Gem_Mint Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 GPA has up AND down arrows in all books all grades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 But, Silver Age keys have always climbed in price. Go look at a 1980 price guide and see what Hulk 1 was valued at....see what it is today. See what it was in 1990. It has always climbed. You are incorrect. No sir you are incorrect. Show me where a SA mega key has declined in value since 1980. Instead of sweeping blanket statements...back it up with data. Every year OSPG would increase the price of keys like hulk 1, TOS 39, JIM 83, etc.ive not see I showed earlier that since 2002 Hulk 181 has increased in value. You love to tell people they are wrong but how about some substance behind your posting? There is no SA mega key that has declined in value over 35 years. Or even 10 years. Probly not even 1 year. I love a good gratuitous absolute sweeping statement as much as the next guy who loves to argue but this simply can't be true if you include all grades over all time. I definitely agree the books are worth more over 5, 10, 20 , etc years, but there have been declines in there. It isn't a complete upward trend in all grades in all "mega" keys... My only other thought would be that the term "key" (mega or otherwise) has changed over the last several decades as characters have come in and out of popularity. Especially when you extend the timeline beyond 15 years. Of course this isn't central to the argument but is worth noting. Example of a decline? The burden of proof really should be on you, but.... GPA on Incredible Hulk 1 2.5 2008 High = $2,225 2009 High = $2,050 2010 High = $2,000 2011 High = $1,912 Noted But if the best example is a 4 year span with a like 15% decline I'm saying that's not very very very very very etc risky as an investment.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryAllen Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 But, Silver Age keys have always climbed in price. Go look at a 1980 price guide and see what Hulk 1 was valued at....see what it is today. See what it was in 1990. It has always climbed. You are incorrect. No sir you are incorrect. Show me where a SA mega key has declined in value since 1980. Instead of sweeping blanket statements...back it up with data. Every year OSPG would increase the price of keys like hulk 1, TOS 39, JIM 83, etc.ive not see I showed earlier that since 2002 Hulk 181 has increased in value. You love to tell people they are wrong but how about some substance behind your posting? There is no SA mega key that has declined in value over 35 years. Or even 10 years. Probly not even 1 year. I love a good gratuitous absolute sweeping statement as much as the next guy who loves to argue but this simply can't be true if you include all grades over all time. I definitely agree the books are worth more over 5, 10, 20 , etc years, but there have been declines in there. It isn't a complete upward trend in all grades in all "mega" keys... My only other thought would be that the term "key" (mega or otherwise) has changed over the last several decades as characters have come in and out of popularity. Especially when you extend the timeline beyond 15 years. Of course this isn't central to the argument but is worth noting. Example of a decline? The burden of proof really should be on you, but.... GPA on Incredible Hulk 1 2.5 2008 High = $2,225 2009 High = $2,050 2010 High = $2,000 2011 High = $1,912 Noted But if the best example is a 4 year span with a like 15% decline I'm saying that's not very very very very very etc risky as an investment.... :shrug: I don't disagree in principle. However this was the first book I checked and the second grade I viewed. I am sure there are many more examples. Either way as safe as comic investment can be, Silver Mega Keys are blue chip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 But, Silver Age keys have always climbed in price. Go look at a 1980 price guide and see what Hulk 1 was valued at....see what it is today. See what it was in 1990. It has always climbed. You are incorrect. No sir you are incorrect. Show me where a SA mega key has declined in value since 1980. Instead of sweeping blanket statements...back it up with data. Every year OSPG would increase the price of keys like hulk 1, TOS 39, JIM 83, etc.ive not see I showed earlier that since 2002 Hulk 181 has increased in value. You love to tell people they are wrong but how about some substance behind your posting? There is no SA mega key that has declined in value over 35 years. Or even 10 years. Probly not even 1 year. I love a good gratuitous absolute sweeping statement as much as the next guy who loves to argue but this simply can't be true if you include all grades over all time. I definitely agree the books are worth more over 5, 10, 20 , etc years, but there have been declines in there. It isn't a complete upward trend in all grades in all "mega" keys... My only other thought would be that the term "key" (mega or otherwise) has changed over the last several decades as characters have come in and out of popularity. Especially when you extend the timeline beyond 15 years. Of course this isn't central to the argument but is worth noting. Example of a decline? The burden of proof really should be on you, but.... GPA on Incredible Hulk 1 2.5 2008 High = $2,225 2009 High = $2,050 2010 High = $2,000 2011 High = $1,912 2014 High = $9,000 2015 High = $7,300 2008-2015 % change = 328% That's not a bad return on a seven year buy and hold after all. (thumbs u -J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunsicker Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 We all realize that silver age keys were great performers over the last 15 years. But that doesn't mean that 15 years ago that's what everyone was saying would be the best performers going forward, nor that in 15 years everyone will be saying they were obviously the best performers. Everyone who has been around this hobby for a while knows that what the blue chips are changes. It was obvious that duck books were the surest thing in the 70's, that new X-Men and Daredevil were the surest thing in the 80's, that Valiant comics were the surest thing in the 90's, that Silver Age Marvel (and DC's?) were the surest thing in the 2000's, and that movie hype books are the surest thing in the 2010's. I could do the same thing in stock and say you would be a fool not to buy Apple stock. It's up 100 times since 2000 when CGC was founded. Sure it's had dips in the time between then and now, but boy how can you argue with that performance. Is there anyone who thinks it would be impossible for Apple to go down in value over the next ten years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 But, Silver Age keys have always climbed in price. Go look at a 1980 price guide and see what Hulk 1 was valued at....see what it is today. See what it was in 1990. It has always climbed. You are incorrect. No sir you are incorrect. Show me where a SA mega key has declined in value since 1980. Instead of sweeping blanket statements...back it up with data. Every year OSPG would increase the price of keys like hulk 1, TOS 39, JIM 83, etc.ive not see I showed earlier that since 2002 Hulk 181 has increased in value. You love to tell people they are wrong but how about some substance behind your posting? You remain incorrect. If you believe I cannot support my statement, I'm ok with that. "You are incorrect" is, however, not a sweeping blanket statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 But, Silver Age keys have always climbed in price. Go look at a 1980 price guide and see what Hulk 1 was valued at....see what it is today. See what it was in 1990. It has always climbed. You are incorrect. No sir you are incorrect. Show me where a SA mega key has declined in value since 1980. Instead of sweeping blanket statements...back it up with data. Every year OSPG would increase the price of keys like hulk 1, TOS 39, JIM 83, etc.ive not see I showed earlier that since 2002 Hulk 181 has increased in value. You love to tell people they are wrong but how about some substance behind your posting? There is no SA mega key that has declined in value over 35 years. Or even 10 years. Probly not even 1 year. I love a good gratuitous absolute sweeping statement as much as the next guy who loves to argue but this simply can't be true if you include all grades over all time. I definitely agree the books are worth more over 5, 10, 20 , etc years, but there have been declines in there. It isn't a complete upward trend in all grades in all "mega" keys... My only other thought would be that the term "key" (mega or otherwise) has changed over the last several decades as characters have come in and out of popularity. Especially when you extend the timeline beyond 15 years. Of course this isn't central to the argument but is worth noting. Yes. Not only is the statement untrue, there are also critical elements completely missing from the "analysis", which renders "comics as investments" functionally moot. Comics are not stocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpauer Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I've been doing analysis of comic values for some friends who have some old issues coming into their hands from their recently deceased parents or other elderly relatives. 1) You' can't depend on Overstreet (I know a lot of you are saying "Duh!"). The guide numbers are largely supplied by dealers and they are not likely to give huge decreases to any book. Yes, in a funny way, you can determine some things....if the guide shows flat, it's probably declining. If the guide shows decreasing slightly, then the thing is in free fall over the years. 2) As people state, there are keys. The problem is, some of those are only known after the demand becomes visible and grows. I bought GSX 1 and IH 181 off the stands...I didn't think they were anything special at the time... but it became clear later when, at a comic sale, I was asked specifically about these issues. (The GSX1 I then calmly walked to my 50 cent box and grabbed out for the person who was breathlessly looking for it...that was the first I heard it was an in demand book. This would have been 1981 or slightly later, so it took 6 years). Since that time, though, they have been sought after continually. 3) IH 181 has been relatively flat in recent years...but now notice that even MVS missing issues are getting decent purchase prices.... They are definitely getting some bump from this bear comic market, but I think this shows a definite collectible demand. 4) There are past characters that can be cautionary tales. Take L'il Abner for example. This was an incredibly popular character, spawning a movie, stage play, and even the concept of Sadie Hawkins day. Where is he now? The comics had a build up a flattening and decline. Another to look at is Charlie McCarthy. Deadpool might be today's Charlie McCarthy. 5) pop culture awareness is key to the continuing value. Superman, Batman...and Wonder Woman. The only continually published characters... AF15 was always lagging FF1..Prior to 2000, you all would be listing FF1 in these recommendations...until the movies. Dells are stagnant/falling, but were once very popular and garnered increasing prices. Picture covers of John Wayne or Annette Funicello don't mean anything to anyone born after 1965. (Can anyone answer the great mystery of why Moon Knight intro still garners large prices???) 6) IF you are going to invest...try to buy something that is obviously in beautiful shape, or 9.8 if slabbed (or higher). If it goes up, that specific item will go up the most. So..now, you are going to gamble 800 on something? This is what I would do....first, mentally prepare yourself that it might be a total dump in the toilet of your money... Once that is done...find something that doesn't have huge public awareness now but you are betting will, or that will be looked on in 20 more years as super key books. How about Marvel Super-Heroes #13? How about Swamp Thing #21? A set of Dark Knight Returns? If Dark Justice League pops, if the Sandman movie and Preacher are decent, Vertigo may be looked back on as a golden age of mature comics, and Swamp Thing 21 can be argued as the start of that. P.S. Don't forget original art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Comics Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I would invest that 800 in Gold/Silver. +1,000,000 Collecting comic books is just a hobby - it's no more than that IMO. Unless of course you're buying your "key" books for a penny on a dollar. Invest on Gold for sure! Talk to a financial advisor and see what he/she has to say. Gold dropped from $1900 an oz. to $1200 an oz. . I bought mine in 2008 - still in the "W" column. I'm not touching that until I retire. The OP should definitely consider buying now, while gold is lower historically. Let me ask you this. How many years do you think it will take for gold to reach back up to $1900 an oz. again? This chart alone is enough to scare me away from buying gold again. Talk about a bubble! Agreed...it was $276 in 2001. That wasn't that long ago, and I've never seen any sort of price swing on a key book like that in history...ever. I don't think gold is a sure investment at all. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gem_Mint Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Buy what you like. If it shoots up in value, great, make some profit. If it doesn't, hey, at least you have something that you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doktor Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) In fairness, the primary reason gold has risen is a weak US dollar and the only reason it's dropped recently is because of the relatively weakER Euro that makes the US Dollar look more stable to the market. And as the US hasn't done much to improve the value of the dollar with the monetary policy, it's more of a case of other currencies just doing worse than the US Dollar. At least that's my opinion on it. I know a lot of economists that disagree with me on the US Dollar's strength. Edited February 23, 2015 by Doktor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zevgoli Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 T I just won an ebay auction for a book for a quarter of what it's actually "worth". Actually, this has happened about 3 times in the past few months where I have won books for less than I can explain. Comics as an investment? Sure.... If its a modern that doesnt count If you got AF15 for a 1/4 what it's worth, your argument has validity There are heaps of Silver and early Bronze I have bought in NM or close to for a fraction of what they are worth now and in the future on eBay. Just set up your searches properly and away you go. Cheers, Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighStakesComics Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 So is anyone here investing in the GSX 1 when the NYSE opens at 9:30 tomorrow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetalPSI Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark 1 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 But, Silver Age keys have always climbed in price. Go look at a 1980 price guide and see what Hulk 1 was valued at....see what it is today. See what it was in 1990. It has always climbed. You are incorrect. No sir you are incorrect. Show me where a SA mega key has declined in value since 1980. Instead of sweeping blanket statements...back it up with data. Every year OSPG would increase the price of keys like hulk 1, TOS 39, JIM 83, etc.ive not see I showed earlier that since 2002 Hulk 181 has increased in value. You love to tell people they are wrong but how about some substance behind your posting? You remain incorrect. If you believe I cannot support my statement, I'm ok with that. "You are incorrect" is, however, not a sweeping blanket statement. Ok RMA, I'll just take your word for it since you show no data. As I said, go look at any mega key from the SA in a 1980 price guide and tell me any of those keys has declined in price or a bubble burst on them today. I'll be waiting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamlet Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 This just isn't true. The moves in the dollar have been substantial, but they are tiny compared to the moves in gold. There has been massive speculation in gold in the last ten years. Look at a long term chart of gold and compare the spike in 1980 to the recent spike? They look an awful lot alike don't they? A bubble formed and has been popping, IMO. In fairness, the primary reason gold has risen is a weak US dollar and the only reason it's dropped recently is because of the relatively weakER Euro that makes the US Dollar look more stable to the market. And as the US hasn't done much to improve the value of the dollar with the monetary policy, it's more of a case of other currencies just doing worse than the US Dollar. At least that's my opinion on it. I know a lot of economists that disagree with me on the US Dollar's strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vikingreed Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 "6) IF you are going to invest...try to buy something that is obviously in beautiful shape, or 9.8 if slabbed (or higher). If it goes up, that specific item will go up the most." Tell that to IH #81. Or early high grade Avengers #4. etc., etc. 9.8 "mega-keys" seem to be the most volatile of all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doktor Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) This just isn't true. The moves in the dollar have been substantial, but they are tiny compared to the moves in gold. There has been massive speculation in gold in the last ten years. Look at a long term chart of gold and compare the spike in 1980 to the recent spike? They look an awful lot alike don't they? A bubble formed and has been popping, IMO. In fairness, the primary reason gold has risen is a weak US dollar and the only reason it's dropped recently is because of the relatively weakER Euro that makes the US Dollar look more stable to the market. And as the US hasn't done much to improve the value of the dollar with the monetary policy, it's more of a case of other currencies just doing worse than the US Dollar. At least that's my opinion on it. I know a lot of economists that disagree with me on the US Dollar's strength. Maybe I over-stated a little bit. I didn't mean to say that the rise & recent slide in gold is ENTIRELY because of the weak Dollar, but it's been a big part of it. A weak dollar, over-spending/debt and rising energy & commodities costs started the rise in gold. The rush/speculation to hedge against that with precious metals has since created a bubble that's in the process of either popping or regulating at present (and over the past few years). Not only that, but there's been a demand on gold for actual products as well beyond intrinsic or numismatic value. The increase in small device (phones/tablets/etc) production has impacted the price nearly as much as the speculation. There's a lot more electronics out there with gold/platinum/silver in them than 10 years ago. And recovery from end-of-life devices is increasingly difficult both from the safety/environmental side, more regulation on over-seas superfund-like sites where companies can ship devices to have 9-year-old kids in the 3rd world pick through containers full of old phones to recover a gram or 3 of gold, and the regulating of the price making it less desirable to recover that gold as well. But at the end of the day, a poor US dollar had a lot of impact on gold prices & a WORSE Euro value in recent years with defaulting economies has made gold prices come down at least somewhat by making the US dollar the lesser of 2 evils. Edited February 23, 2015 by Doktor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
passion4comics Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Is Avengers #4 a SA mega-key? It has tanked in higher grades (9.6) and it seems to still be dropping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vikingreed Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Is Avengers #4 a SA mega-key? It has tanked in higher grades (9.6) and it seems to still be dropping. Maybe not. I think of it as one, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
