General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean 29 29

[october]

I have said I'll take it then backed out. I have said I'll sell it then backed out.

Its my money I can change my mind if I want to. Its my book I can change my mind if I want to. I don't even have to give a reason; I just changed my mind.

 

I suppose that's true, in the sense that no one is likely going to compel you to honor the deal, but it doesn't seem like the recipe for a successful marketplace. There are a lot of people who go to a lot of trouble (myself included) to run sales threads. If a decent percentage of people start backing out of purchases because they decided to "just change their mind" sellers will take their wares elsewhere.

 

This forum works as well as it does because people, for the most part, do what they say they will do. Take that away and all we have left is eBay will no fees and less security. Doesn't sound too great to me.

[EC ed]

I have said I'll take it then backed out. I have said I'll sell it then backed out.

Its my money I can change my mind if I want to. Its my book I can change my mind if I want to. I don't even have to give a reason; I just changed my mind.

 

I suppose that's true, in the sense that no one is likely going to compel you to honor the deal, but it doesn't seem like the recipe for a successful marketplace.

 

Yes...at some fundamental, purely logical, level I'm a tiny bit sympathetic to Doc's devil's advocacy...that is...my book, I can change my mind (until I've accepted your payment...then it's your book).

 

However, the question is whether there should be consequences here in our community for changing your mind, when doing so results in a "failed" transaction that another boardie was relying on. I think the clear answer is YES...if changing your mind results in failure to honor a perceived transaction, you should bear consequences here (i.e., less "freedom" to buy and sell here via the PL/HOS). I also like the fact that we have a high standard here for this sort of thing.

 

To a lesser degree, the same goes on eBay, right? (I don't sell on eBay, so someone correct me if I'm wrong)...if you cancel too many sales, you'll have some negative consequences, yes?

 

As an aside, I will also say that I don't think any of us should aim to "force" completion of a transaction where a clear and material error is involved. If I see a boardie trying to take advantage of a clear listing error, I'm ...but I don't believe the present case fits this description.

[Straw-Man]

Doc Joe what you write 'seems' sensible and as an 'in conclusion.' However the true point being is that this forum doesn't function properly if members start acting dishonest and under-handed. Your word is your bond here. This comic community developed here while far from perfect can only operate well if its' members honor their contracts to sell when a book of theirs is offered as much as one pay's when they say 'I Will Take It.'

 

Whether the book was an $80 or $800 book the point being is this behavior needs to be called attention to so it hopefully ends. Perhaps on another comic forum this can be tolerated but here I think it should be less tolerated. IMO

 

disagree; his view could scarcely seem less sensible to me.

[Doc Joe]

Doc Joe what you write 'seems' sensible and as an 'in conclusion.' However the true point being is that this forum doesn't function properly if members start acting dishonest and under-handed. Your word is your bond here. This comic community developed here while far from perfect can only operate well if its' members honor their contracts to sell when a book of theirs is offered as much as one pay's when they say 'I Will Take It.'

 

Whether the book was an $80 or $800 book the point being is this behavior needs to be called attention to so it hopefully ends. Perhaps on another comic forum this can be tolerated but here I think it should be less tolerated. IMO

 

disagree; his view could scarcely seem less sensible to me.

 

to put it in some context I have changed my mind once (to sell) out of many deals.

 

I fully agree a pattern of bad behavior is no good at all and yes the boards are great for pointing that out. Does a one off infraction constitute never do business again with this person? In my book depends on the transaction - taking money, not sending book, swearing its a 9.4 and its a 7.0 , not revealing known restoration or defects - thats scummy.

 

from what I hear this deal has issues before other offers were sent (and issues that may seem minor to you may be a big deal to the seller or the buyer - we each have our pet peaves). Agreed backing out due to higher offer or whatever is not cool.

 

also its going to be different if you are mainly a dealer, you are going to have to eat it from time to time to keep customers and give a good experience.

 

as a comic dude I can suck up one bad transaction and shrug it off.

 

a one off from probably a generally good guy (again, dont know Jimbo) but no one is saying "this guy again" ... personally I allow some leeway. And its a comic book not a kidney transplant.

 

As ever civil communication is pretty key...and can get most things resolved.

 

Like I said many will disagree with me, I'm fine with that.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2016 by Doc Joe

[MustEatBrains]

Doc Joe what you write 'seems' sensible and as an 'in conclusion.' However the true point being is that this forum doesn't function properly if members start acting dishonest and under-handed. Your word is your bond here. This comic community developed here while far from perfect can only operate well if its' members honor their contracts to sell when a book of theirs is offered as much as one pay's when they say 'I Will Take It.'

 

Whether the book was an $80 or $800 book the point being is this behavior needs to be called attention to so it hopefully ends. Perhaps on another comic forum this can be tolerated but here I think it should be less tolerated. IMO

 

disagree; his view could scarcely seem less sensible to me.

 

Completely agree. At first I thought Doc Joe was playing an extreme case of devils advocate, then realized it's from the same fellow who called us savage rage monkeys -

 

This thread has really been enlightening to me personally, and it's good to know the position of some long time boardies not just on this matter but on how they have and presumably will continue to conduct business in the future. I can honestly say I don't think I've come across a more nonsensical rebuttal. Bottom line is that if the cancellation was mutual no harm no foul. This is clearly not the case here as Cav would like to receive what he has paid for, and to-date we have not heard any reason that remotely holds water from the seller for refusing to proceed however it was alluded to that he may have priced the book incorrectly. The shipping charge excuse is laughable.

 

I would also like to piggy back on what I think Solar brought up earlier addressed to the seller, what will it take for you to honor this deal? If it's a case of you now not wanting to sell, it is what it is and will be seen as such. If as you have posted you made a mistake in pricing it at $800 (even though same book in same grade sold for $450 in 2013). Cav not only paid your asking price but I believe also made a substaintial donation to a 3rd party as a gesture of good faith.

 

Please tell us what you now think is a fair price to pry this book from your little hands? I think Solar offered to pony up some cash. I will be happy to kick in money to this cause as well if that is what it takes. You sir, have already tarnished your reputation along with at least 1 other person that chimed in on this thread. You have an opportunity to course correct here which you should do without delay.

 

[Doc Joe]

I'm particularly proud of savage rage monkeys...

 

and it is a case of devils advocate

 

I will point out also that I had someone not sell me a book because they did not want to sell ME a book, they sold it to someone else....who then later actually sold it to me

 

this prompted utter savage rage money in the original seller...

 

it was nothing to do with price, they just did not want me to have a book.

[Sqeggs]

Jimbo_707,

 

My unsolicited advice:

 

1. Cash ComCav's check.

 

2. Ship him the book.

 

3. Forget about it and move on.

[MustEatBrains]

I'm particularly proud of savage rage monkeys... - As you should be. Thinking about changing the name of my Mariachi band to this...

 

and it is a case of devils advocate -Noted

 

I will point out also that I had someone not sell me a book because they did not want to sell ME a book, they sold it to someone else....who then later actually sold it to me -If the reasoning for this was unfounded by the seller than sorry this happened to you, but glad you ultimately got the book

 

this prompted utter savage rage money in the original seller... -Must have been a sight to see

 

it was nothing to do with price, they just did not want me to have a book.

[Flex Mentallo]

 

1. Cash ComCav's check.

 

 

savage

 

 

 

2. Ship him the book.

 

 

rage

 

 

 

3. Forget about it and move on.

 

 

monkeys

[Doc Joe]

I'm particularly proud of savage rage monkeys... - As you should be. Thinking about changing the name of my Mariachi band to this...

 

and it is a case of devils advocate -Noted

 

I will point out also that I had someone not sell me a book because they did not want to sell ME a book, they sold it to someone else....who then later actually sold it to me -If the reasoning for this was unfounded by the seller than sorry this happened to you, but glad you ultimately got the book

 

this prompted utter savage rage money in the original seller... -Must have been a sight to see

 

it was nothing to do with price, they just did not want me to have a book.

 

It was surreal...I am still blocked by them...and he sold it to a guy who is super nice but notorious for buying things then selling them a month later

 

Mariachi band...pictures needed ..no ...demanded!

 

S.R.M. could be used in so many situations...I hope we see a lot more of it in society moving forward

 

I have had many dealings with boardies and they generally have all gone very very well, I think its an awesome community, I just cant lump Jimbo in with the really bad guys that have been outed on the boards...

[Hudson]

It is strange and enlightening to read though this thread.

 

There are people (like Doc Joe) who I have always found to be great board members. Just recently Doc provided an awesome review of the NY convention, that I (for one) truly appreciated. He took the time to provide not only info and photos of the convention, but I believe he also answered questions that board members had (like which booth had which book, etc). I consider Doc a valuable part of this community. I am in shock at his opinion in this incident. I still like Doc and appreciate his contributions to this community; just disagree with him on this one issue.

 

Please do NOT get me wrong. I do not walk on water. I have my faults and they are numerous (just ask my wife). The ONE thing that means more to be than comics or money, however, is my word. It is who I am. It is what allows me to look in the mirror in the morning and not turn away in disgust.

 

Maybe I am old fashion. Maybe the values I grew up with are antiquated in the new "all about me" world we seem to live in. Maybe I just don't understand. Either way, each man must make his own choice in life as to how he wants to live. As for me, I choose to be a man of my word. Not sometimes. Not most of the time. ALL the time.

 

Without trust a man is left with nothing. Take the money. Take the comics. They are all just paper (I know that may be sacrilege around here, but not in my world). Paper is paper. Money is a cheap commodity that is easy made and easily lost.

 

What is the value of a man's word? What value can a man put on the ability to say something and have EVERYONE who knows him, know, WITHOUT a doubt, that what he says is true? That, to me, is priceless.

 

Again, I am not putting down the OP or Doc Joe. Each man chooses his own path in life and I would rather not judge anyone. Each man chooses his path and each man lives with the choices they make.

 

I hope the OP changes his mind, swallows his pride, and chooses the path of honesty. In the end, however, it is his choice to make and to live with.

 

 

[Doc Joe]

 

1. Cash ComCav's check.

 

 

savage

 

 

 

2. Ship him the book.

 

 

rage

 

 

 

3. Forget about it and move on.

 

 

monkeys

 

[Sqeggs]

 

1. Cash ComCav's check.

 

 

savage

 

 

 

2. Ship him the book.

 

 

rage

 

 

 

3. Forget about it and move on.

 

 

monkeys

 

I'm gonna do it! I'm gonna do it! You people can only push me so far!

[Doc Joe]

Thank you Hudson I respect that and appreciate your comments and point of view,

 

I dont want to make a scene, maybe I have, I will just say if you back out on a deal with me, I will respect your right to do that and hope to change your mind but I will move on a may or may not do business with you again (depends on what you are selling !)

[Flex Mentallo]

 

1. Cash ComCav's check.

 

 

savage

 

 

 

2. Ship him the book.

 

 

rage

 

 

 

3. Forget about it and move on.

 

 

monkeys

 

I'm gonna do it! I'm gonna do it! You people can only push me so far!

 

[Silver Surfer]

Jimbo you should honor the original deal and move on. It's not worth the fallout.

[Timmay]

 

1. Cash ComCav's check.

 

 

savage

 

 

 

2. Ship him the book.

 

 

rage

 

 

 

3. Forget about it and move on.

 

 

monkeys

 

 

I think you found your next avatar and I like it.

 

[jimbo_707]

Well, I have read through the posts, and I've listened to what people have to say. I do respect the opinions of many people on the boards, and some people I respect have clearly expressed that I'm in the wrong.

 

I'm not sure I agree with the idea that it's never OK for a seller to change his mind—especially if money hasn't changed hands yet. Legally, can't either party cancel a sale for any reason or no reason before money changes hands? That's what I have always heard: no consideration=no binding contract.

 

I need to mull things over for a day or so.

 

As an aside, I would like people to know why I listed this particular book. I listed it because I decided that I no longer want to collect comics that depict violence against women in a realistic way. I have been extremely distraught lately about a real-life case of violence against a woman in my area, a case that I've been following in the news and through another forum. It is a heartbreaking case. I'm not condemning anyone for collecting crime comics, but there are certain covers that I don't want to look at now.

[ThothAmon]

Since you asked ... You are correct about consideration and I don't believe a Court would ever require you to sell the book. That said it is a requirement on these boards to follow through and if you wish to remain an upstanding member you will do so. Dr. Wertham is smiling right now wherever he wound up.

[Straw-Man]

the consideration is the amount agreed upon; doesn't have to have "changed hands." as defense counsel, i, in writing, agree to settle with the claimant for 100K--that amount is the "consideration" for the contract. if he or i try to back out, the aggrieved party moves for enforcement of the contract, and wins. doesn't matter that nothing yet "changed hands."