Are prices still climbing or have they eased up a bit??? 43 43

[William-James88]

On 12/26/2021 at 9:43 PM, Microchip said:

A year in the life of SS #3 9.6

A nice big peak, and an accompanying fall, but still finishing at 200% from where it started.

Dec 2020 $5,622

May 2021 $21,251

July 2021 $13,750

Dec 2021 $11,200

Oh man, this is hilarious, those wandavision Mephisto memes actually worked.

[lou_fine]

On 12/27/2021 at 9:18 PM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

(For example, my Silver Surfer #4 9.6 WP cost me "only" $4,500 -- so again, considering the whole set I like where I sit.)

I hope this context is helpful for anyone who wants to understand how a collector like me thinks.

Definitly like the way you think because for a collector (especially in the case of a longer term collector) it's not so much about trying to time the market, but really more about spending time in the market. 

Although you certainly can't win them all when buying at an aggressive clip, it looks like you definitely won out on the Silver Surfer 4 with its all-time classic cover and a book that I personally think is better than Surfer 3 and will continue to increase in value at a faster clip going forward.    

Edited December 28, 2021 by lou_fine

[Microchip]

On 12/28/2021 at 4:18 PM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

 

Hello, since it's getting some attention I figured I would raise my hand as the guy who dropped over $20K on that Silver Surfer #3 back in May.

I've been upgrading the Silver Surfer run from 9.4 to 9.6 WP, and #3 was one of the toughest in the run even before people started speculating wildly about Mephisto.  I knew I was buying in the midst of a run-up, but here's the thing -- I also knew that I had a 9.4 WP undercopy to sell.

I am a collector, not a speculator, by which I mean I buy to hold, not to flip.  Of course I would like to buy each book as low as I can and sell as high as I can, but I don't get too caught up in the economics of a specific purchase, I think about the overall "portfolio" and I can feel just fine with aggressive purchases if I like how the collection is performing in the bigger picture.

So, here's the full context (and the math) on my Silver Surfer #3 saga this year:

• I bought my 9.4 WP copy (raw) for $240 back in 2003.  I had it pressed and graded in 2017, so all-in I was into the book for $306.40.
• I then bid big on the 9.6 WP copy in May, and won it for $21,251.  I sure wish I'd won it for $15K or even $18K, but I was just happy to have the book.
• I immediately listed my 9.4 WP copy for sale, and with a little patience I was able to sell it in August for $8,464 (net of fees).  That's nearly 27 times my original investment.

So the way I see it, I put up a total of $21,251 + 306.40 - $8,464 = $13,093.40 to own a 9.6 WP.  That's well within the range of where the market seems to be right now, plus I would point out that the comps listed above do not have white pages and that was a must-have for me.  Finally, I believe that it's quite likely this book will climb again in the future.  Mephisto will almost certainly have his day in the MCU eventually.  Overall I feel good about the investment.

While I wish it were possible to always nail the timing on the buy side and the sell side, the simple fact is I am buying books at such an aggressive clip that I can't get hung up on any one purchase, any more than a poker player can focus on a single hand when they're playing hundreds or thousands of them.  (For example, my Silver Surfer #4 9.6 WP cost me "only" $4,500 -- so again, considering the whole set I like where I sit.)

I hope this context is helpful for anyone who wants to understand how a collector like me thinks.

The reality is the $20k result would of prompted a few guys to wrestle their no3's from their collection, and bring to the auction blocks.   Would they of appeared on the market without the result of your purchase?   No.3 is easily the least traded book in the run 9.2 and up.   I personally waited years for a high-grade copy, and just grabbed them when they appeared.   And at the time, what was nose watering prices.   So we all do what we felt right doing at the time.   Looking back, 2022 and beyond could be drought.

And the book you got, was the Slobidan copy, old label...

The 9.8's are still banking around the $40k mark, so your price point isn't bad.  I kind of think the Dec 2021 sale was a fortunate pickup for the buyer.   There simply isn't an unlimited supply of this book in grade.

And to prove the point, this fugly 9.8 still got $37k!!! 

[alexgross.com]

On 12/27/2021 at 9:18 PM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

 

Hello, since it's getting some attention I figured I would raise my hand as the guy who dropped over $20K on that Silver Surfer #3 back in May.

I've been upgrading the Silver Surfer run from 9.4 to 9.6 WP, and #3 was one of the toughest in the run even before people started speculating wildly about Mephisto.  I knew I was buying in the midst of a run-up, but here's the thing -- I also knew that I had a 9.4 WP undercopy to sell.

I am a collector, not a speculator, by which I mean I buy to hold, not to flip.  Of course I would like to buy each book as low as I can and sell as high as I can, but I don't get too caught up in the economics of a specific purchase, I think about the overall "portfolio" and I can feel just fine with aggressive purchases if I like how the collection is performing in the bigger picture.

So, here's the full context (and the math) on my Silver Surfer #3 saga this year:

• I bought my 9.4 WP copy (raw) for $240 back in 2003.  I had it pressed and graded in 2017, so all-in I was into the book for $306.40.
• I then bid big on the 9.6 WP copy in May, and won it for $21,251.  I sure wish I'd won it for $15K or even $18K, but I was just happy to have the book.
• I immediately listed my 9.4 WP copy for sale, and with a little patience I was able to sell it in August for $8,464 (net of fees).  That's nearly 27 times my original investment.

So the way I see it, I put up a total of $21,251 + 306.40 - $8,464 = $13,093.40 to own a 9.6 WP.  That's well within the range of where the market seems to be right now, plus I would point out that the comps listed above do not have white pages and that was a must-have for me.  Finally, I believe that it's quite likely this book will climb again in the future.  Mephisto will almost certainly have his day in the MCU eventually.  Overall I feel good about the investment.

While I wish it were possible to always nail the timing on the buy side and the sell side, the simple fact is I am buying books at such an aggressive clip that I can't get hung up on any one purchase, any more than a poker player can focus on a single hand when they're playing hundreds or thousands of them.  (For example, my Silver Surfer #4 9.6 WP cost me "only" $4,500 -- so again, considering the whole set I like where I sit.)

I hope this context is helpful for anyone who wants to understand how a collector like me thinks.

thank you for this lou! it is indeed worthwhile to hear from a top tier, selective collector about their buying process. 

i also want to chime in and second (or third) the fact that SS3 is indeed the hardest of the surfers to find in high grade with WHITE PAGES, which are a must have for collectors like myself, and Lou here. for me, the triumvirate of surfer 1, 3 and 4 was always a must have in high grade with white pages. the others, not so much. 

[buttock]

On 12/27/2021 at 10:18 PM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

 

Hello, since it's getting some attention I figured I would raise my hand as the guy who dropped over $20K on that Silver Surfer #3 back in May.

I've been upgrading the Silver Surfer run from 9.4 to 9.6 WP, and #3 was one of the toughest in the run even before people started speculating wildly about Mephisto.  I knew I was buying in the midst of a run-up, but here's the thing -- I also knew that I had a 9.4 WP undercopy to sell.

I am a collector, not a speculator, by which I mean I buy to hold, not to flip.  Of course I would like to buy each book as low as I can and sell as high as I can, but I don't get too caught up in the economics of a specific purchase, I think about the overall "portfolio" and I can feel just fine with aggressive purchases if I like how the collection is performing in the bigger picture.

So, here's the full context (and the math) on my Silver Surfer #3 saga this year:

• I bought my 9.4 WP copy (raw) for $240 back in 2003.  I had it pressed and graded in 2017, so all-in I was into the book for $306.40.
• I then bid big on the 9.6 WP copy in May, and won it for $21,251.  I sure wish I'd won it for $15K or even $18K, but I was just happy to have the book.
• I immediately listed my 9.4 WP copy for sale, and with a little patience I was able to sell it in August for $8,464 (net of fees).  That's nearly 27 times my original investment.

So the way I see it, I put up a total of $21,251 + 306.40 - $8,464 = $13,093.40 to own a 9.6 WP.  That's well within the range of where the market seems to be right now, plus I would point out that the comps listed above do not have white pages and that was a must-have for me.  Finally, I believe that it's quite likely this book will climb again in the future.  Mephisto will almost certainly have his day in the MCU eventually.  Overall I feel good about the investment.

While I wish it were possible to always nail the timing on the buy side and the sell side, the simple fact is I am buying books at such an aggressive clip that I can't get hung up on any one purchase, any more than a poker player can focus on a single hand when they're playing hundreds or thousands of them.  (For example, my Silver Surfer #4 9.6 WP cost me "only" $4,500 -- so again, considering the whole set I like where I sit.)

I hope this context is helpful for anyone who wants to understand how a collector like me thinks.

I appreciate you sharing this.  So much of the discussion on these boards is focused on the financials of collecting.  While that's important, there are many of us who aren't nearly as concerned with price as with getting the right copy of the right book.  That's what makes us collectors.  Congrats on getting the copy you wanted. 

[Ryan.]

On 12/27/2021 at 9:28 PM, StingerMcK said:

I've noticed some more cooling on TMNT. I have #1 5th printing saved as an eBay search. Raws have been selling for $100-$150. Last few weeks, several raws have sold for $30-$50.

The inflated prices on 4th and 5th prints never made sense. 

[zosocane]

On 12/28/2021 at 12:18 AM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

 

Hello, since it's getting some attention I figured I would raise my hand as the guy who dropped over $20K on that Silver Surfer #3 back in May.

I've been upgrading the Silver Surfer run from 9.4 to 9.6 WP, and #3 was one of the toughest in the run even before people started speculating wildly about Mephisto.  I knew I was buying in the midst of a run-up, but here's the thing -- I also knew that I had a 9.4 WP undercopy to sell.

I am a collector, not a speculator, by which I mean I buy to hold, not to flip.  Of course I would like to buy each book as low as I can and sell as high as I can, but I don't get too caught up in the economics of a specific purchase, I think about the overall "portfolio" and I can feel just fine with aggressive purchases if I like how the collection is performing in the bigger picture.

So, here's the full context (and the math) on my Silver Surfer #3 saga this year:

• I bought my 9.4 WP copy (raw) for $240 back in 2003.  I had it pressed and graded in 2017, so all-in I was into the book for $306.40.
• I then bid big on the 9.6 WP copy in May, and won it for $21,251.  I sure wish I'd won it for $15K or even $18K, but I was just happy to have the book.
• I immediately listed my 9.4 WP copy for sale, and with a little patience I was able to sell it in August for $8,464 (net of fees).  That's nearly 27 times my original investment.

So the way I see it, I put up a total of $21,251 + 306.40 - $8,464 = $13,093.40 to own a 9.6 WP.  That's well within the range of where the market seems to be right now, plus I would point out that the comps listed above do not have white pages and that was a must-have for me.  Finally, I believe that it's quite likely this book will climb again in the future.  Mephisto will almost certainly have his day in the MCU eventually.  Overall I feel good about the investment.

While I wish it were possible to always nail the timing on the buy side and the sell side, the simple fact is I am buying books at such an aggressive clip that I can't get hung up on any one purchase, any more than a poker player can focus on a single hand when they're playing hundreds or thousands of them.  (For example, my Silver Surfer #4 9.6 WP cost me "only" $4,500 -- so again, considering the whole set I like where I sit.)

I hope this context is helpful for anyone who wants to understand how a collector like me thinks.

Lou, you manned up twice, not just in executing the purchase back in May, but in sharing with the community your thought process on the big purchase.  In 10 years you will have another healthy ROI, because the MCU is going to be doing the same thing into the 2030s.  That's the beauty of being collector-investors in this hobby (who are in it for the long term), and not investor-speculators or outright speculators (who are in it often for a year or less (frequently much less)). 

[MatterEaterLad]

On 12/27/2021 at 10:18 PM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

 

Hello, since it's getting some attention I figured I would raise my hand as the guy who dropped over $20K on that Silver Surfer #3 back in May.

I've been upgrading the Silver Surfer run from 9.4 to 9.6 WP, and #3 was one of the toughest in the run even before people started speculating wildly about Mephisto.  I knew I was buying in the midst of a run-up, but here's the thing -- I also knew that I had a 9.4 WP undercopy to sell.

I am a collector, not a speculator, by which I mean I buy to hold, not to flip.  Of course I would like to buy each book as low as I can and sell as high as I can, but I don't get too caught up in the economics of a specific purchase, I think about the overall "portfolio" and I can feel just fine with aggressive purchases if I like how the collection is performing in the bigger picture.

So, here's the full context (and the math) on my Silver Surfer #3 saga this year:

• I bought my 9.4 WP copy (raw) for $240 back in 2003.  I had it pressed and graded in 2017, so all-in I was into the book for $306.40.
• I then bid big on the 9.6 WP copy in May, and won it for $21,251.  I sure wish I'd won it for $15K or even $18K, but I was just happy to have the book.
• I immediately listed my 9.4 WP copy for sale, and with a little patience I was able to sell it in August for $8,464 (net of fees).  That's nearly 27 times my original investment.

So the way I see it, I put up a total of $21,251 + 306.40 - $8,464 = $13,093.40 to own a 9.6 WP.  That's well within the range of where the market seems to be right now, plus I would point out that the comps listed above do not have white pages and that was a must-have for me.  Finally, I believe that it's quite likely this book will climb again in the future.  Mephisto will almost certainly have his day in the MCU eventually.  Overall I feel good about the investment.

While I wish it were possible to always nail the timing on the buy side and the sell side, the simple fact is I am buying books at such an aggressive clip that I can't get hung up on any one purchase, any more than a poker player can focus on a single hand when they're playing hundreds or thousands of them.  (For example, my Silver Surfer #4 9.6 WP cost me "only" $4,500 -- so again, considering the whole set I like where I sit.)

I hope this context is helpful for anyone who wants to understand how a collector like me thinks.

Great info.

I think this is the calculus behind some eye-popping prices.

Then those prices set new benchmarks that other buyers sometimes follow, generating more heat, but there's no real fire there. 

[CGC Mike]

On 12/27/2021 at 7:38 PM, Kramerica said:

I know I'm totally OCD but can the OP change the title from 'ease' to 'eased'? I'll buy them a beer. Or three. 

The OP hasn't visited in over 6 months.  I will change the title.

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

On 12/28/2021 at 9:26 AM, CGC Mike said:

The OP hasn't visited in over 6 months.  I will change the title.

Interesting. The OP flashed thru the boards and then was gone, leaving behind an interesting thread with a title that’s like fingernails on a chalkboard.

thanks for putting us out of our misery, CGC Mike

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 12/28/2021 at 12:26 PM, CGC Mike said:

The OP hasn't visited in over 6 months.  I will change the title.

[chrisco37]

On 12/28/2021 at 12:18 AM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

 

Hello, since it's getting some attention I figured I would raise my hand as the guy who dropped over $20K on that Silver Surfer #3 back in May.

I've been upgrading the Silver Surfer run from 9.4 to 9.6 WP, and #3 was one of the toughest in the run even before people started speculating wildly about Mephisto.  I knew I was buying in the midst of a run-up, but here's the thing -- I also knew that I had a 9.4 WP undercopy to sell.

I am a collector, not a speculator, by which I mean I buy to hold, not to flip.  Of course I would like to buy each book as low as I can and sell as high as I can, but I don't get too caught up in the economics of a specific purchase, I think about the overall "portfolio" and I can feel just fine with aggressive purchases if I like how the collection is performing in the bigger picture.

So, here's the full context (and the math) on my Silver Surfer #3 saga this year:

• I bought my 9.4 WP copy (raw) for $240 back in 2003.  I had it pressed and graded in 2017, so all-in I was into the book for $306.40.
• I then bid big on the 9.6 WP copy in May, and won it for $21,251.  I sure wish I'd won it for $15K or even $18K, but I was just happy to have the book.
• I immediately listed my 9.4 WP copy for sale, and with a little patience I was able to sell it in August for $8,464 (net of fees).  That's nearly 27 times my original investment.

So the way I see it, I put up a total of $21,251 + 306.40 - $8,464 = $13,093.40 to own a 9.6 WP.  That's well within the range of where the market seems to be right now, plus I would point out that the comps listed above do not have white pages and that was a must-have for me.  Finally, I believe that it's quite likely this book will climb again in the future.  Mephisto will almost certainly have his day in the MCU eventually.  Overall I feel good about the investment.

While I wish it were possible to always nail the timing on the buy side and the sell side, the simple fact is I am buying books at such an aggressive clip that I can't get hung up on any one purchase, any more than a poker player can focus on a single hand when they're playing hundreds or thousands of them.  (For example, my Silver Surfer #4 9.6 WP cost me "only" $4,500 -- so again, considering the whole set I like where I sit.)

I hope this context is helpful for anyone who wants to understand how a collector like me thinks.

Thanks for posting.  Gives a brand new perspective on that particular sale.  

As for the bolded part, this is what I consider myself as well.  Sure, I bought some books back in the day as spec books (but nothing too crazy), but I mainly collect.  It seems to me that most people are "afraid" to set a GPA high or "afraid" of not getting the best deal possible.  Of course, we all want deals.  But, sometimes you just have to pony up.  

I have a few examples that have worked out great for me (since I hold the books I really want).  I set (at the time I bought it) a GPA high for ASM15 8.0.  That was probably 8 years ago.  And everyone here would be thrilled to buy it for 3-4x what I paid if I sold it.  It wouldn't last 1 minute in a sales thread.   Same thing with ASM 20 8.5 bought at the same time.  Or AF15 2.5 which I tried to get for just under GPA high at the time but couldn't.  

If you plan on holding a book, it usually works out.  Even if you have to pay a premium when you buy it.  

[Gregd]

On 12/28/2021 at 2:54 PM, chrisco37 said:

Thanks for posting.  Gives a brand new perspective on that particular sale.  

As for the bolded part, this is what I consider myself as well.  Sure, I bought some books back in the day as spec books (but nothing too crazy), but I mainly collect.  It seems to me that most people are "afraid" to set a GPA high or "afraid" of not getting the best deal possible.  Of course, we all want deals.  But, sometimes you just have to pony up.  

I have a few examples that have worked out great for me (since I hold the books I really want).  I set (at the time I bought it) a GPA high for ASM15 8.0.  That was probably 8 years ago.  And everyone here would be thrilled to buy it for 3-4x what I paid if I sold it.  It wouldn't last 1 minute in a sales thread.   Same thing with ASM 20 8.5 bought at the same time.  Or AF15 2.5 which I tried to get for just under GPA high at the time but couldn't.  

If you plan on holding a book, it usually works out.  Even if you have to pay a premium when you buy it.  

Completely agree- bought a few silver keys in the late 90s that I know were over guide. Was sweating and regretful at the time… now they sit as trophies (and would be a stretch to buy them now without selling some books). 

[EastEnd1]

I totally agree on the collector vs investor aspect.  In the mid-2000s, I bought a CGC 9.6 Crypt of Terror #17 (Gaines File Copy) for about $11,000.  It was a significant sum at the time because Heritage was flooding the market with Gaines File Copies and the prices on them were tanking.  And they stayed comparatively low for quite a while after that, only truly recovering in the last few years.  I really didn't care at the time because for me, that comic was THE DEFINITIVE EC KEY to own.  Today you rarely see a Gaines book like this for sale... few collectors will part with them, and I'm sure the book would go for multiples of $11k. 

About a year ago, I bought a CGC 8.0  X-Men #4 for $9,500 to complete my high grade run of X-Men.  I knew I was likely overpaying for it at the height of the Wandavision craze.  And sure enough, the book cooled off as soon as the series ended.  Again, it really didn't matter to me... the purchase completed my high grade run of X-Men.  And with time, I'm certain it will appreciate again.

As a collector, I never really think about selling any of my key books down the road other than to perhaps upgrade them... and at that point I'm just really trading one like book for another price wise.  Ultimately, the plan is to leave the keys to my daughter.  I also feel that I've gotten so many GOOD deals over the years that if I overspend on something I really want as a collector today, it's just absorbed into the overall pool of good deals.

 

   

[bpc3qh]

On 12/28/2021 at 4:48 PM, EastEnd1 said:

I totally agree on the collector vs investor aspect.  In the mid-2000s, I bought a CGC 9.6 Crypt of Terror #17 (Gaines File Copy) for about $11,000.  It was a significant sum at the time because Heritage was flooding the market with Gaines File Copies and the prices on them were tanking.  And they stayed comparatively low for quite a while after that, only truly recovering in the last few years.  I really didn't care at the time because for me, that comic was THE DEFINITIVE EC KEY to own.  Today you rarely see a Gaines book like this for sale... few collectors will part with them, and I'm sure the book would go for multiples of $11k. 

About a year ago, I bought a CGC 8.0  X-Men #4 for $9,500 to complete my high grade run of X-Men.  I knew I was likely overpaying for it at the height of the Wandavision craze.  And sure enough, the book cooled off as soon as the series ended.  Again, it really didn't matter to me... the purchase completed my high grade run of X-Men.  And with time, I'm certain it will appreciate again.

As a collector, I never really think about selling any of my key books down the road other than to perhaps upgrade them... and at that point I'm just really trading one like book for another price wise.  Ultimately, the plan is to leave the keys to my daughter.  I also feel that I've gotten so many GOOD deals over the years that if I overspend on something I really want as a collector today, it's just absorbed into the overall pool of good deals.

 

   

Extremely well said. My stories aren't on the same level, but the sentiment is the same and I appreciate it greatly.

[lizards2]

On 12/28/2021 at 9:26 AM, CGC Mike said:

The OP hasn't visited in over 6 months.  I will change the title.

But...., nobody will get all the jokes about the title..., 

[William-James88]

On 12/28/2021 at 12:00 PM, Ryan. said:

The inflated prices on 4th and 5th prints never made sense. 

Agreed, and I think the 4th and 5th print notion is flat out wrong. An extra printing is when a book sells well and they make more to fill the demand. These were reissues done later. That being said, I think the "4th print" stands on its own as a collectible since it is the first cover appearance of Shredder, something that hasn't been really acknowledged when talking of key Turtles comics .

[Sweet Lou 14]

On 12/28/2021 at 11:21 AM, alexgross.com said:

thank you for this lou! it is indeed worthwhile to hear from a top tier, selective collector about their buying process. 

i also want to chime in and second (or third) the fact that SS3 is indeed the hardest of the surfers to find in high grade with WHITE PAGES, which are a must have for collectors like myself, and Lou here. for me, the triumvirate of surfer 1, 3 and 4 was always a must have in high grade with white pages. the others, not so much. 

Really appreciate the kind words Alex.  I also agree about the #1, #3, and #4.  But I have to say #1 is nearly impossible to find in high grade with white pages.  I've been searching a while and I haven't seen one.

Earlier this month I went to town on Surfers in the ComicConnect auction, and I have now completed my 9.6 run.  All but #1 have white pages ... I will keep looking but I didn't want to wait any longer to upgrade the 9.4.

 

Bonus books!

[Microchip]

On 12/29/2021 at 3:21 AM, alexgross.com said:

 

i also want to chime in and second (or third) the fact that SS3 is indeed the hardest of the surfers to find in high grade with WHITE PAGES, which are a must have for collectors like myself, and Lou here. for me, the triumvirate of surfer 1, 3 and 4 was always a must have in high grade with white pages. the others, not so much. 

The story is understood that issue 3 was made with mixed paper stock, which is why you never see the book in white pagers.   An old timer will need to second this, for general verification.

[alexgross.com]

On 12/28/2021 at 6:07 PM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

Really appreciate the kind words Alex.  I also agree about the #1, #3, and #4.  But I have to say #1 is nearly impossible to find in high grade with white pages.  I've been searching a while and I haven't seen one.

Earlier this month I went to town on Surfers in the ComicConnect auction, and I have now completed my 9.6 run.  All but #1 have white pages ... I will keep looking but I didn't want to wait any longer to upgrade the 9.4.

 

Bonus books!

amaaaaazing accomplishment! i see a few of my old copies in there! i hope you find number 1 in 9.6 with WP at some point. if i hear of one, i'll let you know!