Ive lost ALL confidence in CGC - UPDATE on page 221 2 2

[stanley1883]

 

This part is up to all of us. PGX trashed their rep, the Vault is still new and I haven't heard of any concrete proof of wrong doing. The problem isn't with CGC in this aspect but rather all of us. For every 10 of us that say, screw CGC lets try the Vault or whatever new company pops up, there will at least be another 10 who best case scenario, don't care and keep going to CGC. People are so used to them that it's next to impossible to dethrone them.

 

CGC didn't create monopoly, we the consumers gave them one. Someone has a PGX book we laugh and criticize, same thing with the Vault.

 

We created this, it's our faults. I'm just as guilty, if I wanted a book graded, I go to CGC because people seemingly lose credibility if they don't.

 

Well, maybe. The problem with monopolies is that they are created by circumstance, that is, it's not necessarily what the market will bear, but what the consumer will bear in terms of acceptable choices. Your choices disappear many times over when, as it was mentioned in this thread already, CGC engages in acts to manage your ability to make a choice, like engaging in marketing agreements with vendors and retailers across the board, making it legally impossible for other companies that want to be in the business of grading comics to gain any sort of marketshare, which allows consumers to enjoy the results of competing businesses.

 

The problem is that, at least in this industry, nothing has to change: this isn't regulated by any law, which serves as the basis for those cases you read about between Microsoft and whoever.

 

In the end, I really don't believe "we created it," but I also believe that it was completely inevitable, considering the (lack of) circumstances to stop it.

 

I cannot accept the fact that if we stop submitting to CGC all together that those agreements will remain in place. Exit clauses and contract terminations will be abundant. Let's say a new grading service comes up and we start submitting to them, and I don't mean some of us, I mean the vast, vast majority. CGC's market share evaporates to single digits. Your saying those vendors and retailers won't break those contracts and jump onto this new grading company? Of course they will, companies go where the money is, as it happens basically all of the money is with CGC right now, and guess who gave it to them?

[stanley1883]

Money always changes things, faster than law does too. Regulation or no regulation, irrelevant, people care about money, whomever we pay to grade our comics will be King of the Hill. Period.

Edited March 31, 2014 by stanley1883

[Bomber-Bob]

It was mentioned that most of the CGC staff was in Seattle ? If so, they have an out here. Just say it was a simple clerical error due to staffing issues.

I know I've seen plenty of errors on the label from the wrong issue number to the wrong series. It's not only an out but may be what really happened.

[THE_BEYONDER]

I have a feeling CGC will come to an end......NOT when a viable competitor surfaces....but when this Age of Encapsulation comes to an end.

 

Someday we'll all realize how silly slabbing comics really is....

 

 

Time for bed. Hopefully I'll wake up tomorrow to discover the last 10 years of this encapsulation nonsense was nothing but a bad dream.

[Broke as a Joke]

Grading and entombing comics is not a bad idea. It comes down to the integrity of those offering this service.

[Mmanick]

Grading and entombing comics is not a bad idea. It comes down to the integrity of those offering this service.

 

+1 money is always going to be the root of all problems though.

[loadstone]

This was briefly touched on but the grade dates and walk through option seems strange to me. The buyer/resub definitely knew what they were doing. Whether it was a calculated gamble or back room deal, the buyer/resubber had to feel confident enough to spend additional money after paying for the walk-through service which isn't cheap. Unless, Spider-Dan faked the PM sale and cracked out the book to sell raw on ebay or somewhere prompting the new owner to try and CGC it unknowing that it was previously a PLOD, I'd say the buyer (knowing it's history) would have had to feel confident about receiving a different outcome.

 

As for protecting the buyer because of the stigma of the book, it's irrelevant since the new S/N is known as well as the characteristics. Reselling this one will be tough on here. Might as well out the buyer as the only way he'd be able to sell it under the radar would be if he cracked it out to sell raw but that would defeat the purpose of the resub. I think the only thing left now is a response from CGC and/or the truth about the buyer.

[Santos208]

Damn that's a HUGE F' up on their part!

 

Have they done anything or said anything about this problem?

 

Just read the first 2 pages, theres 33 pages now, no time to read all pages, but i am f'ing SHOCKED!!!!!

[nmtg9]

The new owner has plenty of places to sell the book without this thread having any bearing on the sale.

 

There are many buyers out there who don't visit these boards.

 

He/She just has to be clever where they sell it. I'm afraid and the new buyer will be none the wiser.

[The-Collector]

What you guys don't realize is that the OP is Matt Nelson and this whole thing is a training exercise with real-life consequences for the graders, sorta like the danger room.

 

[The-Collector]

The only logical solution is to draw genitalia on books you plan to submit multiple times. This way they can't deny remembering a book.

 

But when that becomes the norm what will you need to do to stand out? Sounds like a slippery slope of comic depravity. I for one am all for it!

[maloney414]

[shadroch]

Several people have said it would only cost $100 to have this thing walked thru, as it would only be 3% of the FMV of a restored book. I dont believe they are correct. The original owner paid much much more for his walk thru and the new buyer would not be submitting the book as as a PLOD, but rather as a raw book.

This wasn't a hundred dollar shot in the dark, this was a $500 shot in the dark. Unless the new owner lives within driving distance of Sarasota, it was an $800 shot in the dark. Lets see where this book ends up for sale. I have my suspicions, already.

[joeypost]

Several people have said it would only cost $100 to have this thing walked thru, as it would only be 3% of the FMV of a restored book. I dont believe they are correct. The original owner paid much much more for his walk thru and the new buyer would not be submitting the book as as a PLOD, but rather as a raw book.

This wasn't a hundred dollar shot in the dark, this was a $500 shot in the dark. Unless the new owner lives within driving distance of Sarasota, it was an $800 shot in the dark. Lets see where this book ends up for sale. I have my suspicions, already.

 

I don't completely agree. If it was put through at a FMV of $5,000.00 it would have been $155 plus shipping. Add in the 10 or 20% discount it could have been as low as $200.00 to have this book walked thru and shipped back fully insured.

 

I do agree that the most likely scenario was that the book was sent in raw with no label. Heck, the person who resubmitted it could have had the edge that was trimmed roughed up to make it less noticeable.

 

[namisgr]

Thanks for the clarification, Joe, although it's fair to point out that the comic may not have been trimmed.

[Speedy-D]

It may be trimmed, it may not. It may be a 6.0, it may be a 7.0. It may have been submitted in the slab or raw. The point is it's been submitted to CGC three times and with each submission the trust deteriorates.

[joeypost]

Thanks for the clarification, Joe, although it's fair to point out that the comic may not have been trimmed.

 

It may very we'll be the truth Bob. Instead of rampant speculation and a boycott on their services (which will never happen due to too many business models who have hitched their wagon to CGC's horse) it would be best to wait and see what CGC says.

 

I would find it almost impossible to believe that they are not aware of this thread by now. I know for a fact the decision makers are OOO today and will be back tomorrow and that's when I would expect to at least see a reply that they are aware of it and looking into a solution.

[comicwiz]

I do agree that the most likely scenario was that the book was sent in raw with no label. Heck, the person who resubmitted it could have had the edge that was trimmed roughed up to make it less noticeable.

 

With a label or not, since when does adding a label preclude the book not getting a regrade? CGC's policy is that as long as a book is removed from it's holder/inner well, it needs to be regraded. If they hand out free reholders based on submitting a book with the label, then we have a bigger issue than what's been exposed in this thread.

 

As for the scenario of "tweaking" the book to get the blue label - not a chance. This book was likely submitted by someone who clearly disagreed with CGC's assessment it was trimmed, and/or seems to have developed a way of identifying books or a manner of submitting which exposes CGC's grading inconsistency.

 

I concede this could be explained by someone with experience submitting in a manner that assures him a "less is more" service, or where there's a set of eyes/resources are absent from the grading mix due to time constraints or needing to crank out a high volume of submissions for a weekend show.

 

Regardless, what matters most here is how they handled this when it was brought to their attention the first time. The thing they missed most is the opportunity cost of averting this alternate ending from playing out.

[sufunk]

Several people have said it would only cost $100 to have this thing walked thru, as it would only be 3% of the FMV of a restored book. I dont believe they are correct. The original owner paid much much more for his walk thru and the new buyer would not be submitting the book as as a PLOD, but rather as a raw book.

This wasn't a hundred dollar shot in the dark, this was a $500 shot in the dark. Unless the new owner lives within driving distance of Sarasota, it was an $800 shot in the dark. Lets see where this book ends up for sale. I have my suspicions, already.

 

This was no "shot in the dark"!

 

I GUARANTEE you that this book was resubbed with a full explanation of its previous blue label by someone big enough to have confidence that CGC would change back the label with a wink and a smile. It's not the 1st time.

 

It'll be very interesting to see when and where this book ends up for sale because it certainly wasn't bought as a "keeper" by a collector.

[ChasingKingKirby]

I'll say it again, since so many people are crying conspiracy by the resubber.

 

1.) you pay thousands for a purple book, you are going to find out its history

 

2.) Upon hearing what happen, if not already aware before purchasing, MANY people would take a chance and resub. Especially given it had ALREADY been graded BLUE prior to purple

-nothing weird about it all

 

3.) When it came back, of course he is going to contact the seller. Again, perfectly normal.

 

 

 

As if people are trying to out the buyer or accuse him of something. CGC is the one that wronged Dan, likely lied to his face, AND failed to meet there own supposed standards in grading.

 

Sort of. Yes you know the history. You get a book that has been a blue and now is a purple, who would resub it? I wouldn't, you wouldn't. Nobody who buys big books like this would resub so quickly. It wouldn't happen. And contact the seller again? Why? It's just going to cause problems like this. Especially because the resubber was doing this for monetary gain, not curiosity. You don't sub big books for curiosity. So your 1,2, and 3 are not normal. Not saying it's the op but or the seller, but the op needs to address these concerns so we can have a better picture.

 

I would resub. 3% FMV grading fee on a plod jim 83 7.0 is about $100 versus a potential doubling in price from 2800k for a plod to nearly 6k for a universal. So it would be worth the risk for me. Especially if i knew it had been a universal before...

 

I would have to. I'm perplexed why there's any implication that the buyer did something wrong.