G.A.tor Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 4 hours ago, PopKulture said: Agreed. That's part of the underlying argument implicit in an AF15 vs. Batman 1 throwdown: Spiderman's origin and first appearance against what, Batman's 13th or 14th? A more appropriate match-up might then be Batman 1 versus ASM 1, both the premiere issue of well-deserved solo runs. Or compare books from same era. If batman 1 came out in 1962 I suspect it would look much different (more comparable to an af15 etc) and the comparison criteria would be altered. gino2paulus2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gino2paulus2 Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 6 hours ago, Jaydogrules said: Content wise, AF 15 is a much more significant book than Batman 1, and quite rare in its own right in a 9.2 grade. Nothing crazy about someone preferring that in high grade over a Batman 1. Change the Batman 1 to a Tec 27 and the conversation is different. -J. Not certain if quoting you is a wise choice on my part but here goes ? I do enjoy your posts btw so once again I say this in a light hearted manner I'm not much for arguing but... For the love of cheese brother read the quote!!! ? He said if he were given a choice of the 2 to have!! I'm a low grade guy but even if i wanted the high grade for preference I would TAKE THE BATMAN #1...Sell it...Buy the AF15 in 9.2 and have enough left over to buy 20 more copies yes that's right 20 more copies of AF15 in 2.0 condition!!! why? because i would have 200 THOUSAND DOLLARS left do but whatever comics my litttle heart desires (after getting my 9.2 AF15!!) Sure I like All-American #61 better than many books and it's pretty tough as well but I wouldn't TAKE IT over the Batman 1 if given the option. Heck I would choose an Our Flag #5 over many many MEGA keys IF all things were equal but they aren't. There are just too many things you aren't factoring in here. Any man or woman today if offered each of those books in 9.2 taking the AF15 is a silly willy gumbo-drop. Nuff' said. There are already 20 universal copies of AF15 in 9.0 and above and I suspect a handful more 15 years down the road. How many Bat #1s maybe 3 that high? We are talking today and the GA hierarchy but even if we weren't...ugh (tired) Knightsofold 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 1 hour ago, G.A.tor said: Or compare books from same era. If batman 1 came out in 1962 I suspect it would look much different (more comparable to an af15 etc) and the comparison criteria would be altered. I don't see any scenario where a Batman 1 is remotely comparable to an AF 15. ASM 1, yes, if they were released in the same era. AF 15? No chance. Not even as they are now. Batman 1 doesn't sniff the significance of AF 15, irrespective of their different eras of release. That's not a knock against Batman 1. That's a testament to the power of AF 15 IMO. -J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.tor Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 1 minute ago, Jaydogrules said: I don't see any scenario where a Batman 1 is remotely comparable to an AF 15. ASM 1, yes, if they were released in the same era. AF 15? No chance. Not even as they are now. Batman 1 doesn't sniff the significance of AF 15, irrespective of their different eras of release. That's not a knock against Batman 1. That's a testament to the power of AF 15 IMO. -J My point is that batman 1 wouldn't be the same book that was released in 1940 if it was released in 1962. So a comparison can't be made. Two diff books from 2 diff eras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, gino2paulus2 said: Not certain if quoting you is a wise choice on my part but here goes ? I do enjoy your posts btw so once again I say this in a light hearted manner I'm not much for arguing but... For the love of cheese brother read the quote!!! ? He said if he were given a choice of the 2 to have!! I'm a low grade guy but even if i wanted the high grade for preference I would TAKE THE BATMAN #1...Sell it...Buy the AF15 in 9.2 and have enough left over to buy 20 more copies yes that's right 20 more copies of AF15 in 2.0 condition!!! why? because i would have 200 THOUSAND DOLLARS left do but whatever comics my litttle heart desires (after getting my 9.2 AF15!!) Sure I like All-American #61 better than many books and it's pretty tough as well but I wouldn't TAKE IT over the Batman 1 if given the option. Heck I would choose an Our Flag #5 over many many MEGA keys IF all things were equal but they aren't. There are just too many things you aren't factoring in here. Any man or woman today if offered each of those books in 9.2 taking the AF15 is a silly willy gumbo-drop. Nuff' said. There are already 20 universal copies of AF15 in 9.0 and above and I suspect a handful more 15 years down the road. How many Bat #1s maybe 3 that high? We are talking today and the GA hierarchy but even if we weren't...ugh (tired) I think you might be underestimating the allure of owning a nearly top AF 15 copy is to a whole lot of people . And until some other Marvel comic publicly eclipses the $1M mark, it is the top Marvel comic out there. Despite it being more common in most grades, it butts heads price-wise with many GA big boys. That's just a fact. That seems to bother or flummox a lot of GA guys, but that's what it does. But this is not just a value question for me- it's value AND significance. I would love to have even a 9.0 AF 15, let alone a 9.2. The fact that Ghosttown got $460k for his was remarkable, but then, so was his copy. -J. Edited July 12, 2017 by Jaydogrules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 8 minutes ago, G.A.tor said: My point is that batman 1 wouldn't be the same book that was released in 1940 if it was released in 1962. So a comparison can't be made. Two diff books from 2 diff eras. Agreed. Not even sure how AF 15 came into the discussion in a thread like this to be honest. Interesting thought experiment though. -J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.tor Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 4 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said: Agreed. Not even sure how AF 15 came into the discussion in a thread like this to be honest. Interesting thought experiment though. -J. My point too. Why a sa book is being discussed in a ga hierarchy seems "off" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gino2paulus2 Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 48 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said: Agreed. Not even sure how AF 15 came into the discussion in a thread like this to be honest. Interesting thought experiment though. -J. 43 minutes ago, G.A.tor said: My point too. Why a sa book is being discussed in a ga hierarchy seems "off" Well back on point then... So are there any other books from any publishers outside the BIG 2 besides Pep 22, Suspense 3, Fantastic 3, or Archie 1 that make tier 6 if we chose to go with 6 tiers? Is Wonder Comics #1 in there for example? Any books that have fallen out of tier 6 in the past few years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PopKulture Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) 21 hours ago, Knightsofold said: Thanks G.A.tor! I agree with you and changed the list. I have little to no knowledge of Whiz 1 and All American, so their place was good to know. For fun, would any Silver Age rank up in here? Remember, we're not talking the highest grade. I placed Showcase #4 and Amazing Fantasy #15 based on entry levels I've seen. Ranked within the tiers. Low to Mid grades. Tier-1: Action Comics #1 Detective Comics #27 Superman #1 Tier-2 Batman #1 Captain America Comics #1 Action Comics #7 Detective Comics #31 Detective Comics #29 Marvel Comics #1 Whiz Comics #2 (#1) All-Star Comics #8 Tier-3 Action Comics #10 Detective Comics #33 Detective Comics #35 Action Comics #13 Flash Comics #1 All-American Comics #16 More Fun Comics #73 More Fun Comics #52 Detective Comics #38 Wonder Woman #1 Sensation Comics #1 Tier-4 Detective #36 Motion Picture Funnies Weekly #1 Marvel Mystery Comics #9 Adventure Comics #40 Captain America #3 Detective #37 Green Lantern #1 All-Star Comics #3 Good riddance then to the silver age comparisons! Regarding omissions, it's a very DC-centric list. Overwhelmingly. Sure, DC is a golden age juggernaut, but 80% of the list? And all of Tier 3? Pep 22 has rightly been discussed. Whiz 2 has also been addressed, rightly so, but what about Captain Marvel Adventures 1? Used to be a top 20 book. It has certainly fallen from grace. Red Raven 1? Is that once-hallowed Kirby one-shot now less appreciated than every pre-Robin TEC? What about Planet 1, Jumbo 1, Jungle 1 - all long-running, and don't underestimate the importance of Sheena! Submariner 1? Human Torch 2(1)? Both less desirable now than all those Tec's or the first appearance of that favored of heroes, the Sandman? Police Comics 1? I think my biggest question at this point is whether this is somehow intentionally a list of superhero comics. Looking back a few decades, I can't imagine such a list without WDCS 1 as well as FC's 4, 9, and 16! If they've fallen that far out of favor, so be it. I guess I need to retreat back to my cave... Edited July 12, 2017 by PopKulture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComicConnoisseur Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) 13 hours ago, PopKulture said: Looking back a few decades, I can't imagine such a list without WDCS 1 as well as FC's 4, 9, and 16! If they've fallen that far out of favor, so be it. I guess I need to retreat back to my cave... Yes, as most of their audience died off unfortunately. Kind of like EC Comics who once were at the same level as Barks comics. I think another thing that added to the popularity of Barks Ducks and EC Comics was back a few decades ago both Carl Barks and Bill Gaines were alive in the 1980s and 1990s doing comic cons and keeping Barks and EC Comics in the public eye by promoting them. Once they both died both Barks and EC Comics lost their frontmen and since than both EC Comics and Barks comics have dropped dramatically in interest. Edited July 13, 2017 by ComicConnoisseur 1950's war comics 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabats Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 That was before my time as a collector. But as a "relatively" newbie collector (5 years collecting as an adult), my impression has been that EC is "hot". Not like it has any mega keys competing with GA DC superhero books. But the random pre-code issues (especially horror) seem to have strong demand for them. Were these EC books in higher demand in the 80s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lou_fine Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 15 hours ago, PopKulture said: Pep 22 has rightly been discussed. Discussed from what perspective? Everybody seems to agree that it belongs in one of these top tiers, but still don't see it anywhere except for one mention that it might be a Tier 6 book. Personally, I would take it over any of the books listed in Tier 4 or even Tier 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gino2paulus2 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 14 minutes ago, lou_fine said: Discussed from what perspective? Everybody seems to agree that it belongs in one of these top tiers, but still don't see it anywhere except for one mention that it might be a Tier 6 book. Personally, I would take it over any of the books listed in Tier 4 or even Tier 3. Yeah if it was me that was a total typo I meant to say any books besides those 4 I listed makes it into any of the 6 tiers if we were agreeing with 6. I too would put Pep 22 in tier 3 maybe even 2!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lou_fine Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 5 minutes ago, gino2paulus2 said: Yeah if it was me that was a total typo I meant to say any books besides those 4 I listed makes it into any of the 6 tiers if we were agreeing with 6. I too would put Pep 22 in tier 3 maybe even 2!! Oh, I see....then we are in perfect agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat-Man_America Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Having done a cursory browse of this thread all I can say is that it desperately needs a no more tiers formula. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago Boy Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) Question : If one of the Cap 1's discussed above is put up for sale and sells for 1M does that jettison it into Tier 1 ?? Edited July 13, 2017 by Chicago Boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfcityduck Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 8 hours ago, Cat-Man_America said: Having done a cursory browse of this thread all I can say is that it desperately needs a no more tiers formula. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gino2paulus2 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 8 hours ago, Cat-Man_America said: Having done a cursory browse of this thread all I can say is that it desperately needs a no more tiers formula. 29 minutes ago, sfcityduck said: ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 3 hours ago, Chicago Boy said: Question : If one of the Cap 1's discussed above is put up for sale and sells for 1M does that jettison it into Tier 1 ?? It already is. "Tier 1" can't be and isn't just composed of DC. -J. ComicConnoisseur 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfcityduck Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 20 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said: It already is. "Tier 1" can't be and isn't just composed of DC. -J. Spitting against the wind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
