Copper's Heating/Selling Well on Ebay 33 33

[Lazyboy]

.. but the first appearance of every single throwaway character can't really be considered a key, or there would be more keys than non-keys.

 

Many "keys" are trivial and uninteresting. What people are doing now is fabricating keys, and hoping people swallow the hook. Dealers with stockpiles of junk are happy to oblige, and all the "experts" keep spouting "quality over quantity". What that means, in practical terms, is that a new kid who starts collecting should spend $10 on a Wolverine 80, instead of buying the 10 issues before or after and reading them, even if the only reason he should want it is a test tube marked X-23.

 

What is wrong with Wolverine 80 as a key comic? X-23 is a clone after all.

 

I got no beef with it. A very popular character. If I was a huge fan of X-23 (and there are plenty), seems reasonable to want it. Is it a major genre defining key? Most likely not.

 

As always, people should buy and sell according to their own collecting/financial preferences. No need for judgment or dismissal of other peoples collecting preferences, as long as transactions are done honestly (or at least in good faith), and the facts are right.

 

But is there actually any official relationship between Wolverine 80 and X-23? Or is it just some trivial thing some fan noticed while reading Wolverine 80 after X-23 became hot? I have no idea, since I have virtually zero interest in any Marvel comic made since X-23 debuted.

[revat]

.. but the first appearance of every single throwaway character can't really be considered a key, or there would be more keys than non-keys.

 

Many "keys" are trivial and uninteresting. What people are doing now is fabricating keys, and hoping people swallow the hook. Dealers with stockpiles of junk are happy to oblige, and all the "experts" keep spouting "quality over quantity". What that means, in practical terms, is that a new kid who starts collecting should spend $10 on a Wolverine 80, instead of buying the 10 issues before or after and reading them, even if the only reason he should want it is a test tube marked X-23.

 

What is wrong with Wolverine 80 as a key comic? X-23 is a clone after all.

 

I got no beef with it. A very popular character. If I was a huge fan of X-23 (and there are plenty), seems reasonable to want it. Is it a major genre defining key? Most likely not.

 

As always, people should buy and sell according to their own collecting/financial preferences. No need for judgment or dismissal of other peoples collecting preferences, as long as transactions are done honestly (or at least in good faith), and the facts are right.

 

But is there actually any official relationship between Wolverine 80 and X-23? Or is it just some trivial thing some fan noticed while reading Wolverine 80 after X-23 became hot? I have no idea, since I have virtually zero interest in any Marvel comic made since X-23 debuted.

 

There's a scientist with a test tube labeled 'Logan X-23' on it.

[spideysenses78]

I agree. What if Peter Parker's parents appeared in AF14, would people be able to call that issue Peter's 1st appearance?

[kimik]

Maybe if there was a test tube with "Papa Parker's secret sauce - AF 15" on it?

[paperheart]

I agree. What if Peter Parker's parents appeared in AF14, would people be able to call that issue Peter's 1st appearance?

 

if they were shown doing the deed...

[divad]

I agree. What if Peter Parker's parents appeared in AF14, would people be able to call that issue Peter's 1st appearance?

 

if they were shown doing the deed...

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

For collectors of Rocket Racer, his first appearance is a key for that character. It's just there aren't many collectors of Rocket Racer, so most don't acknowledge the book as a key. For collectors of Spider-man, his wedding is certainly a key issue. It's true that there are a lot of books that are keys for more general reasons that appeal to a wide variety of collectors, and those understandably are more valuable and considered more important keys.

 

So, by this logic, every single book ever printed could be deemed a "key issue" by a sub-section of the hobby?

 

Fine, but we're talking about "hobby-wide keys" that have been accepted as important books by a significant portion of the collecting base.

I don't see how the first point is true. It's not even close to every first issue that features a first appearance or some other milestone event in a character's history.

 

Of course it can, as once you get down to pure minutiae like this, virtually *every* comic printed is special in some way. First, second, third appearance, artist, writer, cover appearance, large/medium/small event, co-star appearances, etc. There are many different types of "key" issues.

 

It all depends on your point of view, just like the Spidey-centric collectors who believe the MJ marriage is the be-all-end of keys. I bet there are some Flash Thompson fanboys who believe the issue he went to Viet Nam, graduated college, or got married are big keys too, again, from their POV.

I don't recall anyone saying the annual was the "be-all-end of keys," just that it was a key. Maybe not high-end-of-the-spectrum key, but a key.

[joe_collector]

I agree. What if Peter Parker's parents appeared in AF14, would people be able to call that issue Peter's 1st appearance?

 

Depending on your view of Peter's genetic parentage, Aunt May and Uncle Ben did appear earlier, so....

[joe_collector]

Flash Thompson is/has been the star of his own top selling comic book of a flagship title?

 

Who cares?

 

You're using your own specific criteria to describe everyone (a common fault on here) when there are various "key" issues that do not involve " the star of his own top selling comic book of a flagship title", right? The point is that there are Flash Thompson fans in the world, and that sub-section of the hobby would certainly view his life-changing moments as "key" to their own collecting viewpoint.

 

To me, Spider-man getting married doesn't amount to 2 dead flies, as the character design just doesn't work with a hot model-wife, kids, mortgage, etc. - that's why Marvel killed off the baby, got rid of MJ for a bit, then retconned the entire marriage into oblivion.

 

The exact same thing will happen with this latest retcon, and years from now, they'll be retconned apart again.

[Jaydogrules]

Flash Thompson is/has been the star of his own top selling comic book of a flagship title?

 

Who cares?

 

You're using your own specific criteria to describe everyone (a common fault on here) when there are various "key" issues that do not involve " the star of his own top selling comic book of a flagship title", right? The point is that there are Flash Thompson fans in the world, and that sub-section of the hobby would certainly view his life-changing moments as "key" to their own collecting viewpoint.

 

To me, Spider-man getting married doesn't amount to 2 dead flies, as the character design just doesn't work with a hot model-wife, kids, mortgage, etc. - that's why Marvel killed off the baby, got rid of MJ for a bit, then retconned the entire marriage into oblivion.

 

The exact same thing will happen with this latest retcon, and years from now, they'll be retconned apart again.

 

I think comparing anything that happened to Flash Thompson to Spider-Man in the ASM run is the epitome of a false analogy, to put it mildly.

 

And your opinion of the marriage and what was done to MJ and especially the kid is just that- your opinion. The marriage "worked" for 25 years, and many, many fans hated and resented the ret-con. I would reckon yours is even a minority opinion among long time fans. So now we're seeing a married Peter again. Only goes to further exemplify the "keyness" of the wedding issue as a seminal Spidey moment.

 

-J.

 

 

[Logan510]

Flash Thompson is/has been the star of his own top selling comic book of a flagship title?

 

Who cares?

 

You're using your own specific criteria to describe everyone (a common fault on here) when there are various "key" issues that do not involve " the star of his own top selling comic book of a flagship title", right? The point is that there are Flash Thompson fans in the world, and that sub-section of the hobby would certainly view his life-changing moments as "key" to their own collecting viewpoint.

 

To me, Spider-man getting married doesn't amount to 2 dead flies, as the character design just doesn't work with a hot model-wife, kids, mortgage, etc. - that's why Marvel killed off the baby, got rid of MJ for a bit, then retconned the entire marriage into oblivion.

 

The exact same thing will happen with this latest retcon, and years from now, they'll be retconned apart again.

 

I think comparing anything that happened to Flash Thompson to Spider-Man in the ASM run is the epitome of a false analogy, to put it mildly.

 

And your opinion of the marriage and what was done to MJ and especially the kid is just that- your opinion. The marriage "worked" for 25 years, and many, many fans hated and resented the ret-con. I would reckon yours is even a minority opinion among long time fans. So now we're seeing a married Peter again. Only goes to further exemplify the "keyness" of the wedding issue as a seminal Spidey moment.

 

-J.

 

 

Depends on how "longtime" the fan is. I'm also of the mind that Spider-Man getting married was one of the worst things that happened to the character.

 

What made Spider-Man popular and relatable? He was a nerdy outsider who had girl trouble and money problems. Things that most average teenage boys can relate to. Successful photo-journalist, married to a hot super model...not quite so relatable.

[revat]

Flash Thompson is/has been the star of his own top selling comic book of a flagship title?

 

Who cares?

 

You're using your own specific criteria to describe everyone (a common fault on here) when there are various "key" issues that do not involve " the star of his own top selling comic book of a flagship title", right? The point is that there are Flash Thompson fans in the world, and that sub-section of the hobby would certainly view his life-changing moments as "key" to their own collecting viewpoint.

 

To me, Spider-man getting married doesn't amount to 2 dead flies, as the character design just doesn't work with a hot model-wife, kids, mortgage, etc. - that's why Marvel killed off the baby, got rid of MJ for a bit, then retconned the entire marriage into oblivion.

 

The exact same thing will happen with this latest retcon, and years from now, they'll be retconned apart again.

 

I think comparing anything that happened to Flash Thompson to Spider-Man in the ASM run is the epitome of a false analogy, to put it mildly.

 

And your opinion of the marriage and what was done to MJ and especially the kid is just that- your opinion. The marriage "worked" for 25 years, and many, many fans hated and resented the ret-con. I would reckon yours is even a minority opinion among long time fans. So now we're seeing a married Peter again. Only goes to further exemplify the "keyness" of the wedding issue as a seminal Spidey moment.

 

-J.

 

 

Depends on how "longtime" the fan is. I'm also of the mind that Spider-Man getting married was one of the worst things that happened to the character.

 

What made Spider-Man popular and relatable? He was a nerdy outsider who had girl trouble and money problems. Things that most average teenage boys can relate to. Successful photo-journalist, married to a hot super model...not quite so relatable.

 

I think weather you liked the wedding or did not like it, both sides are arguing for the 'keyness' of the issue. Either way it signified something significant, even if it was something you didn't like. It made an impact. That's key.

[davedawgbg]

I agree. What if Peter Parker's parents appeared in AF14, would people be able to call that issue Peter's 1st appearance?

 

if they were shown doing the deed...

 

If memory serves, the title was originally called "Amazing Adult Fantasy" . . .

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

Flash Thompson is/has been the star of his own top selling comic book of a flagship title?

 

Who cares?

 

You're using your own specific criteria to describe everyone (a common fault on here) when there are various "key" issues that do not involve " the star of his own top selling comic book of a flagship title", right? The point is that there are Flash Thompson fans in the world, and that sub-section of the hobby would certainly view his life-changing moments as "key" to their own collecting viewpoint.

 

To me, Spider-man getting married doesn't amount to 2 dead flies, as the character design just doesn't work with a hot model-wife, kids, mortgage, etc. - that's why Marvel killed off the baby, got rid of MJ for a bit, then retconned the entire marriage into oblivion.

 

The exact same thing will happen with this latest retcon, and years from now, they'll be retconned apart again.

By this logic, Amazing Spider-man 121 is not a key, because Spider-Gwen.

[Logan510]

Flash Thompson is/has been the star of his own top selling comic book of a flagship title?

 

Who cares?

 

You're using your own specific criteria to describe everyone (a common fault on here) when there are various "key" issues that do not involve " the star of his own top selling comic book of a flagship title", right? The point is that there are Flash Thompson fans in the world, and that sub-section of the hobby would certainly view his life-changing moments as "key" to their own collecting viewpoint.

 

To me, Spider-man getting married doesn't amount to 2 dead flies, as the character design just doesn't work with a hot model-wife, kids, mortgage, etc. - that's why Marvel killed off the baby, got rid of MJ for a bit, then retconned the entire marriage into oblivion.

 

The exact same thing will happen with this latest retcon, and years from now, they'll be retconned apart again.

 

I think comparing anything that happened to Flash Thompson to Spider-Man in the ASM run is the epitome of a false analogy, to put it mildly.

 

And your opinion of the marriage and what was done to MJ and especially the kid is just that- your opinion. The marriage "worked" for 25 years, and many, many fans hated and resented the ret-con. I would reckon yours is even a minority opinion among long time fans. So now we're seeing a married Peter again. Only goes to further exemplify the "keyness" of the wedding issue as a seminal Spidey moment.

 

-J.

 

 

Depends on how "longtime" the fan is. I'm also of the mind that Spider-Man getting married was one of the worst things that happened to the character.

 

What made Spider-Man popular and relatable? He was a nerdy outsider who had girl trouble and money problems. Things that most average teenage boys can relate to. Successful photo-journalist, married to a hot super model...not quite so relatable.

 

I think weather you liked the wedding or did not like it, both sides are arguing for the 'keyness' of the issue. Either way it signified something significant, even if it was something you didn't like. It made an impact. That's key.

 

I wouldn't argue that it's not a key...or at least a semi / minor key.

[Lonzilla]

I agree. What if Peter Parker's parents appeared in AF14, would people be able to call that issue Peter's 1st appearance?

 

Depending on your view of Peter's genetic parentage, Aunt May and Uncle Ben did appear earlier, so....

Nah, it's just that Ditko's talent for drawing different faces was limited

[joe_collector]

[Depends on how "longtime" the fan is. I'm also of the mind that Spider-Man getting married was one of the worst things that happened to the character.

 

What made Spider-Man popular and relatable? He was a nerdy outsider who had girl trouble and money problems. Things that most average teenage boys can relate to. Successful photo-journalist, married to a hot super model...not quite so relatable.

 

Exactly, and this was also Marvel's opinion (as well as many of his creators) who thought it was a very bad idea to have him married to a supermodel, but didn't want to have them divorce and make things worse.

 

That was also quoted as a reason for the Ultimate Spider-man line, to get Peter Parker back to his base of being "a nerdy outsider who had girl trouble and money problems. Things that most average teenage boys can relate to."

[joe_collector]

By this logic, Amazing Spider-man 121 is not a key, because Spider-Gwen.

 

Nope, because no one in their right mind cares a whit about Modern drek.

 

I mean, just look at the latest "Marvel revamp" - barf!

[joe_collector]

I think weather you liked the wedding or did not like it, both sides are arguing for the 'keyness' of the issue. Either way it signified something significant, even if it was something you didn't like. It made an impact. That's key.

 

Then your overly-wide definition of a "key issue" is much too lax for me and most of the hobby.

 

That's why I brought up the Flash Thompson "key issues", not to have you nerds debate their "keyness" but to demonstrate perspective and show that you feel the same way about Flash going to Viet Nam (an important issue at the time) as I do about Peter and MJ getting hitched.

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

Grab your Punisher minis now…

 

http://radio.com/2015/06/09/walking-dead-jon-bernthal-cast-as-punisher-netflix-daredevil-season-2/