(attempted) Flip of the Day! 12 12

[jjonahjameson11]

On 10/3/2023 at 2:11 PM, Twanj said:

Yes, I was curious about this too. More than the usual "dealer shuffle." Was this another buyback?

As in, Did Burkey bid on and win his own consignment piece?  

[vodou]

On 10/3/2023 at 2:07 PM, jjonahjameson11 said:

This Travis Charest cover was on Albert Moy's site earlier this year for $9K, then it went to Burkey's site where it sat for a while at $12K.  It was then auctioned at ComicConnect (while still being listed at Burkey's site until CC asked Burkey to remove it from his site) and sold for $11K last month.  Now its back on Burkey's site, but for $11K.

Standard Operating Procedure (SOP).

[KirbyCollector]

On 10/3/2023 at 2:07 PM, jjonahjameson11 said:

When is a sale not a sale???

This Travis Charest cover was on Albert Moy's site earlier this year for $9K, then it went to Burkey's site where it sat for a while at $12K.  It was then auctioned at ComicConnect (while still being listed at Burkey's site until CC asked Burkey to remove it from his site) and sold for $11K last month.  Now its back on Burkey's site, but for $11K.  

[AnkurJ]

On 10/3/2023 at 3:36 PM, vodou said:

Shilling Operating Procedure (SOP).

Fixed it for you.

[Rick2you2]

On 10/5/2023 at 7:50 PM, AnkurJ said:

Fixed it for you.

I still remember the pounding I got for suggesting that prices might be going up due to shilling. 

[barneythecantankerous]

On 10/3/2023 at 7:07 PM, jjonahjameson11 said:

When is a sale not a sale???

This Travis Charest cover was on Albert Moy's site earlier this year for $9K, then it went to Burkey's site where it sat for a while at $12K.  It was then auctioned at ComicConnect (while still being listed at Burkey's site until CC asked Burkey to remove it from his site) and sold for $11K last month.  Now its back on Burkey's site, but for $11K.  

FWIW Travis originally sold this for $3-3.5k back in 2019 and it's been for sale ever since. As it originally sold to Albert, along with a bunch of other covers, which I think he's had a hard time shifting at 3x, as it seems a lot of them are either still for sale or went to other dealers (as this one did).

 

[Dr. Balls]

On 10/8/2023 at 4:35 AM, barneythecantankerous said:

FWIW Travis originally sold this for $3-3.5k back in 2019 and it's been for sale ever since. As it originally sold to Albert, along with a bunch of other covers, which I think he's had a hard time shifting at 3x, as it seems a lot of them are either still for sale or went to other dealers (as this one did).

 

That’s a great piece of information. It’s not a $9k cover. It’s a Charest piece, but the line work, detail and style that you want from him is not really worked in as much on this illustration. Great cover, but there are a lot better examples of his style out there for the same price or less.

[Twanj]

On 10/25/2023 at 11:45 AM, Poboyross said:

Is a year and 8 months considered a flip of the day? I don't know, but I figured I'd submit it anyway.  I had a stack of pieces on consignment last year (won't say where), one of which was a Robertson cover to Wolverine #12.  I had no idea what to ask on most of my pieces, so I was asked what I paid for it...which was $900 a year or two prior.  I needed the funds for car repair....life happens.  It was suggested I ask $2k for it. I followed the advice and was told it sold almost instantly...I don't know that I personally saw it go up on the site for sale.  Now, a little over a year and a half later, here it is again.....for $8500!!!!  Did the buyer decide to sit on it and flip it? Sure feels like it.  Who was the buyer? No idea. I do know that I had a Buscema Avengers page that I proposed with an asking price half of this and was flat out told/refused its listing. 

I do know that I'll never be buying or selling through any dealers ever again....not that any GAF.  

https://www.panelpageart.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=3620&ArtistId=216

You consigned with the dealer who has it now, or another dealer?

That sounds low a year and 8 mos ago, and this looks high now.

Dealer markup is pretty high...

[Fischb1]

On 10/25/2023 at 11:45 AM, BigMookie said:

Is a year and 8 months considered a flip of the day? I don't know, but I figured I'd submit it anyway.  I had a stack of pieces on consignment last year (won't say where), one of which was a Robertson cover to Wolverine #12.  I had no idea what to ask on most of my pieces, so I was asked what I paid for it...which was $900 a year or two prior.  I needed the funds for car repair....life happens.  It was suggested I ask $2k for it. I followed the advice and was told it sold almost instantly...I don't know that I personally saw it go up on the site for sale.  Now, a little over a year and a half later, here it is again.....for $8500!!!!  Did the buyer decide to sit on it and flip it? Sure feels like it.  Who was the buyer? No idea. I do know that I had a Buscema Avengers page that I proposed with an asking price half of this and was flat out told/refused its listing. 

I do know that I'll never be buying or selling through any dealers ever again....not that any GAF.  

https://www.panelpageart.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=3620&ArtistId=216

 

 

So you bought a page for 900, then, by your own admission, flipped it within a year or two for more than double (2k), and this happened before the Covid run-up....then, soon after, all the pieces went up in value and now the buyer is trying to do what you did (flip it for more) and you're resentful? Sounds like sour grapes to me. 

[Michael Browning]

On 10/26/2023 at 12:34 PM, Fischb1 said:

So you bought a page for 900, then, by your own admission, flipped it within a year or two for more than double (2k), and this happened before the Covid run-up....then, soon after, all the pieces went up in value and now the buyer is trying to do what you did (flip it for more) and you're resentful? Sounds like sour grapes to me. 

That’s what this entire thread is.

[Calidream'n]

I see this happening with Stan Yak original art. Poor Russian is trying to make a living and sells his pieces fairly cheap ($400-900). I was lucky to get a gorgeous TMNT piece before some flipper snagged it. I see pieces I passed on for sale on FeeBay at triple their purchase selling prices. 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Calidream'n

[Nexus]

On 10/26/2023 at 9:34 AM, Fischb1 said:

So you bought a page for 900, then, by your own admission, flipped it within a year or two for more than double (2k), and this happened before the Covid run-up....then, soon after, all the pieces went up in value and now the buyer is trying to do what you did (flip it for more) and you're resentful? Sounds like sour grapes to me. 

Your take on this does come off like a case of sour grapes for the consignor. But what I believe the OP was trying to say is that the dealer may have taken the cover on "consignment" and then immediately "sold" it...to himself. At perhaps below market value. And is now flipping it himself 18 months later. At a much higher value. Read his post again.

Or maybe that's not what happened. Whatever the case may be, consignors should have the right to know who bought their art. IMO.

[MyNameIsLegion]

On 10/27/2023 at 3:50 AM, Nexus said:

Your take on this does come off like a case of sour grapes for the consignor. But what I believe the OP was trying to say is that the dealer may have taken the cover on "consignment" and then immediately "sold" it...to himself. At perhaps below market value. And is now flipping it himself 18 months later. At a much higher value. Read his post again.

Or maybe that's not what happened. Whatever the case may be, consignors should have the right to know who bought their art. IMO.

yup. Because no "dealer" has ever taken something on "consignment" from a relatively green collector that trusted the dealer to set the prices only to have the dealer low ball it, buy it, sit on it, and flip it for considerably more. AND STILL TAKE THEIR COMMISSION.  

or we are describing one of the tools of the trade of certain "dealers" 

[Fischb1]

On 10/27/2023 at 4:50 AM, Nexus said:

Your take on this does come off like a case of sour grapes for the consignor. But what I believe the OP was trying to say is that the dealer may have taken the cover on "consignment" and then immediately "sold" it...to himself. At perhaps below market value. And is now flipping it himself 18 months later. At a much higher value. Read his post again.

Or maybe that's not what happened. Whatever the case may be, consignors should have the right to know who bought their art. IMO.

With no proof at all except that the page is for sale again at a higher price? Making the accusation itself is sour grapes. I've sold pieces through dealers that those dealers then had again years later, that's the business. And if consignors insist on knowing who buys their art, all the anonymous buyers that dealers have go away. I'd rather have access to a larger pool of buyers, that's why I sometimes go through a dealer in the first place. 

[Dr. Balls]

On 10/27/2023 at 8:36 AM, Fischb1 said:

With no proof at all except that the page is for sale again at a higher price? Making the accusation itself is sour grapes. I've sold pieces through dealers that those dealers then had again years later, that's the business. And if consignors insist on knowing who buys their art, all the anonymous buyers that dealers have go away. I'd rather have access to a larger pool of buyers, that's why I sometimes go through a dealer in the first place. 

I can only speak from the kiddie-pool end of the OA market, but I agree - there doesn't seem to be much upside to total transparency/disclosure of who-buys-what. I share what I buy on CAF, but that's my choice - I'm not sure I'd want my information being shared beyond that, even on low-dollar stuff. I can imagine the more significant the piece, the less likely someone is going to want to have their information shared.

[BigMookie]

On 10/27/2023 at 3:50 AM, Nexus said:

Your take on this does come off like a case of sour grapes for the consignor. But what I believe the OP was trying to say is that the dealer may have taken the cover on "consignment" and then immediately "sold" it...to himself. At perhaps below market value. And is now flipping it himself 18 months later. At a much higher value. Read his post again.

Or maybe that's not what happened. Whatever the case may be, consignors should have the right to know who bought their art. IMO.

The dealer most definitely did not do that, I know this 100%.  I'll admit its sour grapes but still not for the reason that most are assuming, I don't think.  There's some in the hobby that I've seen, and I figure others do too, that will go around and pick up pieces from regular dealers like who I've dealt with, and also canvas the groups and forums, standard early preview drop emails, buying up as many examples of an artist as possible, soaking up the supply, then put them back out there for multiple times the purchase price and likely actual market value.  My concern wasn't about my dealer at all...but rather another one of the types I described, which I think really throw a wrench in the organic growth of the hobby. I think that was my shock in such a massive price jump when I haven't seen any other examples in the market.  Look, if I sold too early and someone else benefits from an organic market jump, so be it.  I sold my low grade copy of Avengers #1 around the same time at market value.  Now that book is worth at least double.  You can chart it's organic increase over time.
 

In a hobby that does have a lot of upward movement, a lot of new interest lately, its a small group of folks doing what I mentioned above. I don't believe at all that there were any shenanigans going on on the part of my dealer, and I also know Panel Page is up and up. My shock was over such a drastic increase and a gut reaction figuring it was the type of person I described above.  I guess seeing what happens to other Robertson Marvel work, or pages from this run, will tell in time. 

I don't think I have a right to know who bought my artwork though...seems like a client/business privacy thing...even though I'd be torn if I knew it was one of the type of individuals I mentioned, buying up a supply then pumping a price.  I think that was my gut reaction about going through dealers...but in retrospect there's no way to balance that.  They have a bigger reach, but then again you don't know who is purchasing things.  Their position is neutral intermediary as it has to be. That's the only logical tradeoff.  I hope all that made sense. 

Edited October 27, 2023 by BigMookie
addtl info

[cloud cloddie]

On 10/27/2023 at 10:04 AM, BigMookie said:

and I also know Panel Page is up and up.

 

[Unstoppablejayd]

On 10/27/2023 at 1:04 PM, BigMookie said:

The dealer most definitely did not do that, I know this 100%.  I'll admit its sour grapes but still not for the reason that most are assuming, I don't think.  There's some in the hobby that I've seen, and I figure others do too, that will go around and pick up pieces from regular dealers like who I've dealt with, and also canvas the groups and forums, standard early preview drop emails, buying up as many examples of an artist as possible, soaking up the supply, then put them back out there for multiple times the purchase price and likely actual market value.  My concern wasn't about my dealer at all...but rather another one of the types I described, which I think really throw a wrench in the organic growth of the hobby. I think that was my shock in such a massive price jump when I haven't seen any other examples in the market.  Look, if I sold too early and someone else benefits from an organic market jump, so be it.  I sold my low grade copy of Avengers #1 around the same time at market value.  Now that book is worth at least double.  You can chart it's organic increase over time.
 

In a hobby that does have a lot of upward movement, a lot of new interest lately, its a small group of folks doing what I mentioned above. I don't believe at all that there were any shenanigans going on on the part of my dealer, and I also know Panel Page is up and up. My shock was over such a drastic increase and a gut reaction figuring it was the type of person I described above.  I guess seeing what happens to other Robertson Marvel work, or pages from this run, will tell in time. 

I don't think I have a right to know who bought my artwork though...seems like a client/business privacy thing...even though I'd be torn if I knew it was one of the type of individuals I mentioned, buying up a supply then pumping a price.  I think that was my gut reaction about going through dealers...but in retrospect there's no way to balance that.  They have a bigger reach, but then again you don't know who is purchasing things.  Their position is neutral intermediary as it has to be. That's the only logical tradeoff.  I hope all that made sense. 

Don’t discount the possibility that the dealer just bought it at your asking price stuck it in a folio for a few months and then put it out at a higher price. Wolverine covers aren’t cheap and you don’t see many for 2k no matter the artist 

[AnkurJ]

On 10/6/2023 at 12:47 PM, Rick2you2 said:

I still remember the pounding I got for suggesting that prices might be going up due to shilling. 

Most genius people are initially questioned. 

[Rick2you2]

On 11/4/2023 at 8:04 AM, AnkurJ said:

Most genius people are initially questioned. 

So are m***ns , but I think I’ll well enough alone.

Edited November 4, 2023 by Rick2you2