Ive lost ALL confidence in CGC - UPDATE on page 221 2 2

[MatterEaterLad]

 

They fed him a BS story, and told him to take a hike.

 

Its the hubris and arrogance of making him eat the purple rather than admitting they got it wrong. That's the most likely scenario, and the problem with their complete lack of accountability, public standards, etc etc.

 

 

100% this.

 

 

 

 

[MatterEaterLad]

Seeing as how all you boardies have convicted CGC, you should gather your torches and pitchforks and head down to Sarasota.

 

This whole board/lemmings mentality is beyond dumb...I laugh at 95% of the posts in this thread....

 

 

As someone who only sells CGC'd books on his website I'd say you're hardly unbiased.

 

Staus quo much?

 

 

[Columbia Comics]

Seeing as how all you boardies have convicted CGC, you should gather your torches and pitchforks and head down to Sarasota.

 

This whole board/lemmings mentality is beyond dumb...I laugh at 95% of the posts in this thread....

 

 

As someone who only sells CGC'd books on his website I'd say you're hardly unbiased.

 

Staus quo much?

 

 

Not the status quo...just a realistic approach to an unrealistic expectation.

 

The fact that people here expect perfection from an imperfect product is laughable.

 

The only thing I agree w/in this entire thread is that CGC has a responsibility to handle the situation correctly...and that's on them and only them. Its not the responsibility of this community to determine what they should or shouldn't do..and casting stones before all the information is available is not only ignorant, but shows true colors by many.

 

Take it for what you want...if a mistake was made, is it the end of the world? No...my power still comes on, my fridge still keeps my food cold and I still have a roof over my head..

 

Its shameful all these first world problems us comic collectors and dealer's have...

[marmat]

This situation has the potential to hurt CGC badly. And I mean "shooting down" badly.

 

IMO the smartest move, that will fix this situation and probably avoid the same case in the future, is to stop detecting trimming.

If they can not be sure 100%, and apparently they aren't, they must ignore trimming.

 

also, this will avoid greedy collectors/dealers to take advantage of the system, just like they did with reattached covers until CGC fixed that bug.

[comeaux]

Seeing as how all you boardies have convicted CGC, you should gather your torches and pitchforks and head down to Sarasota.

 

This whole board/lemmings mentality is beyond dumb...I laugh at 95% of the posts in this thread....

 

 

As someone who only sells CGC'd books on his website I'd say you're hardly unbiased.

 

Staus quo much?

 

 

Not the status quo...just a realistic approach to an unrealistic expectation.

 

The fact that people here expect perfection from an imperfect product is laughable.

 

The only thing I agree w/in this entire thread is that CGC has a responsibility to handle the situation correctly...and that's on them and only them. Its not the responsibility of this community to determine what they should or shouldn't do..and casting stones before all the information is available is not only ignorant, but shows true colors by many.

 

Take it for what you want...if a mistake was made, is it the end of the world? No...my power still comes on, my fridge still keeps my food cold and I still have a roof over my head..

 

Its shameful all these first world problems us comic collectors and dealer's have...

 

[bronze johnny]

Wouldn't this encourage more trimming?

[ChasingKingKirby]

Wouldn't this encourage more trimming?

 

Yes.

[marmat]

Seeing as how all you boardies have convicted CGC, you should gather your torches and pitchforks and head down to Sarasota.

 

This whole board/lemmings mentality is beyond dumb...I laugh at 95% of the posts in this thread....

 

 

As someone who only sells CGC'd books on his website I'd say you're hardly unbiased.

 

Staus quo much?

 

 

Not the status quo...just a realistic approach to an unrealistic expectation.

 

The fact that people here expect perfection from an imperfect product is laughable.

 

The only thing I agree w/in this entire thread is that CGC has a responsibility to handle the situation correctly...and that's on them and only them. Its not the responsibility of this community to determine what they should or shouldn't do..and casting stones before all the information is available is not only ignorant, but shows true colors by many.

 

Take it for what you want...if a mistake was made, is it the end of the world? No...my power still comes on, my fridge still keeps my food cold and I still have a roof over my head..

 

Its shameful all these first world problems us comic collectors and dealer's have...

 

We do not pretend perfection, and a mistake it's not the end of the world, you are right.

But the mistake becomes a PROBLEM when it's made not one, not two, but THREE times on the same book. The third time, after the head of the company assured the customer that "everybody in the building with grading skills" revised the book. Who graded it the third time? The receptionist? With that comment, Herschen added fuel to the fire, also jeopardaizing his and his company reputation.

Finally, if that happened three times on a single book, who knows how many books out there fall in the same category.

[Guardian Comics]

I do agree that the most likely scenario was that the book was sent in raw with no label. Heck, the person who resubmitted it could have had the edge that was trimmed roughed up to make it less noticeable.

 

With a label or not, since when does adding a label preclude the book not getting a regrade? CGC's policy is that as long as a book is removed from it's holder/inner well, it needs to be regraded. If they hand out free reholders based on submitting a book with the label, then we have a bigger issue than what's been exposed in this thread.

 

As for the scenario of "tweaking" the book to get the blue label - not a chance. This book was submitted by someone who clearly disagreed with CGC's assessment it was trimmed, and/or seems to have developed a way of identifying books or a manner of submitting which exposes CGC's grading inconsistency.

 

I concede this could be explained by someone with experience submitting in a manner that assures him a "less is more" service, or where there's a set of eyes/resources are absent from the grading mix due to time constraints or needing to crank out a high volume of submissions for a weekend show.

 

Regardless, what matters most here is how they handled this when it was brought to their attention the first time. The thing they missed most is the opportunity cost of averting this alternate ending from playing out.

 

Joe, the board member who purchased the book could have cracked it out and sold it raw down the line as an unrestored book. There are always options other than having it re-graded.

 

Your post did get me thinking so I went back and looked at the day the book was graded. It was 3/27/2014. That was the Thursday many of the CGC staff were flying into Seattle. I saw Paul at the show. Not sure if he flew out Thursday or Friday but the book had to be finalized by someone left at CGC. I am not 100% on CGC's policy on walk-thru books but someone has to finalize it.

 

For the submitter to know the travel plans and availability of who would have been working that day would be timing of epic proportions. Not saying that someone out there could not have planned to have the book there understanding the dynamics of CGC's staffing issues just before a show, but it is a stretch.

 

I gotta agree here Joey. The submitter is smart enough to buy the book via PM here, so there is no public record of the transaction. Then he submits thinking he'll time it perfectly when CGC is understaffed, but once he gets the book he let's Dan know, so the book is forever tainted and has the scarlet letter??? Just doesn't make sense.

 

Jim

[sufunk]

Seeing as how all you boardies have convicted CGC, you should gather your torches and pitchforks and head down to Sarasota.

 

This whole board/lemmings mentality is beyond dumb...I laugh at 95% of the posts in this thread....

 

 

As someone who only sells CGC'd books on his website I'd say you're hardly unbiased.

 

Staus quo much?

 

 

Not the status quo...just a realistic approach to an unrealistic expectation.

 

The fact that people here expect perfection from an imperfect product is laughable.

 

The only thing I agree w/in this entire thread is that CGC has a responsibility to handle the situation correctly...and that's on them and only them. Its not the responsibility of this community to determine what they should or shouldn't do..and casting stones before all the information is available is not only ignorant, but shows true colors by many.

 

Take it for what you want...if a mistake was made, is it the end of the world? No...my power still comes on, my fridge still keeps my food cold and I still have a roof over my head..

 

Its shameful all these first world problems us comic collectors and dealer's have...

 

No one expects perfection. That's not the problem here.

 

Are you honestly gonna tell me that this major SA key, with distinctive faults that a stink was made about and was talked about and shown To everyone in the building with grading credibility wasn't recognized a month later when resubbed?

 

I don't believe that for a second

[Columbia Comics]

This situation has the potential to hurt CGC badly. And I mean "shooting down" badly.

 

IMO the smartest move, that will fix this situation and probably avoid the same case in the future, is to stop detecting trimming.

If they can not be sure 100%, and apparently they aren't, they must ignore trimming.

 

also, this will avoid greedy collectors/dealers to take advantage of the system, just like they did with reattached covers until CGC fixed that bug.

 

I have to disagree w/this. I think if you removed that aspect, it would only open up the floodgates even further.

 

Does this hurt CGC in the long run? Ehhh...that's debatable. I will say it certainly doesn't help but we're talking about an isolated incident (at least this one book).

 

The ultimate problem is that NO ONE can be 100% certain that a book is or isn't trimmed. I mean, when the covers were cut, they were all trimmed right?? So its not beyond reason to believe that the imperfect human eye will not catch every single attempt to defraud the system.

 

When dishonest people stop trimming comics, the problem will solve itself. However, that won't happen b/c at this point, there's too much money involved.

 

So I would advise CGC to stay the course and keep doing their best at detecting trimming. Will mistakes happen? Of course...let any boardie who as inaccurately graded a book or missed restoration, please stand up.

 

We are all human, playing a game that cannot be mastered. The moment people realize this, the better you sleep at night.

[Columbia Comics]

Seeing as how all you boardies have convicted CGC, you should gather your torches and pitchforks and head down to Sarasota.

 

This whole board/lemmings mentality is beyond dumb...I laugh at 95% of the posts in this thread....

 

 

As someone who only sells CGC'd books on his website I'd say you're hardly unbiased.

 

Staus quo much?

 

 

Not the status quo...just a realistic approach to an unrealistic expectation.

 

The fact that people here expect perfection from an imperfect product is laughable.

 

The only thing I agree w/in this entire thread is that CGC has a responsibility to handle the situation correctly...and that's on them and only them. Its not the responsibility of this community to determine what they should or shouldn't do..and casting stones before all the information is available is not only ignorant, but shows true colors by many.

 

Take it for what you want...if a mistake was made, is it the end of the world? No...my power still comes on, my fridge still keeps my food cold and I still have a roof over my head..

 

Its shameful all these first world problems us comic collectors and dealer's have...

 

We do not pretend perfection, and a mistake it's not the end of the world, you are right.

But the mistake becomes a PROBLEM when it's made not one, not two, but THREE times on the same book. The third time, after the head of the company assured the customer that "everybody in the building with grading skills" revised the book. Who graded it the third time? The receptionist? With that comment, Herschen added fuel to the fire, also jeopardaizing his and his company reputation.

Finally, if that happened three times on a single book, who knows how many books out there fall in the same category.

 

At the end of the day, you cannot say that three mistakes were made. A blue label went purple...then back to blue.

 

Perhaps the mistake was going to purple. If that's the mistake, then it happened once.

 

I have no clue..I didn't see the book, I didn't grade the book and have no idea if the book should have been recognized.

 

Its a major SA key but its relatively common to say...a Batman 1?? And I realize this addresses another poster but saying the book should have been recognized is like saying I should recognize my lunch 5 hours later...

[CBT]

Not the status quo...just a realistic approach to an unrealistic expectation.

 

The fact that people here expect perfection from an imperfect product is laughable.

 

The only thing I agree w/in this entire thread is that CGC has a responsibility to handle the situation correctly...and that's on them and only them. Its not the responsibility of this community to determine what they should or shouldn't do..and casting stones before all the information is available is not only ignorant, but shows true colors by many.

 

Take it for what you want...if a mistake was made, is it the end of the world? No...my power still comes on, my fridge still keeps my food cold and I still have a roof over my head..

 

Its shameful all these first world problems us comic collectors and dealer's have...

 

I think people just want public accountability. Obviously mistakes will happen in any business.

 

The same way people should post if a book is pressed when selling it. Or that the spine has been adjusted to hide defects and maximize the grade. Those sorts of things should be declared openly for people buying by any honest seller...

 

Same way CGC should have their moderators, grading standards, practices, and grading notes public and transparent.

 

obfuscation and ambiguity lead to nepotism, corruption, and scandal.

[joe_collector]

But the mistake becomes a PROBLEM when it's made not one, not two, but THREE times on the same book. The third time, after the head of the company assured the customer that "everybody in the building with grading skills" revised the book. Who graded it the third time? The receptionist?

 

Exactly, and it's quite disturbing the number of dealers and invested collectors who want to just sweep this under the carpet.

[Heresy]

The ultimate problem is that NO ONE can be 100% certain that a book is or isn't trimmed.

 

'Everyone in the building with grading credibility' sure seemed 100% certain when they gave it the PLOD.

[Red84]

I too have not read this entire thread but I get the jist of it.

 

Would it be more conducive to discretely "tattoo" the interior of the book with the CGC number to prevent this kind of fiasco? I think it would certainly prevent the books from going through the resubmittal and screwing up the census.

 

 

If i remember correctly, PSA/DNA has invisible ink. CGC could use that to barcode a book.

[Hulksdaddy1]

As to the trimming issue, the simple, best way for CGC to proceed is only label it trimming when it is beyond a shadow of a doubt.

 

The JIM was graded twice as a blue 6.0, once a res. 7.0. That leads me to believe the 6.0 was the correct grade, the res. 7.0 was the mistake. So, that it was trimmed was not a slam dunk. The CGC graders should have erred on the side of caution, like they did TWICE, and not label it trimmed. That was that the error on that sub.

 

Another question is, did they give a gift full grade bump because of the suspected trim?

[batman_fan]

Seeing as how all you boardies have convicted CGC, you should gather your torches and pitchforks and head down to Sarasota.

 

This whole board/lemmings mentality is beyond dumb...I laugh at 95% of the posts in this thread....

 

 

As someone who only sells CGC'd books on his website I'd say you're hardly unbiased.

 

Staus quo much?

 

 

Not the status quo...just a realistic approach to an unrealistic expectation.

 

The fact that people here expect perfection from an imperfect product is laughable.

 

The only thing I agree w/in this entire thread is that CGC has a responsibility to handle the situation correctly...and that's on them and only them. Its not the responsibility of this community to determine what they should or shouldn't do..and casting stones before all the information is available is not only ignorant, but shows true colors by many.

 

Take it for what you want...if a mistake was made, is it the end of the world? No...my power still comes on, my fridge still keeps my food cold and I still have a roof over my head..

 

Its shameful all these first world problems us comic collectors and dealer's have...

 

We do not pretend perfection, and a mistake it's not the end of the world, you are right.

But the mistake becomes a PROBLEM when it's made not one, not two, but THREE times on the same book. The third time, after the head of the company assured the customer that "everybody in the building with grading skills" revised the book. Who graded it the third time? The receptionist? With that comment, Herschen added fuel to the fire, also jeopardaizing his and his company reputation.

Finally, if that happened three times on a single book, who knows how many books out there fall in the same category.

 

At the end of the day, you cannot say that three mistakes were made. A blue label went purple...then back to blue.

 

Perhaps the mistake was going to purple. If that's the mistake, then it happened once.

 

I have no clue..I didn't see the book, I didn't grade the book and have no idea if the book should have been recognized.

 

Its a major SA key but its relatively common to say...a Batman 1?? And I realize this addresses another poster but saying the book should have been recognized is like saying I should recognize my lunch 5 hours later...

 

You are wrong in your assumption that it only happened once. The book was reviewed as a purple label and all the graders said it was trimmed. So not just once.

[Columbia Comics]

I think people just want public accountability.

 

This I agree with...coming out and admitting that a mistake was made would be the proper course of action.

 

 

[Columbia Comics]

The ultimate problem is that NO ONE can be 100% certain that a book is or isn't trimmed.

 

'Everyone in the building with grading credibility' sure seemed 100% certain when they gave it the PLOD.

 

Probably a poor choice of words....