Where in the world was the Quality Control at CGC??? 44 44

[Domo Arigato]

 

[Qalyar]

On 12/21/2021 at 3:46 PM, Monster's Lair Comics said:

The other thing to consider with this particular book is that it appears to be a single staple book. Many books from the late golden age period were only stapled together with a single staple in the middle of the spine.  That makes it incredibly easy to make these detached.  The cover condition looks to be in wonderful shape, and with something like a single detached staple, how they decided to do a 5.0 on what would normally be a 4.5 top grade book.

I don't know if this is really what happened at CGC, but I do find this argument somewhat compelling. A detached cover results in a book with two significant structural defects -- essentially, two tears in the cover along the spine. That warrants a more serious penalty than two randomly-located tears of equivalent size because it also compromises the book's integrity.

A one-staple book with a detached cover still has the issue of fundamental integrity, but it gets there via one technical defect rather than two. In the extreme situation with an otherwise sufficiently high-grade copy, is that a difference that might warrant an 0.5 higher grade maximum?

[Beyonder123]

On 12/21/2021 at 1:46 PM, Monster's Lair Comics said:

The other thing to consider with this particular book is that it appears to be a single staple book. Many books from the late golden age period were only stapled together with a single staple in the middle of the spine.  That makes it incredibly easy to make these detached.  The cover condition looks to be in wonderful shape, and with something like a single detached staple, how they decided to do a 5.0 on what would normally be a 4.5 top grade book.

Not only that but is there a possibility that the book never even had the middle staple put in?  If I'm remembering correctly older books had a tendency to have missing staples pretty often. Maybe its just a printing defect. In that case I don't think it should effect the grade.

[Domo Arigato]

On 12/21/2021 at 7:37 PM, Beyonder123 said:

Not only that but is there a possibility that the book never even had the middle staple put in?  If I'm remembering correctly older books had a tendency to have missing staples pretty often. Maybe its just a printing defect. In that case I don't think it should effect the grade.

 

[Beyonder123]

On 12/21/2021 at 5:50 PM, Domo Arigato said:

 

Whelp. Definitely not a 5.0 in my opinion.

[workingdog]

Mislabeled Batman v2 21 Combo Pack Edition.  My question is not where the heck was QC but where in the heck was the Grader?

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 12/23/2021 at 2:39 PM, workingdog said:

Mislabeled Batman v2 21 Combo Pack Edition.  My question is not where the heck was QC but where in the heck was the Grader?

 

Is there a defect I’m missing?

[workingdog]

On 12/23/2021 at 3:48 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Is there a defect I’m missing?

Yes, it's mislabeled.  It's missing the Combo Pack Edition designation.  Attached pic shows what the label should look like ....

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 12/23/2021 at 5:03 PM, BottomFeeder said:

Pretty sure he was referring to the "where was the grader?" comment.

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 12/23/2021 at 2:39 PM, workingdog said:

Mislabeled Batman v2 21 Combo Pack Edition.  My question is not where the heck was QC but where in the heck was the Grader?

 

Nice looking 9.8 BTW 

 

I couldn’t find a single defect 

[BlowUpTheMoon]

[wombat]

I can only hope the two sets of the same book I sent in grade exactly the same. Because otherwise I will never know if they put the right label on the right book. Imagine having to be worried about that. 

[Ride the Tiger]

Like I said. All books graded and checked by QC need to have names recorded so that you can track the imbeciles who did this.

[skypinkblu]

On 12/25/2021 at 8:25 AM, Ride the Tiger said:

Like I said. All books graded and checked by QC need to have names recorded so that you can track the imbeciles who did this.

I agree with what you say (except for the name calling stuff). Hopefully they do record names for training purposes. We don't need to see them so we can chastise   them, but the supervisors surely need to know who needs training or who is in the wrong field.

I was wondering the other night when I saw this thread, how they could find so many proficient graders who were out of work and wanted new jobs. They can't be that easy to find,  people who are good enough to be grading contest winners and who are looking to change jobs, willing to move, etc.

Probably the answer is they could not...because learning to grade takes a long time and all of us make mistakes. Rushing to catch up, learning new skills especially when they are super detailed skills is a difficult task as it is.. However, teaching new or newish people to grade, during a pandemic, when there is such a backlog of books, a new company is involved, moving offices is involved and more and more signature series etc are coming into play would appear to be rather impossible.

I hope they figure out a way to step back a bit, do a massive amount of training (and hopefully not just by video)...get some non comic quality control people in who are not swayed by how nice a certain cover looks...and PUBLISH as least a general guide about grading standards.  We don't need nuances, but if we had general standards, such as the ones West @Timelymentioned above...it would help. Then we could say...OK, so it's got a detached cover in a 5.0 ...but it's a 1 staple book with sharp corners, no creasing, etc etc, it's acceptable to have a detached cover in 5.0, so I KNOW that and understand what went on before I sent it in and before I bought it. ..and UPDATE the standards when they change. I still remember different chief graders having different standards. One person didn't mind water damage, one hated it...one hated stains...another felt huge dust shadows in GA were peachy keen. So, the grading would change with each new chief grader. The end result is you now pick up different books with unpublished grading standards and you wonder what the heck someone was thinking when they graded certain ones.

That whole tape change thing was very difficult. One week tape was OK and not a defect, you could use it to tape the cover back on, the next it was totally different.  I'm not saying that the rule should have not been changed, but a heads up would have helped.  In the beginning, I understand why they thought grading rules had to be kept secret, but at this point where people have been guessing fr years, it seems to become more of a crutch for excusing errors.

Someone has look at the problems and work on them piecemeal, even if it means not churning out work for a week or so. If you are waiting 6 months for books, I don't think anyone is going to lose any sleep over missing another 2 weeks to fix the problems...because it's a royal PITA to have to send stuff back...and it's bad for all of us, the company and the customers.

BTW, I have a couple of GA books with detached covers. I don't get sick over them, but I agree with @Domo Arigato that it's concerning with no published standards. I would occasionally joke with my staff when they couldn't make a decision about tossing a case up and seeing if it stuck to the ceiling...but those were merely papers, you can't exactly do that with comics. We need a guideline so we can see what standards are applied. It will only help the company look consistent.

I want the company to do well...slow it down and fix the problem with the errors, then things will go faster. Errors lose time and cause aggravation for everyone.

 

Edited December 26, 2021 by skypinkblu

[workingdog]

On 12/24/2021 at 11:14 PM, BlowUpTheMoon said:

O.M.G.  I feel so bad for you right now.  I hope you're having a Merry Christmas!

@Jennifer F.@CGC Mike

[BlowUpTheMoon]

On 12/25/2021 at 11:21 AM, workingdog said:

O.M.G.  I feel so bad for you right now.  I hope you're having a Merry Christmas!

@Jennifer F.@CGC Mike

Not my books, but Happy Holidays to you! 

Edited December 25, 2021 by BlowUpTheMoon

[BlowUpTheMoon]

On 12/25/2021 at 11:21 AM, workingdog said:

O.M.G.  I feel so bad for you right now.  I hope you're having a Merry Christmas!

@Jennifer F.@CGC Mike

Not my books, but Happy Holidays to you! 

Edited December 25, 2021 by BlowUpTheMoon

[stippy52]

On 12/25/2021 at 9:27 AM, skypinkblu said:

I agree with what you say (except for the name calling stuff). Hopefully they do record names for training purposes. We don't need to see them so we can chastise   them, but the supervisors surely need to know who needs training or who is in the wrong field.

I was wondering the other night when I saw this thread, how they could find so many proficient graders who were out of work and wanted new jobs. There can't be that easy to find  people who are good enough to be grading contest winners and who are looking to change jobs, willing to move, etc.

Probably the answer is they could not...because learning to grade takes a long time and all of us make mistakes. Rushing to catch up, learning new skills especially when they are super detailed skills is a difficult task as it is.. However, teaching new or newish people to grade, during a pandemic, when there is such a backlog of books, a new company is involved, moving offices is involved and more and more signature series etc are coming into play would appear to be rather impossible.

I hope they figure out a way to step back a bit, do a massive amount of training (and hopefully not just by video)...get some non comic quality control people in who are not swayed by how nice a certain cover looks...and PUBLISH as least a general guide about grading standards.  We don't need nuances, but if we had general standards, such as the ones West @Timelymentioned above...it would help. Then we could say...OK, so it's got a detached cover in a 5.0 ...but it's a 1 staple book with sharp corners, no creasing, etc etc, it's acceptable to have a detached cover in 5.0, so I KNOW that and understand what went on before I sent it in and before I bought it. ..and UPDATE the standards when they change. I still remember different chief graders having different standards. One person didn't mind water damage, one hated it...one hated stains...another felt huge dust shadows in GA were peachy keen. So, the grading would change with each new chief grader. The end result is you now pick up different books with unpublished grading standards and you wonder what the heck someone was thinking when they graded certain ones.

That whole tape change thing was very difficult. One week tape was OK and not a defect, you could use it to tape the cover back on, the next it was totally different.  I'm not saying that the rule should have not been changed, but a heads up would have helped.  In the beginning, I understand why they thought grading rules had to be kept secret, but at this point where people have been guessing for years, it seems to become more of a crutch for excusing errors.

Someone has look at the problems and work on them piecemeal, even if it means not churning out work for a week or so. If you are waiting 6 months for books, I don't think anyone is going to lose any sleep over missing another 2 weeks to fix the problems...because it's a royal PITA to have to send stuff back...and it's bad for all of us, the company and the customers.

BTW, I have a couple of GA books with detached covers. I don't get sick over them, but I agree with @Domo Arigato that it's concerning with no published standards. I would occasionally joke with my staff when they couldn't make a decision about tossing a case up and seeing if it stuck to the ceiling...but those were merely papers, you can't exactly do that with comics. We need a guideline so we can see what standards are applied. It will only help the company look consistent.

I want the company to do well...slow it down and fix the problem with the errors, then things will go faster. Errors lose time and cause aggravation for everyone.

 

Nailed it!

[musicmeta]

On 12/25/2021 at 8:27 AM, skypinkblu said:

I agree with what you say (except for the name calling stuff). Hopefully they do record names for training purposes. We don't need to see them so we can chastise   them, but the supervisors surely need to know who needs training or who is in the wrong field.

I was wondering the other night when I saw this thread, how they could find so many proficient graders who were out of work and wanted new jobs. There can't be that easy to find  people who are good enough to be grading contest winners and who are looking to change jobs, willing to move, etc.

Probably the answer is they could not...because learning to grade takes a long time and all of us make mistakes. Rushing to catch up, learning new skills especially when they are super detailed skills is a difficult task as it is.. However, teaching new or newish people to grade, during a pandemic, when there is such a backlog of books, a new company is involved, moving offices is involved and more and more signature series etc are coming into play would appear to be rather impossible.

I hope they figure out a way to step back a bit, do a massive amount of training (and hopefully not just by video)...get some non comic quality control people in who are not swayed by how nice a certain cover looks...and PUBLISH as least a general guide about grading standards.  We don't need nuances, but if we had general standards, such as the ones West @Timelymentioned above...it would help. Then we could say...OK, so it's got a detached cover in a 5.0 ...but it's a 1 staple book with sharp corners, no creasing, etc etc, it's acceptable to have a detached cover in 5.0, so I KNOW that and understand what went on before I sent it in and before I bought it. ..and UPDATE the standards when they change. I still remember different chief graders having different standards. One person didn't mind water damage, one hated it...one hated stains...another felt huge dust shadows in GA were peachy keen. So, the grading would change with each new chief grader. The end result is you now pick up different books with unpublished grading standards and you wonder what the heck someone was thinking when they graded certain ones.

That whole tape change thing was very difficult. One week tape was OK and not a defect, you could use it to tape the cover back on, the next it was totally different.  I'm not saying that the rule should have not been changed, but a heads up would have helped.  In the beginning, I understand why they thought grading rules had to be kept secret, but at this point where people have been guessing for years, it seems to become more of a crutch for excusing errors.

Someone has look at the problems and work on them piecemeal, even if it means not churning out work for a week or so. If you are waiting 6 months for books, I don't think anyone is going to lose any sleep over missing another 2 weeks to fix the problems...because it's a royal PITA to have to send stuff back...and it's bad for all of us, the company and the customers.

BTW, I have a couple of GA books with detached covers. I don't get sick over them, but I agree with @Domo Arigato that it's concerning with no published standards. I would occasionally joke with my staff when they couldn't make a decision about tossing a case up and seeing if it stuck to the ceiling...but those were merely papers, you can't exactly do that with comics. We need a guideline so we can see what standards are applied. It will only help the company look consistent.

I want the company to do well...slow it down and fix the problem with the errors, then things will go faster. Errors lose time and cause aggravation for everyone.

 

Very well stated! 

[rdp collectibles]

to--skypinkblu...

well stated comments...that is a nice looking sensation comic...there has been prior discussion on green label vs blue....would you rather have your nice looking comic in a higher graded green  or in the  4.0 universal??