General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean 29 29

[Bird]

On 12/17/2021 at 10:53 PM, A.K. - SilverAgeComicsUK said:

Pictures for now but I trust the owners. They aren’t hiding anything 

I think there is a reason big consignment services like mcs require books to be in hand. Only bad things can happen if you are selling books not in hand, they need to be shipped and packed by someone other than you, damage can occur or maybe occurred even when they were returning books to bags after photos were taken.

Books in hand, new photo used, books stay in hand until sold or returned to consignor unsold. Books packed and shipped by you as well.

That would be my MO on offering consignments. 

[GAMBIT]

On 12/17/2021 at 8:11 PM, alecholland said:

In your thread you mentioned that you are trying to start a small business. If you are sincere about this endeavor then I would like to offer some advice.

Stop selling comics for a while. 

Take some time out and learn how to grade more accurately and learn about the market and realistic price ranges for comics. I would suggest purchasing an Overstreet grading guide. Study it carefully. Look at what defects are allowed at each grade level. If you see that a spine split isn't allowed in a comic graded higher than 4.0, then you probably don't have a 6.5 - 7.0 book. At best you have a 4.0 comic. In all honesty, I have had two eye surgeries on my right eye in the last two months and can only see blurry shapes and colors in my right eye and I could still tell the Avenger's book was way over-graded. If I were selling that book, from the photos you posted, I would have listed it at 2.5 - 3.0 due to the spine split in addition to the other very noticeable defects. 

In addition to buying a grading guide, you should look at other CGC graded books. If I am planning on selling a book, and think it is in 7.0 condition, I compare it to other CGC graded 7.0 books either in my own collection or online. That's in addition to checking my Overstreet grading guide. You could also post scans of books here on the boards in the Buddy can you spare a grade section. Sometimes, board members catch something I may have missed even though I've looked at the book multiple times. There is a wealth of knowledge on these boards and I try to take advantage of it whenever I have any doubts about a grade.

For pricing I don't personally use GPA, however I don't usually sell any pricey books and I am not a dealer. If I were a dealer and if I were selling expensive key issues, I would definitely use GPA to get an idea of realistic selling prices. I would eliminate the highest and lowest sales and probably price my book somewhere just under the average selling price. I often use Ebay sold prices when I price books I am planning to sell. Again, I eliminate the anomalies. If I see an average selling price of say $150 on Ebay, I deduct the selling and final value fees Ebay charges and usually price my book somewhere just under that.

You are supposed to be the professional. If you are selling something on consignment as the professional, it is your responsibility to grade and price the book accurately. If the person consigning the book to you thinks they have a 6.5 - 7.0 book, it is your job to inform them they don't and give them a realistic idea of the value. I believe you knew it wasn't a 6.5 - 7.0 book which reflects poorly on you and your credibility as the owner of a small business. It makes potential customers like me make a mental note of your board name and associate that name with over-grading and over-pricing. That is not good.

I guess the bottom line is, whenever I personally sell a comic either here on the boards or Ebay, I always ask myself, "would I be happy if I purchased this book? Would I feel like it had been graded accurately? Do I believe the price is fair? Would I buy from me again?" In every aspect of your business, again if you are sincere, you need to be asking yourself these questions. You need to try and exceed your customers expectations if possible, but first you need to stop selling comics and do the work of learning about the comic industry, grading accurately and pricing fairly.

That's my 2 cents although it could be completely worthless.

Extremely accurate and sound advice that (sadly)  I'm sure fell on deaf ears.  

From what I've seen and read lately with this seller. I don't see consignments going very far in his "career".  Definitely not the way issues are handled, inability to follow seller rules, and the complete lack of the grading standards. 

Just my 2 cents.  

[thehumantorch]

On 12/17/2021 at 8:53 PM, A.K. - SilverAgeComicsUK said:

Pictures for now but I trust the owners. They aren’t hiding anything 

What if the owner misses restoration?  What if there are missing pages or pieces?  What if there are defects that aren't obvious in the pictures?  What if the owner doesn't ship?  What if he decides he wants to cancel the deal?  What if the books are damaged during shipping?  What if the buyer wants to return the books?

So much can go wrong when you haven't examined the books and don't have them in your possession and aren't in control of everything.   And while you may trust the owners their grading skills and prices indicate they don't know what they're doing or they can't be trusted.

 

 

[A.K. - SilverAgeComicsUK]

On 12/19/2021 at 6:06 PM, thehumantorch said:

What if the owner misses restoration?  What if there are missing pages or pieces?  What if there are defects that aren't obvious in the pictures?  What if the owner doesn't ship?  What if he decides he wants to cancel the deal?  What if the books are damaged during shipping?  What if the buyer wants to return the books?

So much can go wrong when you haven't examined the books and don't have them in your possession and aren't in control of everything.   And while you may trust the owners their grading skills and prices indicate they don't know what they're doing or they can't be trusted.

 

 

The owner is a collector and hobbyist. All these risks are accounted for. Within 2 weeks we would accept any return with a valid reason. Rest assured. I know al this advice is for the good of the community 

[KCOComics]

On 12/19/2021 at 1:32 PM, A.K. - SilverAgeComicsUK said:

The owner is a collector and hobbyist. All these risks are accounted for. Within 2 weeks we would accept any return with a valid reason. Rest assured. I know al this advice is for the good of the community 

 

Candidly, I think you need to change your business model. Buy the books outright at a price you feel you can resell for profit, or insist that you hold consignment books. 

You don't see allot of dealers who consign books without possession.  If the consigner misses resto or doesn't ship them safely or over grades, no one is going to blame him. They are going to blame the guy they bought the books from. 

I know ComicConnect will consign without possession because they don't have storage for all their consignments. It's caused allot of headaches for all parties.  But I also know if I buy from comic Connect and things go wrong, they'll stand behind everything. The risk is minimal to the buyer (besides inconvenience). You have to earn that trust and reputation. 

This isn't a criticism or an attack. Honestly, I'm very supportive of anyone starting their own business. I also want as many sellers here as possible. But you gotta give people confidence that they can buy from you. 

[A.K. - SilverAgeComicsUK]

On 12/19/2021 at 10:46 PM, KCOComics said:

 

Candidly, I think you need to change your business model. Buy the books outright at a price you feel you can resell for profit, or insist that you hold consignment books. 

You don't see allot of dealers who consign books without possession.  If the consigner misses resto or doesn't ship them safely or over grades, no one is going to blame him. They are going to blame the guy they bought the books from. 

I know ComicConnect will consign without possession because they don't have storage for all their consignments. It's caused allot of headaches for all parties.  But I also know if I buy from comic Connect and things go wrong, they'll stand behind everything. The risk is minimal to the buyer (besides inconvenience). You have to earn that trust and reputation. 

This isn't a criticism or an attack. Honestly, I'm very supportive of anyone starting their own business. I also want as many sellers here as possible. But you gotta give people confidence that they can buy from you. 

I appreciate this. Never had an issue with a sale ever. And I’m reasonable as is everyone that consigns with me. We will happily reason with grades and offers as well as potential refunds/ partial refunds if there is a case for it. 
 

thank you for the advice though it is appreciated. Support small business’

[thehumantorch]

On 12/19/2021 at 11:32 AM, A.K. - SilverAgeComicsUK said:

The owner is a collector and hobbyist. All these risks are accounted for. Within 2 weeks we would accept any return with a valid reason. Rest assured. I know al this advice is for the good of the community 

You are correct that I have no problem with you personally and my posts are for the good of the community and for the good of you personally and your reputation.

I will point out that you originally posted no returns on these books and later commented that you didn’t want returns because shipping was expensive.  Selling books that you haven’t carefully examined and graded will likely result in issues and returns.  And listing those books here at the assigned grades will certainly harm your reputation as a seller.

[telerites]

I know I have been around since 2007 but don't remember this being brought up.  

Has there been consideration to having a separate auction thread in the Sales Forum?  I remember modifying auction rules and when I saw the separating Gold and Silver, it made me curious.

 

[PKJ]

On 12/19/2021 at 7:03 PM, thehumantorch said:

You are correct that I have no problem with you personally and my posts are for the good of the community and for the good of you personally and your reputation.

I will point out that you originally posted no returns on these books and later commented that you didn’t want returns because shipping was expensive.  Selling books that you haven’t carefully examined and graded will likely result in issues and returns.  And listing those books here at the assigned grades will certainly harm your reputation as a seller.

Also kept the books up well after it was pointed out all the issues, grading, pricing, shipping terms, in hand etc. Those actions do not build trust. 

[badback83]

On 12/20/2021 at 8:34 PM, PKJ said:

Also kept the books up well after it was pointed out all the issues, grading, pricing, shipping terms, in hand etc. Those actions do not build trust. 

The 8.5 Giant Size is also listed on eBay.

[KPR Comics]

Poof, thread gone.

Edited December 21, 2021 by KPR Comics

[crassus]

On 12/20/2021 at 8:34 PM, PKJ said:

Also kept the books up well after it was pointed out all the issues, grading, pricing, shipping terms, in hand etc. Those actions do not build trust. 

Yes exactly, I'm normally inclined to give sellers the benefit of the doubt, mistakes happen, people forget things, even when they are trying, but at this point I don't think we should give the benefit of the doubt. How, after all that accumulated drama precisely about the perils of consignment, the seller would not notice or make sure about a big 4 figure book, seems pretty obviously in bad faith. There is not much that can be done about it, except to call it out and to "buyer beware", and imo the source of this kind of thing is typically newcomers who bring their bad habits with them from other social media, next thing I'm sure will be dancing sellers from Tik Tok. 

[KCOComics]

On 12/21/2021 at 10:27 AM, crassus said:

Yes exactly, I'm normally inclined to give sellers the benefit of the doubt, mistakes happen, people forget things, even when they are trying, but at this point I don't think we should give the benefit of the doubt. How, after all that accumulated drama precisely about the perils of consignment, the seller would not notice or make sure about a big 4 figure book, seems pretty obviously in bad faith. There is not much that can be done about it, except to call it out and to "buyer beware", and imo the source of this kind of thing is typically newcomers who bring their bad habits with them from other social media, next thing I'm sure will be dancing sellers from Tik Tok. 

I'm in the same boat. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt and actually feel bad about the piling on. But before that thread was closed, someone posted a Facebook ad of him running a Christmas sale with those same Avengers books on FB. That wasn't a consigner or a mistake, it was just blatantly disregarding the rules here. 

I also find the consigner thing very off-putting. Why would people who are savvy enough to list books for sale on ebay need to consign with him?  If they really want to move the books for comparable fees, why not work with a known dealer or auction?  The entire situation just feels off. 

 

[PKJ]

On 12/21/2021 at 11:01 AM, KCOComics said:

I'm in the same boat. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt and actually feel bad about the piling on. But before that thread was closed, someone posted a Facebook ad of him running a Christmas sale with those same Avengers books on FB. That wasn't a consigner or a mistake, it was just blatantly disregarding the rules here. 

I also find the consigner thing very off-putting. Why would people who are savvy enough to list books for sale on ebay need to consign with him?  If they really want to move the books for comparable fees, why not work with a known dealer or auction?  The entire situation just feels off. 

 

I am by no means lumping this guy in with this statement below, but sort of a rant on the new sellers emerging on the "newer" platforms.

This has been something that has come on fast in the past year. Mostly on the social media platforms, we have always had new folks enter buying then eventually selling  and that is healthy. But there has been a glut of consigners with very little knowledge of the hobby. What pushed me away from interacting with the "big": name consigners on Instagram is a little of what went down here, no real indepth knowledge of the items they are selling, it is just a widget to them. The live sales are the best, you have a split screen with the consigner on top shouting at his clients and bidders all the rules. If they have something and you ask for a different picture or interior pics they come off as being annoyed. I have seen that especially when they host live events, when hot books are being presented they ignore questions regarding condition until they see someone claim it. 

 

This is probably not the place for sellers to "figure it out" unless they are really willing to follow feedback.

[crassus]

On 12/21/2021 at 11:09 AM, PKJ said:

I am by no means lumping this guy in with this statement below, but sort of a rant on the new sellers emerging on the "newer" platforms.

This has been something that has come on fast in the past year. Mostly on the social media platforms, we have always had new folks enter buying then eventually selling  and that is healthy. But there has been a glut of consigners with very little knowledge of the hobby. What pushed me away from interacting with the "big": name consigners on Instagram is a little of what went down here, no real indepth knowledge of the items they are selling, it is just a widget to them. The live sales are the best, you have a split screen with the consigner on top shouting at his clients and bidders all the rules. If they have something and you ask for a different picture or interior pics they come off as being annoyed. I have seen that especially when they host live events, when hot books are being presented they ignore questions regarding condition until they see someone claim it. 

 

This is probably not the place for sellers to "figure it out" unless they are really willing to follow feedback.

I think you painted a perfect picture, and I think you could lump the seller in there, another hustler in a big hurry to take people's money but not always with a lot of time to be sure anything turns out right, except of course for the people getting their money. Asking too many questions is the same kind of problem as too many rules, for sellers who can't get their story straight, gets in the way of the money taking part of the deal. 

[KCOComics]

On 12/21/2021 at 11:09 AM, PKJ said:

I am by no means lumping this guy in with this statement below, but sort of a rant on the new sellers emerging on the "newer" platforms.

This has been something that has come on fast in the past year. Mostly on the social media platforms, we have always had new folks enter buying then eventually selling  and that is healthy. But there has been a glut of consigners with very little knowledge of the hobby. What pushed me away from interacting with the "big": name consigners on Instagram is a little of what went down here, no real indepth knowledge of the items they are selling, it is just a widget to them. The live sales are the best, you have a split screen with the consigner on top shouting at his clients and bidders all the rules. If they have something and you ask for a different picture or interior pics they come off as being annoyed. I have seen that especially when they host live events, when hot books are being presented they ignore questions regarding condition until they see someone claim it. 

 

This is probably not the place for sellers to "figure it out" unless they are really willing to follow feedback.

Maybe my confusion about his role as a consigner is because I'm so far removed from sociol media platforms like FB and Instagram. Maybe this is more common place than I realize. 

I'm on LinkedIn if anyone wants to do a fire sale over there! 

[crassus]

On 12/21/2021 at 11:37 AM, KCOComics said:

I'm on LinkedIn if anyone wants to do a fire sale over there! 

Nerd! 

[Red84]

On 12/21/2021 at 9:27 AM, crassus said:

Yes exactly, I'm normally inclined to give sellers the benefit of the doubt, mistakes happen, people forget things, even when they are trying, but at this point I don't think we should give the benefit of the doubt. How, after all that accumulated drama precisely about the perils of consignment, the seller would not notice or make sure about a big 4 figure book, seems pretty obviously in bad faith. There is not much that can be done about it, except to call it out and to "buyer beware", and imo the source of this kind of thing is typically newcomers who bring their bad habits with them from other social media, next thing I'm sure will be dancing sellers from Tik Tok. 

And it took me one minute to search ebay and find it. Just lazy.

[Red84]

My favorite part was when he said the owner of the book did not have HIS consent to post it on ebay. It's not his dam book!!!

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 12/21/2021 at 10:37 AM, KCOComics said:

I'm on LinkedIn if anyone wants to do a fire sale over there! 

How might we distinguish the fire sale from every other fire going on over there?