

 

As for a minimum term, go for it. Start a poll or whatever, see how people like it. No reason to get yer bloomers in a bunch. And keep in mind that there will have to be someone (you?) who keeps track of the list, the terms, the offense dates, etc., to groom the list properly.

 

 

Are Hall of Shamers allowed to sell as well as buy here?

 

I'm also curious about if someone comes off the PL should they be totally exonerated?

[youfoundjake]

No.

People here tend to have a memory, so not so much

.

 

 

It does seem like this is the first time they have attempted to purchase something online... or perhaps I am just naive.

 

Now they say their new account has a negative balance. I don't think it matters. They made a transaction and then failed to follow through on it.

 

So, I recommend toyman be put on the probation list for not making payment on a buy in a reasonable amount of time.

 

If I need to post this somewhere else, please let me know. Thankfully this is the first time I have had to do this.

If he goes on the list, there needs to be a way for him to get off the list. If you resell the comics, what options does that leave him?

 

I know it's probably not a popular position, but I'm thinking if you resell them, he's off the hook. The PL isn't about punishment, it's a public place for people who've screwed up to linger until they make right.

 

I don't know Speedy. When I'm selling, I usually need the money to fund some other waste of money... like food, water, gas or my wife. Its should be ok to sell something if the "runaround" is evident.

 

And toyman, I'm not doubting you either... if you say you sent a check and he didnt get it, then maybe that happened. In fairness, all you would have had to do was stop payment on that check, then just send another correct? Easy peasy.

 

But if this is non payment then the majority of us (me and the dogs) feel non payment is PL worthy. I personally want to know this about a person if im the next guy he decides to purchase from... and the PL list is really the only way to know.

 

Heres a way to get him off the list... and I've bought it up as an option to the only person I've ever had to put on the list...

 

Pay whatever the amount owed to a deserving good cause or charity with proof to back up that payment.

 

Right now the Flatrock family would be a logical choice. Of course, theres always the CBLDF or the Hero Initiative that need monetary help too.

 

Just food for munchin'

I'm not a fan of the charity route. Yeah, it's a great thing to do, of course. But this is commerce, not charity. It doesn't seem fair to force someone to "throw their money away." They're here to buy comics, let's stick to that. The issue was exchanging money for comics. Why is it fair for the buyer to be forced to exchange his or her money for something he may not want, i.e. the warm fuzzies of charitable giving?

 

I'm still of the opinion that the PL is about getting specific transactions between two people completed.

 

Yeah, I hate charity also.

 

This is the imperfect nature of the PL list. A seller shouldn't be expected to sit on a book indefinitely waiting for a buyer to make good. A buyer should get something for their money, other than a rising Karma meter.

 

If someone should get the raw end of the deal it should be the individual who was naughty. That being said, it should be left up to the two parties involved to come to an agreeable compromise. The issue with that is when one party doesn't want to acquiesce and agree to a PL removal, even after an effort is made to correct the situation.

 

In those cases, the PL list should absolutely be used as a punishment. Bunch of tree huggers in these parts, rainbows and puppies types. If I have to jump through hoops and be stressed out because a seller screws me on a deal and doesn't send my books, why should I be forced to accept future penance.

 

Sometimes there are permanent repercussions to your actions, accept personal responsibility and move on.

 

Sidebar, this is not in response to the above situation, simply the list as a whole.

Because that's how the PL works. If you don't like it, or you don't think it'll work in a particular situation, then do something else. Flame them in CG, in all their threads, troll them ... do whatever you want, it's a free country right? But the PL is what it is, and it seems to do a pretty good job.

 

And as we've said before many times, if you're looking for permanent punishment, nominate them for the HoS. The PL is not permanent, it's about putting someone in a holding pen until they've completed their transaction.

 

NOW, GET OFF MY LAWN!!!

 

When did anyone besides yourself come to that conclusion? The purpose of the probation list is to warn the entire community of a problematic boardie. If that warning needs to be long term or even permanent, so be it.

 

If the concensus is someone cant be put on probation because they have no way to get off then just delete the thing. Its a goddam waste of a thread of that point.

 

In fact, i think i might lobby for something i think is very necessary. There should be a minimum term you have to serve on the list AFTER you have satisfied all offended parties.

I didn't make it up. Read the thing. It's all about how you rectify the situation to get yourself off the list. :shrug:

 

And for the millionth time, we have a place to put people as a permanent warning. It's called the Hall of Shame. How is this confusing to people?

 

As for a minimum term, go for it. Start a poll or whatever, see how people like it. No reason to get yer bloomers in a bunch. And keep in mind that there will have to be someone (you?) who keeps track of the list, the terms, the offense dates, etc., to groom the list properly.

 

 

Are Hall of Shamers allowed to sell as well as buy here?

 

I'm also curious about if someone comes off the PL should they be totally exonerated?

[Speedy-D]

It does seem like this is the first time they have attempted to purchase something online... or perhaps I am just naive.

 

Now they say their new account has a negative balance. I don't think it matters. They made a transaction and then failed to follow through on it.

 

So, I recommend toyman be put on the probation list for not making payment on a buy in a reasonable amount of time.

 

If I need to post this somewhere else, please let me know. Thankfully this is the first time I have had to do this.

If he goes on the list, there needs to be a way for him to get off the list. If you resell the comics, what options does that leave him?

 

I know it's probably not a popular position, but I'm thinking if you resell them, he's off the hook. The PL isn't about punishment, it's a public place for people who've screwed up to linger until they make right.

 

I don't know Speedy. When I'm selling, I usually need the money to fund some other waste of money... like food, water, gas or my wife. Its should be ok to sell something if the "runaround" is evident.

 

And toyman, I'm not doubting you either... if you say you sent a check and he didnt get it, then maybe that happened. In fairness, all you would have had to do was stop payment on that check, then just send another correct? Easy peasy.

 

But if this is non payment then the majority of us (me and the dogs) feel non payment is PL worthy. I personally want to know this about a person if im the next guy he decides to purchase from... and the PL list is really the only way to know.

 

Heres a way to get him off the list... and I've bought it up as an option to the only person I've ever had to put on the list...

 

Pay whatever the amount owed to a deserving good cause or charity with proof to back up that payment.

 

Right now the Flatrock family would be a logical choice. Of course, theres always the CBLDF or the Hero Initiative that need monetary help too.

 

Just food for munchin'

I'm not a fan of the charity route. Yeah, it's a great thing to do, of course. But this is commerce, not charity. It doesn't seem fair to force someone to "throw their money away." They're here to buy comics, let's stick to that. The issue was exchanging money for comics. Why is it fair for the buyer to be forced to exchange his or her money for something he may not want, i.e. the warm fuzzies of charitable giving?

 

I'm still of the opinion that the PL is about getting specific transactions between two people completed.

 

Yeah, I hate charity also.

 

This is the imperfect nature of the PL list. A seller shouldn't be expected to sit on a book indefinitely waiting for a buyer to make good. A buyer should get something for their money, other than a rising Karma meter.

 

If someone should get the raw end of the deal it should be the individual who was naughty. That being said, it should be left up to the two parties involved to come to an agreeable compromise. The issue with that is when one party doesn't want to acquiesce and agree to a PL removal, even after an effort is made to correct the situation.

 

In those cases, the PL list should absolutely be used as a punishment. Bunch of tree huggers in these parts, rainbows and puppies types. If I have to jump through hoops and be stressed out because a seller screws me on a deal and doesn't send my books, why should I be forced to accept future penance.

 

Sometimes there are permanent repercussions to your actions, accept personal responsibility and move on.

 

Sidebar, this is not in response to the above situation, simply the list as a whole.

Because that's how the PL works. If you don't like it, or you don't think it'll work in a particular situation, then do something else. Flame them in CG, in all their threads, troll them ... do whatever you want, it's a free country right? But the PL is what it is, and it seems to do a pretty good job.

 

And as we've said before many times, if you're looking for permanent punishment, nominate them for the HoS. The PL is not permanent, it's about putting someone in a holding pen until they've completed their transaction.

 

NOW, GET OFF MY LAWN!!!

 

When did anyone besides yourself come to that conclusion? The purpose of the probation list is to warn the entire community of a problematic boardie. If that warning needs to be long term or even permanent, so be it.

 

If the concensus is someone cant be put on probation because they have no way to get off then just delete the thing. Its a goddam waste of a thread of that point.

 

In fact, i think i might lobby for something i think is very necessary. There should be a minimum term you have to serve on the list AFTER you have satisfied all offended parties.

I didn't make it up. Read the thing. It's all about how you rectify the situation to get yourself off the list. :shrug:

 

And for the millionth time, we have a place to put people as a permanent warning. It's called the Hall of Shame. How is this confusing to people?

 

As for a minimum term, go for it. Start a poll or whatever, see how people like it. No reason to get yer bloomers in a bunch. And keep in mind that there will have to be someone (you?) who keeps track of the list, the terms, the offense dates, etc., to groom the list properly.

 

 

Are Hall of Shamers allowed to sell as well as buy here?

 

I'm also curious about if someone comes off the PL should they be totally exonerated?

The mods haven't done anything to prevent them from buying/selling, if that's what you mean.

[Speedy-D]

If by 'the thing' you mean the rules, i have read them. Both now and when we were making them. There are rules to be put on the list and ways for you to get off if you can and do rectify your situation. If you cant, or dont, you dont get to come off.

 

So where in the rules does it say or even elude to the fact that the probation list cannot be permanent?

*sigh* UNCLE!

[Green]

 

Hell dude, i dont wanna fight. I know we are on the same side. You do a lot to resolve problems, im not ignorant of that and i appreciate it. But the comment you made below is not just unpopular, it completely undermines the system. Not just in this situation, but the entire train of thought of needing to make sure anyone who gets put on probation must have a way off is ridiculous. They get themselves on the list, it is their responsibility to worry about getting themselves off.

 

 

 

If he goes on the list, there needs to be a way for him to get off the list. If you resell the comics, what options does that leave him?

 

I know it's probably not a popular position, but I'm thinking if you resell them, he's off the hook.

[crassus]

 

Hell dude, i dont wanna fight. I know we are on the same side. You do a lot to resolve problems, im not ignorant of that and i appreciate it. But the comment you made below is not just unpopular, it completely undermines the system. Not just in this situation, but the entire train of thought of needing to make sure anyone who gets put on probation must have a way off is ridiculous. They get themselves on the list, it is their responsibility to worry about getting themselves off.

 

If he goes on the list, there needs to be a way for him to get off the list. If you resell the comics, what options does that leave him?

 

I know it's probably not a popular position, but I'm thinking if you resell them, he's off the hook.

 

In fairness to Speedy-D its not ridiculous to argue that probation must come with at least reasonably clear conditions for getting off the PL, the common usage of "on probation" assumes this. Students, for example, are routinely put on "academic probation" at school for poor grades, but there is always a clear standard in place for students to get off probation and back to "good academic standing".

 

I would agree the issues are more complicated here, as grades at school are finally only numbers, but its not in principle less necessary for the person on the PL here to have a clear sense of what will fix the problem.

[Green]

 

Hell dude, i dont wanna fight. I know we are on the same side. You do a lot to resolve problems, im not ignorant of that and i appreciate it. But the comment you made below is not just unpopular, it completely undermines the system. Not just in this situation, but the entire train of thought of needing to make sure anyone who gets put on probation must have a way off is ridiculous. They get themselves on the list, it is their responsibility to worry about getting themselves off.

 

If he goes on the list, there needs to be a way for him to get off the list. If you resell the comics, what options does that leave him?

 

I know it's probably not a popular position, but I'm thinking if you resell them, he's off the hook.

 

In fairness to Speedy-D its not ridiculous to argue that probation must come with at least reasonably clear conditions for getting off the PL, the common usage of "on probation" assumes this. Students, for example, are routinely put on "academic probation" at school for poor grades, but there is always a clear standard in place for students to get off probation and back to "good academic standing".

 

I would agree the issues are more complicated here, as grades at school are finally only numbers, but its not in principle less necessary for the person on the PL here to have a clear sense of what will fix the problem.

 

I would say that 4a-4c of the probation list rules are reasonably clear ways to get off. If you bone yourself well enough to be in a position where you cant get one of those option to happen, get creative or fall off the world.

 

What you dont get is a free pass because someone else cant figure out how to get you off probation.