The Official Doctor Strange Movie Thread 0

[MetalPSI]

Is this why Iron Man screwed up Mandarin?

[TheLiamSturgess]

Is this why Iron Man screwed up Mandarin?

 

Iron Man 4.

[MetalPSI]

Is this why Iron Man screwed up Mandarin?

 

Iron Man 4.

 

Agreed, the only way to redeem it

[mar-vell]

Doctor Strange’s Erasure Of Tibet Is A Political Statement

 

Recently, however, discussion of Marvel’s relationship with the Chinese film market came to light once again after C. Robert Cargill, one of the screenwriters who worked on Doctor Strange, spoke very bluntly about changes made to Stephen Strange’s mentor in mysticism, the Ancient One. In the comics, the Ancient One is hundreds of years old and originates from the area that would later become known as Tibet, and Doctor Strange travels to Tibet to find him. Naturally, the Ancient One’s original background was a bit of a sticking point for Marvel because, as Cargill explained:

 

“The Ancient One was a racist stereotype who comes from a region of the world that is in a very weird political place. He originates from Tibet, so if you acknowledge that Tibet is a place and that he’s Tibetan, you risk alienating one billion people who think that that’s bulls**t and risk the Chinese government going, ‘Hey, you know one of the biggest film-watching countries in the world? We’re not going to show your movie because you decided to get political’…"

 

“The only way this character could be more awkward is if he had been made back in the thirties… and instead of going to the Orient [Doctor Strange] went to Palestine and learned from a Palestinian master… That’s the only way this could be any uglier than this one now.”

 

He makes it sound like the change to the character's origin was to appease the Chinese box office. Ouch!

 

This is total BS.

 

If anything the real politics would be about acknowledging Tibet as the location itself. Do they think it will be any less insulting to the Chinese by having a British woman playing the role of a Tibetan Monk? The Chinese don't want to acknowledge Tibet as an autonomous region. As far as they're concerned, it's always been part of China. This whole stereotype excuse is actually a moot point.

 

It's like saying Chinese people won't watch Asian martial arts movies because it's too stereotypical.

 

All they had to do was change the locations name from Tibet to Nepal. Changing the characters race was not necessary. It looks like Strange is traveling to Nepal in the trailer anyways, cause they do show a Kathmandu temple at one point. So where does the issue of race come in?

 

This is just a poor excuse to justify their decision, rather than the actual reason behind it. Besides, I think the Ancient One being Asian would have actually increased ticket sales in China.

 

 

This is exactly what I said to my friend the other day.

 

The whole idea was poorly conceived imo. I am glad at least marvel has felt the heat enough to comment about it. The ancient one should just have been an Asian man from Nepal. I can understand them wanting to avoid chinas politics but the answer was simple not complicated.

 

Insisting the ancient one be female just feels like a reach to me and the whole feminist theme is reaching the point of overkill in most of the shows i am watching. I can appreciate women are making up a larger part of the geek audience these days and want to be represented but I think that has already been accomplished no need to force it anymore imo.

[Meeklo]

What is funny is that, for a change, it's not comic book fans complaining...

 

It's everyone else...

 

Comic fans complained when Michael B. Jordan was cast as Johnny Storm and made his (white) sister adopted...and we knew that it was a sign that the movie would suck.

 

Comic fans generally seem to be okay with Tilda Swinton playing the Ancient One and we know the movie will, at the very least, be very enjoyable.

[kdoginohio]

I didn't really connect Guardians and Doctor Strange.

But I guess that does make sense.

Thanos and Strange are in the Marvel universe.

Sebastion Shaw is too.

Kevin Bacon played Sebastion Shaw.

It's all relevant.

[Bosco685]

I didn't really connect Guardians and Doctor Strange.

But I guess that does make sense.

Thanos and Strange are in the Marvel universe.

Sebastion Shaw is too.

Kevin Bacon played Sebastion Shaw.

It's all relevant.

 

Yes - but what did Tony Stark invent to help Doctor Strange realize his powers? Until I see this in the MCU, it didn't happen.

 

[jimjum12]

Doctor Strange’s Erasure Of Tibet Is A Political Statement

 

Recently, however, discussion of Marvel’s relationship with the Chinese film market came to light once again after C. Robert Cargill, one of the screenwriters who worked on Doctor Strange, spoke very bluntly about changes made to Stephen Strange’s mentor in mysticism, the Ancient One. In the comics, the Ancient One is hundreds of years old and originates from the area that would later become known as Tibet, and Doctor Strange travels to Tibet to find him. Naturally, the Ancient One’s original background was a bit of a sticking point for Marvel because, as Cargill explained:

 

“The Ancient One was a racist stereotype who comes from a region of the world that is in a very weird political place. He originates from Tibet, so if you acknowledge that Tibet is a place and that he’s Tibetan, you risk alienating one billion people who think that that’s bulls**t and risk the Chinese government going, ‘Hey, you know one of the biggest film-watching countries in the world? We’re not going to show your movie because you decided to get political’…"

 

“The only way this character could be more awkward is if he had been made back in the thirties… and instead of going to the Orient [Doctor Strange] went to Palestine and learned from a Palestinian master… That’s the only way this could be any uglier than this one now.”

 

He makes it sound like the change to the character's origin was to appease the Chinese box office. Ouch!

 

This is total BS.

 

If anything the real politics would be about acknowledging Tibet as the location itself. Do they think it will be any less insulting to the Chinese by having a British woman playing the role of a Tibetan Monk? The Chinese don't want to acknowledge Tibet as an autonomous region. As far as they're concerned, it's always been part of China. This whole stereotype excuse is actually a moot point.

 

It's like saying Chinese people won't watch Asian martial arts movies because it's too stereotypical.

 

All they had to do was change the locations name from Tibet to Nepal. Changing the characters race was not necessary. It looks like Strange is traveling to Nepal in the trailer anyways, cause they do show a Kathmandu temple at one point. So where does the issue of race come in?

 

This is just a poor excuse to justify their decision, rather than the actual reason behind it. Besides, I think the Ancient One being Asian would have actually increased ticket sales in China.

 

 

This is exactly what I said to my friend the other day.

 

The whole idea was poorly conceived imo. I am glad at least marvel has felt the heat enough to comment about it. The ancient one should just have been an Asian man from Nepal. I can understand them wanting to avoid chinas politics but the answer was simple not complicated.

 

Insisting the ancient one be female just feels like a reach to me and the whole feminist theme is reaching the point of overkill in most of the shows i am watching. I can appreciate women are making up a larger part of the geek audience these days and want to be represented but I think that has already been accomplished no need to force it anymore imo.

 

...... I am, I confess, a little disappointed with the gender switch for the Ancient One. To me, it's almost insulting to a wise old Asian man...... if appealing to the female audience more was deemed necessary, why not just flesh out Clea more and make her more substantial. I've been an armchair fan of Eastern Mysticism for decades, and the legends of the wise old men, who form the backbone of so much of that, have prevailed for centuries. For Marvel to thumb their nose at that is just not acceptable to me. A bunch of penthouse id1ots trying to micromanage the thinking of the masses GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

 

 

...sorry about the rant...... now, back to our regularly scheduled program........

Edited May 1, 2016 by jimjum12

[krighton]

had no idea that's why the Mandarin was portrayed that way.....it's 100% about the $$$

[Chip Cataldo]

I wish I lived in a penthouse. Instead I'm just a plain ol' id1ot.

[jimjum12]

I wish I lived in a penthouse. Instead I'm just a plain ol' id1ot.

 

+ 1........................ me too....

 

 

...... and honestly, a wise old Asian man could probably not care less about being in a comic movie..... GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Edited May 1, 2016 by jimjum12

[Bosco685]

Mister Sulu is not happy.

 

Star Trek's George Takei on Doctor Strange: "Marvel Must Think We're All insufficiently_thoughtful_persons"

 

In a Facebook rant over the weekend, Star Trek actor George Takei said that Marvel's explanation for casting Tilda Swinton as The Ancient One in Doctor Strange is a "red herring."

 

"This backpedaling is nearly as cringeworthy as the casting," Takei wrote in part. "Marvel must think we’re all insufficiently_thoughtful_persons."

 

He's referencing primarily comments that came not from the studio itself, but one of the film's writers.

 

"Marvel already addressed the Tibetan question by setting the action and The Ancient One in Kathmandu, Nepal in the film," Takei wrote in response to that specific comment. "It wouldn't have mattered to the Chinese government by that point whether the character was white or Asian, as it was already in another country. So this is a red herring, and it's insulting that they expect us to buy their explanation. They cast Tilda because they believe white audiences want to see white faces. Audiences, too, should be aware of how dumb and out of touch the studios think we are."

[chezmtghut]

Mister Sulu is not happy.

 

Star Trek's George Takei on Doctor Strange: "Marvel Must Think We're All insufficiently_thoughtful_persons"

 

In a Facebook rant over the weekend, Star Trek actor George Takei said that Marvel's explanation for casting Tilda Swinton as The Ancient One in Doctor Strange is a "red herring."

 

"This backpedaling is nearly as cringeworthy as the casting," Takei wrote in part. "Marvel must think we’re all insufficiently_thoughtful_persons."

 

He's referencing primarily comments that came not from the studio itself, but one of the film's writers.

 

"Marvel already addressed the Tibetan question by setting the action and The Ancient One in Kathmandu, Nepal in the film," Takei wrote in response to that specific comment. "It wouldn't have mattered to the Chinese government by that point whether the character was white or Asian, as it was already in another country. So this is a red herring, and it's insulting that they expect us to buy their explanation. They cast Tilda because they believe white audiences want to see white faces. Audiences, too, should be aware of how dumb and out of touch the studios think we are."

 

I'm glad to hear someone like Takei speak out about this. I don't agree with his comment on white audiences want to see white faces part though. They did cast a black Mordo after all.

 

I think Takei would have been perfect for the role of the Ancient One.

 

I don't know why Marvel keeps trying to pull gender or race switches on their characters. They should just bring in more Marvel characters of different genders & races into the fold.

[Meeklo]

Mister Sulu is not happy.

 

Star Trek's George Takei on Doctor Strange: "Marvel Must Think We're All insufficiently_thoughtful_persons"

 

In a Facebook rant over the weekend, Star Trek actor George Takei said that Marvel's explanation for casting Tilda Swinton as The Ancient One in Doctor Strange is a "red herring."

 

"This backpedaling is nearly as cringeworthy as the casting," Takei wrote in part. "Marvel must think we’re all insufficiently_thoughtful_persons."

 

He's referencing primarily comments that came not from the studio itself, but one of the film's writers.

 

"Marvel already addressed the Tibetan question by setting the action and The Ancient One in Kathmandu, Nepal in the film," Takei wrote in response to that specific comment. "It wouldn't have mattered to the Chinese government by that point whether the character was white or Asian, as it was already in another country. So this is a red herring, and it's insulting that they expect us to buy their explanation. They cast Tilda because they believe white audiences want to see white faces. Audiences, too, should be aware of how dumb and out of touch the studios think we are."

 

I'm glad to hear someone like Takei speak out about this. I don't agree with his comment on white audiences want to see white faces part though. They did cast a black Mordo after all.

 

I think Takei would have been perfect for the role of the Ancient One.

 

I don't know why Marvel keeps trying to pull gender or race switches on their characters. They should just bring in more Marvel characters of different genders & races into the fold.

 

I met him IRL...he would have been a great Ancient One,

[Unca Ben]

I'm kinda glad Marvel Studios got Swinton for the role over someone like Takei.

For a role like that I prefer someone who can act.

[chezmtghut]

I'm kinda glad Marvel Studios got Swinton for the role over someone like Takei.

For a role like that I prefer someone who can act.

Ouch.

[Comicopolis]

I'm kinda glad Marvel Studios got Swinton for the role over someone like Takei.

For a role like that I prefer someone who can act.

 

100%

[kdoginohio]

Mister Sulu is not happy.

 

Star Trek's George Takei on Doctor Strange: "Marvel Must Think We're All insufficiently_thoughtful_persons"

 

In a Facebook rant over the weekend, Star Trek actor George Takei said that Marvel's explanation for casting Tilda Swinton as The Ancient One in Doctor Strange is a "red herring."

 

"This backpedaling is nearly as cringeworthy as the casting," Takei wrote in part. "Marvel must think we’re all insufficiently_thoughtful_persons."

 

He's referencing primarily comments that came not from the studio itself, but one of the film's writers.

 

"Marvel already addressed the Tibetan question by setting the action and The Ancient One in Kathmandu, Nepal in the film," Takei wrote in response to that specific comment. "It wouldn't have mattered to the Chinese government by that point whether the character was white or Asian, as it was already in another country. So this is a red herring, and it's insulting that they expect us to buy their explanation. They cast Tilda because they believe white audiences want to see white faces. Audiences, too, should be aware of how dumb and out of touch the studios think we are."

So it's okay to complain about poor casting and not be considered a misogynistic, homophobic racist? Thanks, George!

[Bosco685]

So it's okay to complain about poor casting and not be considered a misogynistic, homophobic racist? Thanks, George!

 

Too bad you missed the part where the -script writer admitted they changed the character's origins so as not to offend Chinese movie-goers versus those making up misogynistic plot lines for movies to fit their view of the world.

 

That would be details, rather than holding a comic book up to the computer screen and shouting, "That's not what my Wolverine looks like. I want MY Wolverine!"

 

[Bosco685]

This is just a poor excuse to justify their decision, rather than the actual reason behind it. Besides, I think the Ancient One being Asian would have actually increased ticket sales in China.

 

You mean the writer that worked on the -script stating this clearly was actually all made up?

 

I think Tilda Swinton is a fantastic actress. I loved her performance in the Constantine movie as Gabriel, along with her evil role in Snowpiercer (what a transformation).

 

But this shows in this worldwide box office universe even Marvel Studios will continue making decisions to appease certain markets. They did it with Iron Man 3 with the Chinese 'Tony Stark heart operation' scene which really added no value to the story. But it sure paid off big for that movie, exceeding even what Avengers achieved at the Chinese box office.